> I thought Carthage was totally destroyed and the ground salted?

"the city was then razed and burnt to the ground and the accursed land
covered with salt to ensure its barrenness."

    > So are the new finds also Roman?"

Yes. The only known Punic remains in the area are the docks.

    > Meanwhile, there are other fabulous ancient sights in Tunisia while you
    > wait!

Try Dougga and El Jem.

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:49:16 +0100, "Zichu" <[email protected]> wrote:

    ><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected] oups.com...
    >> Zichu wrote:
    >>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected] oups.com...
    >>> << Malta is culturally more European than North African however the
    >>> culinary culture did not reach Malta.>>
    >>> Could you be a bit more specific. Do the Maltese look and act like, for
    >>> example, the Swedes, Icelandics, Romanians, Basques, Croatians, Catalans
    >>> or
    >>> which part of Europe takes your fancy.
    >> I was trying to get the point across briefly with out going into
    >> detail. What I meant was the Maltese are much more European in general
    >> than North African. It's much more culturally like Spain than it is
    >> Tunisia (which is only 180 miles away).
    >Two points here:
    >1. The Maltese can't be like Europeans because there is no such breed. It is
    >more a political collective noun. Posters here from the New World often make
    >the same mistake which you are making in using "European" as a shorthand
    >label for a large and diverse collection of people with many different
    >racial characteristics. For example, Slavic people have nothing in common
    >with those of Celtic decent. There are very few freckled, red haired
    >Sicilians, Not all that many blonde, blue eyed Basques. Europe is not one
    >homogenous nation, although there are some here who are trying desperately,
    >and fortunately failing, to turn it into "One Size Fits All"

Did anyone say that the Maltese are like Europeans? That appears to be
the statement you just addressed.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > > I thought Carthage was totally destroyed and the ground salted?
    > "the city was then razed and burnt to the ground and the accursed land
    > covered with salt to ensure its barrenness."
    > > So are the new finds also Roman?"
    > Yes. The only known Punic remains in the area are the docks.
    > > Meanwhile, there are other fabulous ancient sights in Tunisia while you
    > > wait!
    > Try Dougga and El Jem.

Gotta 1960's T shirt!

Surreyman
Hundreds of trivia quizzes on travel, geography, history and much more on
http://www.sploofus.com/?ref=surreyman

Well, that doesn't give one much to go on. Unfortunate that you didn't
think to come here or go to the Lonely Planet site before you came to
Malta to ask for recommendations. Likely would have been able to make
your trip more pleasant.

The stone is sandstone, quarried right here in Malta. Folks been using
it for construction for over 5,000 years.

And as far as visiting the continent? I have lived/worked/visited over
40 countries (defined as being there for at least a month) including
about a dozen in Europe, so I have a bit of experience in traveling and
trying out the local cuisine, and have had no difficulties in finding
quality food here.

On 4 Jun 2005 15:35:36 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

    >I just got back from Malta and for anyone who cares to know what I
    >found here it is:
    >On approach to the Malta airport I could not believe my eyes. Europe is
    >similar but different than the US in look but Malta is totally exotic.
    >You have seen pictures of the Holy Land? This is how Malta looks - dry,
    >parched land with scrub bushes, crumbling walls and mud square houses.
    >Here's the scoop:
    >Malta is culturally more European than North African however the
    >culinary culture did not reach Malta. Food is "horrid" to "not really
    >good" and expensive (about 50% to twice as much as in Europe or the
    >US). Housing is cheap, half that of Europe and the US. You can get a
    >nice hotel for like US$20.00. I chose a luxury hotel with a price of
    >about $125.00 but it was not up to the standards of Europe or the US.
    >Food was terrible and bloody expensive.
    >The people - a mix of European and Arabic. All were very nice. No
    >crime. No agression.
    >Would I go back? No, the food sucks.


I have to agree about the food. I probably didn't find any good
restaurants so the food I had was average to poor.

I don't agree about the houses. My impression was of stone houses
which were a sort of lovely buttery colour. I had not seen anything
like them before and I found them very attractive.

Derek

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:27:06 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Derek McBryde
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... I have to agree about the food. I probably didn't find any good
... restaurants so the food I had was average to poor.

No supermarkets in sight ?

... I don't agree about the houses. My impression was of stone houses
... which were a sort of lovely buttery colour. I had not seen anything
... like them before and I found them very attractive.
...
... Derek

I didn't say the houses were unattractive. I meant they look like
houses from the Holy Land, not European.

The houses are made of lime stone and I'm pretty sure they are used in other
med countries too, although I could be wrong. There are fantastic villas and
big houses jotted around Malta made of this brick material.

As for the food, I mentioned 3 great restaurants already. I think its a case
of not going to recommended restaurants. Eating in the hotel or touristy
cafes is a receipie for doom in Malta as happens with most people that go
there. This doesn't mean there is no good food on the island :-). You just
need to find recommendations in guide books/internet. When I went to Rome I
had the same feelings about food. The only good meal I had was when I looked
for a recommedation. Breakfasts/cafes I find never do very good food and it
is pricey (This applies to other cities I have been to). But while I didn't
like the food in Rome, I'm sure someone can tell me great restaurants off
the top of their head, just like I have for Malta.

There are not big supermarkets on the island. The fresh meat/veg/fish is
mostly bought in the streets early in the morning. Little shops host other
items. Neither is home delivery a big thing there. Don't expect to order a
chinsese or indian takeaway. You may be able to get a way with a pizza.
For snacks the Pastizzi shops are everywhere, and while they may not look
inviting for a tourist, there are many delights in here that Maltese people
eat everyday - Probably the reason for the large obeisty problem among
teenagers. .

Malta is not big on coffee either. The likes of Starbucks haven't invaded
yet. I don't drink coffee myself but can understand that the coffee there is
not good.

So as I keep saying bad food is everywhere, not just in Malta. You just
gotta know whats good before you eat out. How about asking here for
reccomendations. Isn't that was rec.travel.europe is for?

Mike





"Derek McBryde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On 4 Jun 2005 15:35:36 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
    >>I just got back from Malta and for anyone who cares to know what I
    >>found here it is:
    >>On approach to the Malta airport I could not believe my eyes. Europe is
    >>similar but different than the US in look but Malta is totally exotic.
    >>You have seen pictures of the Holy Land? This is how Malta looks - dry,
    >>parched land with scrub bushes, crumbling walls and mud square houses.
    >>Here's the scoop:
    >>Malta is culturally more European than North African however the
    >>culinary culture did not reach Malta. Food is "horrid" to "not really
    >>good" and expensive (about 50% to twice as much as in Europe or the
    >>US). Housing is cheap, half that of Europe and the US. You can get a
    >>nice hotel for like US$20.00. I chose a luxury hotel with a price of
    >>about $125.00 but it was not up to the standards of Europe or the US.
    >>Food was terrible and bloody expensive.
    >>The people - a mix of European and Arabic. All were very nice. No
    >>crime. No agression.
    >>Would I go back? No, the food sucks.
    > I have to agree about the food. I probably didn't find any good
    > restaurants so the food I had was average to poor.
    > I don't agree about the houses. My impression was of stone houses
    > which were a sort of lovely buttery colour. I had not seen anything
    > like them before and I found them very attractive.
    > Derek

I do not agree about Celts.
Celts dominates over a large part of Europe
The Tribe BO founded Bologna(italy) but also the word Bohemia comes from BO:
"Zichu" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected] ups.com...
    >> Zichu wrote:
    >>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected] oups.com...
    >>> << Malta is culturally more European than North African however the
    >>> culinary culture did not reach Malta.>>
    >>> Could you be a bit more specific. Do the Maltese look and act like, for
    >>> example, the Swedes, Icelandics, Romanians, Basques, Croatians, Catalans
    >>> or
    >>> which part of Europe takes your fancy.
    >> I was trying to get the point across briefly with out going into
    >> detail. What I meant was the Maltese are much more European in general
    >> than North African. It's much more culturally like Spain than it is
    >> Tunisia (which is only 180 miles away).
    > Two points here:
    > 1. The Maltese can't be like Europeans because there is no such breed. It
    > is more a political collective noun. Posters here from the New World often
    > make the same mistake which you are making in using "European" as a
    > shorthand label for a large and diverse collection of people with many
    > different racial characteristics. For example, Slavic people have nothing
    > in common with those of Celtic decent. There are very few freckled, red
    > haired Sicilians, Not all that many blonde, blue eyed Basques. Europe is
    > not one homogenous nation, although there are some here who are trying
    > desperately, and fortunately failing, to turn it into "One Size Fits All"
    > 2. Many years ago Tunisia, or rather what now approximates to Tunisia, was
    > called Carthage. Despite the fairy story that it was founded by Dido and
    > Aeneas shortly after the Trojan war, it started as a trading outpost of
    > the Phoenicians and the language it's people spoke was Punic. (Latin
    > Poenicus, Punicus, from Poenus, a Carthaginian, from Greek Phoinix,
    > Phoenician). Spain, or the bottom half of it, was also a Phoenician colony
    > having been conquered by Hamilcar Barca, the father of Hannibal.
    > Oddly enough, much of Malta's inheritance is in a direct line from the
    > Phoenicians too. I am sure you must have noticed the large "Hotel
    > Phoenicia" in Valletta by the bus station whilst you where there. It's
    > name is no accident. There is much common history between Malta, Spain and
    > Tunisia.
    >

"tile" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

<< I do not agree about Celts.
Celts dominates over a large part of Europe
The Tribe BO founded Bologna(italy) but also the word Bohemia comes from
BO:>>

In order to solicit an appropriate response, would you care to clarify just
what, exactly, you don't agree with? I mentioned Celts because, in the
Celtic fringe of the UK, where I live, there are many instances of a common
trait which do not appear often in people from other parts of Europe. For
example, many of them are red haired with light skin which freckles easily
in the sun. Is it that which you don't agree with?

Celts, as a general rule, don't look much like Maltese people, although the
odd few pop up. My nephew is of predominantly Irish decent and he married a
dark haired Maltese girl and went to live on the Island. Incidentally, in a
very nice house which he had built himself from local stone but I digress. I
wouldn't be too surprised to see a Maltese baby with red hair and blue eyes
turning up in the next generation or two.

Bologna(Italy), where I have stayed on numerous occasions, is noted for many
fine things but I would hazard a guess that you would need to look long and
hard to uncover any Celtic influence. You would, I suspect, find more
pointers to its Etruscan origins as the town of Felsina and subsequently
it's Roman heritage after it became a colony and renamed Bononia or Bulaggna
in the local dialect. This eventually morphed in the present day name of
Bologna.

The present Region of Emilia used to be called Cisalpine Gaul (Gaul south of
the Alps) and the Gauls where indeed of Celtic decent but of different stock
to the ones I had in mind. More your Hibernian and Caledonian branch of the
family. Perhaps I should have rambled on a bit longer and specified the
genetic mapping of the Celts I used as an example.

Zichu wrote:
    > "tile" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > << I do not agree about Celts.
    > Celts dominates over a large part of Europe
    > The Tribe BO founded Bologna(italy) but also the word Bohemia comes from
    > BO:>>
    >
    > In order to solicit an appropriate response, would you care to clarify just
    > what, exactly, you don't agree with? I mentioned Celts because, in the
    > Celtic fringe of the UK, where I live, there are many instances of a common
    > trait which do not appear often in people from other parts of Europe. For
    > example, many of them are red haired with light skin which freckles easily
    > in the sun. Is it that which you don't agree with?
    >
    > Celts, as a general rule, don't look much like Maltese people, although the
    > odd few pop up. My nephew is of predominantly Irish decent and he married a
    > dark haired Maltese girl and went to live on the Island. Incidentally, in a
    > very nice house which he had built himself from local stone but I digress. I
    > wouldn't be too surprised to see a Maltese baby with red hair and blue eyes
    > turning up in the next generation or two.


The Maltese have amazing blue eyes. I was really stunned by how gorgeous
their eyes were. Also because of the dark golden skin, the eye color
just pops out. (Obviously not all of them but there was quite of number
of them.)

[yellow stone buildings on Malta]
    > The houses are made of lime stone and I'm pretty sure they are used
    > in other med countries too, although I could be wrong. There are
    > fantastic villas and big houses jotted around Malta made of this
    > brick material.

And some way from the Med - Mardin in south-east Turkey is the same
colour for the same reason (including Deir-ul-Zaferan, the "Saffron
Monastery" a few miles out of town, which I believe I may have
mentioned is an expensively disappointing experience).

It isn't just "jotted" (you mean dotted, I think) - the whole of
Valletta is that colour, it's as dramatically yellow as Edinburgh's
New Town is dramatically grey.

I like both Mardin and Valletta as atmospheric places to walk round,
but Mardin wins hands down over the whole of Malta for food quality.
(Malta does however have street bread pudding vendors, and I have
been a bread pudding aficionado since my childhood in England, where
it was popularized as a result of wartime shortages).

    : much of Malta's inheritance is in a direct line from the Phoenicians
    : too.

Hmm. Bread pudding started out a sacrificial offering to Baal, then?
Or maybe it was carried in the panniers of Hannibal's elephants?

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

"Jack Campin - bogus address" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

<< Hmm. Bread pudding started out a sacrificial offering to Baal, then?
Or maybe it was carried in the panniers of Hannibal's elephants?>>

Was that meant to be a whimsical comment, Jack?

There is very little evidence to support your claim that Hannibal took his
elephants to Malta.

There was a shop in Sliema which was famous throughout the British Navy, in
years gone by, for it's Cheesecake but I don't expect that had much to do
with it's ancient links from Phoenicia either

"Zichu" <[email protected]> writes:

    >
    > There was a shop in Sliema which was famous throughout the British Navy, in
    > years gone by, for it's Cheesecake but I don't expect that had much to do
    > with it's ancient links from Phoenicia either

Of course not, cheesecake is the legacy of the glorious Celtic empire.

Des

On 08 Jun 2005 14:03:55 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >"Zichu" <[email protected]> writes:
    >>
    >> There was a shop in Sliema which was famous throughout the British Navy, in
    >> years gone by, for it's Cheesecake but I don't expect that had much to do
    >> with it's ancient links from Phoenicia either
    >Of course not, cheesecake is the legacy of the glorious Celtic empire.

and Esquire?
--
Martin