How would the profession of corporate trainer

or human resource development professional be described in Italian?

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:37:29 -0600, Jenn wrote:

    >How would the profession of corporate trainer
    >or human resource development professional be described in Italian?
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--
Polar

Jenn wrote:

    > How would the profession of corporate trainer
    >
    > or human resource development professional be described in Italian?


First, you had to have comparable figures in Italy. Generally speaking,
the corporate organization in Italy is more traditional and old-style
than you would believe, mainly because big corporations are few and most
work is done either in public organizations or in middle or little
enterprises (often with a familiar administration).

So, first I have to guess what you really mean. If a "corporate trainer"
is a person training people in a corporation, you could describe him/her
as "istruttore d'impresa" or "istruttore aziendale" (istruttrice if a
female).

Human resource seems to be a clever working for the office taking care
of personnel ("ufficio personale", often shorted in "personale").
"Esperto di sviluppo del personale" would be a word-for-word
translation, but it sounds a bit false. Maybe I am not creative enough
    :-)

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]

"Jenn" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > How would the profession of corporate trainer
    > or human resource development professional be described in Italian?

How would they be described in English, without the buzz words? I certainly
have no idea what the job (or is it two different jobs?) entails, so I would
guess that a native Italian speaker would have problems providing a
translation. That is, of course, assuming that an equivalent job even exists
in Italy.

Colin Bignell

Following up to

    >How would they be described in English, without the buzz words?

I glad i'm not the only one completly mistified!
--
Mike Reid
Land of roast meat "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/castile.htm"
(see web to email)

Jenn wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > How would the profession of corporate trainer
    > or human resource development professional be described in Italian?

How would they be described in English would be more to the point.

    > corporate trainer
someone who trains corporations?

or human resource development professional
Would that be like 'personnel'? I like the 'professional' distinction,
Presumably some people do this for fun as well?

In article ,
wrote:

    > "Jenn" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > How would the profession of corporate trainer
    > >
    > > or human resource development professional be described in Italian?
    >
    > How would they be described in English, without the buzz words? I certainly
    > have no idea what the job (or is it two different jobs?) entails, so I would
    > guess that a native Italian speaker would have problems providing a
    > translation. That is, of course, assuming that an equivalent job even exists
    > in Italy.
    >
    > Colin Bignell
    >
    >

they don't train their workers in Italy? managers in Italy are not
trained? people who train these individuals are themselves not trained?
these aren't 'buzz words' -- you just aren't familiar with the profession

I assume there are Italians who are

In article ,
[email protected] (Luca Logi) wrote:

    > Jenn wrote:
    >
    > > How would the profession of corporate trainer
    > >
    > > or human resource development professional be described in Italian?
    >
    >
    > First, you had to have comparable figures in Italy. Generally speaking,
    > the corporate organization in Italy is more traditional and old-style
    > than you would believe, mainly because big corporations are few and most
    > work is done either in public organizations or in middle or little
    > enterprises (often with a familiar administration).
    >
    > So, first I have to guess what you really mean. If a "corporate trainer"
    > is a person training people in a corporation, you could describe him/her
    > as "istruttore d'impresa" or "istruttore aziendale" (istruttrice if a
    > female).
    >
    > Human resource seems to be a clever working for the office taking care
    > of personnel ("ufficio personale", often shorted in "personale").
    > "Esperto di sviluppo del personale" would be a word-for-word
    > translation, but it sounds a bit false. Maybe I am not creative enough
    > :-)


thank you -- human resources is as you suggest those who deal with
hiring, compensation etc but human resource development is the part of
that that deals with training and management development

Jenn wrote:

    > they don't train their workers in Italy? managers in Italy are not
    > trained? people who train these individuals are themselves not trained?
    > these aren't 'buzz words' -- you just aren't familiar with the profession


Well, generally - training managers would be sorely needed in Italy. My
best wishes to your career as a manager trainer in Italy.


--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]

Jenn wrote:

    > thank you -- human resources is as you suggest those who deal with
    > hiring, compensation etc but human resource development is the part of
    > that that deals with training and management development


"Consulente" (an adviser or a person doing consulting work) sounds
better in Italian. I would revise my translations as "Consulente per la
formazione aziendale" and "Consulente per la gestione del personale"
(but I guess that for this you would need to know the complex local law
and tax regulations involved in actually dealing with personnel). For a
better translation you should probably better address a more technical
newsgroup.

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]

In article ,
"John Stolz" wrote:

    > Jenn wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > How would the profession of corporate trainer
    > >
    > > or human resource development professional be described in Italian?
    >
    > How would they be described in English would be more to the point.
    >
    > > corporate trainer
    > someone who trains corporations?
    >
    > or human resource development professional
    > Would that be like 'personnel'? I like the 'professional' distinction,
    > Presumably some people do this for fun as well?
    >
    >
    >



and your point would be [besides I am an orafice of some sort?]

"Jenn" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article ,
    > wrote:
    > > "Jenn" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > How would the profession of corporate trainer
    > > >
    > > > or human resource development professional be described in Italian?
    > >
    > > How would they be described in English, without the buzz words? I
certainly
    > > have no idea what the job (or is it two different jobs?) entails, so I
would
    > > guess that a native Italian speaker would have problems providing a
    > > translation. That is, of course, assuming that an equivalent job even
exists
    > > in Italy.
    > >
    > > Colin Bignell
    > >
    > >
    > they don't train their workers in Italy? managers in Italy are not
    > trained? people who train these individuals are themselves not trained?

I wouldn't bet on it. I get the impression that Italian industry is very
traditional and that can mean that training is done, if at all, on the job
by someone who has done the job before, rather than professional trainers..

    > these aren't 'buzz words' -- you just aren't familiar with the profession

I'm familiar enough with it to be the person you would have to make your
pitch to if you wanted to do training in one of my companies. The fact that
you would even contemplate using the term human resources to describe people
would, however, rule you out immediately.

The point you seem to miss is that, if you want a good translation, rather
than the sort you could get by using a translation programme, you need to
describe the job in enough detail for a non-native speaker to understand
what the job entails. When you move across cultural borders, it is a good
idea to assume that jobs are structured differently and that there is not
necessarily a direct equivalent. If you use words that only someone who is
familiar with the industry is likely to understand, which is as good a
definition of buzz words as I can think of, then you cannot expect to get a
good translation. It would seem to me, that being able to state your message
clearly was a fairly basic requiremet for a trainer.

    > I assume there are Italians who are

I suspect your assumption is misguided.

Colin Bignell

"Jenn" ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
    > How would the profession of corporate trainer
    > or human resource development professional be described in Italian?

Corporate trainer: formatore manageriale, consulente d'impresa (more
generally speaking), esperto in formazione manageriale, esperto in sviluppo
manageriale.

Human resource development professional: esperto in gestione delle risorse
umane, consulente organizzativo (broadly speaking).

Hope this helps.
regards,
Goerz

In article ,
"Goerz" wrote:

    > "Jenn" ha scritto nel messaggio
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > How would the profession of corporate trainer
    > >
    > > or human resource development professional be described in Italian?
    >
    > Corporate trainer: formatore manageriale, consulente d'impresa (more
    > generally speaking), esperto in formazione manageriale, esperto in sviluppo
    > manageriale.
    >
    > Human resource development professional: esperto in gestione delle risorse
    > umane, consulente organizzativo (broadly speaking).
    >
    > Hope this helps.
    > regards,
    > Goerz
    >
    >

grazie