Iraq war is really not unusual compared to most other conflicts
Mar 1st 2007 | 12:22 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Iraq war is really not unusual compared to most other conflicts
Iraq War Recalls Past U.S. Conflicts, Controversies
Published March 1, 2007
"Given all of this country's past wars involving intelligence
failures, tactical and strategic blunders, congressional fights and
popular anger at the president, Iraq and the rising furor over it are
hardly unusual.
Imagine if the House of Representatives had debated a resolution to
authorize the president's use of force in Iraq only after the bombs
were already falling. And what if after the debate, in the middle of
the war, with our troops already in combat, Congress had suddenly
denied such approval?
That is precisely what happened to President Clinton during the
Serbian war of 1999. Neither the Senate nor the House agreed to
sanction the administration's ongoing preemptive bombing campaign
against Serbia. That congressional rebuke prompted liberal commentator
Mark Shields to scoff on "PBS Newshour" that American troops were
"putting their life on the line, and (the Congress) are saying, we're
not with you."
Or consider the national mood in 1968 when the United States suffered
over 16,000 American dead in Vietnam (at that rate, we lost more
troops in three months than we have during the entire four-year Iraqi
war). In response, riots racked the country. Protestors stormed the
Democratic Convention in Chicago. And a polarized country saw both
Robert F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. gunned down.
Nothing in Iraq comes close to the furor over Korea, either. Again,
suppose the following: President Bush conducts an ongoing public fight
with the new commander in Iraq, Gen. David H. Petraeus, who in turn
serially whines to the press that he is being backstabbed by an
unsupportive administration. Bush then fires Petraeus. The general
returns to the United States to tickertape parades, while the
president becomes even more detested as thousands more Americans are
killed.
That scenario sums up the Truman-MacArthur row over the stalemate in
Korea. During that conflict, President Truman fired Secretary of
Defense Louis Johnson; fired Gen. Douglas MacArthur, his senior
military commander in the theater; and faced calls for impeachment
from U.S. senators, including the venerable Robert Taft. By February
1952, Truman's approval ratings had hit 22 percent - the lowest-known
polls of any sitting U.S. president, George W. Bush and Richard Nixon
included.
During World War II, more than 1,000 marines were killed in 72 hours
on the tiny Pacific island of Tarawa, storming head on a Japanese
stronghold that was considered at best an optional objective. The Time
magazine photos of American corpses in the surf caused national
outrage and calls for the resignation of widely respected Admiral
Chester W. Nimitz. Pacific veteran Gen. Holland M. "Howlin' Mad" Smith
said the senseless American slaughter was analogous to Pickett's
costly and futile charge at Gettysburg.
Optional conflicts like the Mexican War, the Philippines Insurrection,
Korea and Vietnam all cost more lives than Iraq. Even our most
successful wars witnessed far more lethal stupidity than anything seen
in Baghdad. Thousands of American dead resulted from lapses like the
Confederate surprise at Shiloh, Japanese surprise attacks on Pearl
Harbor and the Philippines, and the German surprise attacks in the
Ardennes.
There have also been plenty of major policy failures in our history -
a failed invasion of Canada during the War of 1812, a failed 12-year
reconstruction of the South, a failed effort to help Chiang Kai-shek
stop Chinese communists under Mao, a failed effort at the Bay of Pigs
to remove Fidel Castro, and a failed effort to stop communism in
Southeast Asia, to name a few.
Since World War II, our intelligence agencies failed utterly to
foresee the Chinese invasion of Korea, the Yom Kippur War, the fall of
the Shah of Iran, the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, the fall of the
Berlin Wall, the sudden spread of Islamic fundamentalism, the Iraqi
invasion of Kuwait, the Cambodian and Rwandan holocausts, and the
acquisition of the bomb by Pakistan and North Korea.
Nor have past wars been any easier on other presidents than Iraq has
been on President Bush. Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon
left office despised. Exhausted wartime presidents Abraham Lincoln,
William McKinley and Franklin Delano Roosevelt were either
assassinated or died in office. The controversial aftermath of World
War I was a likely cause of Woodrow Wilson's stroke.
The high-stakes war to stabilize the fragile democracy in Iraq is a
serious, costly and controversial business. But so have been most
conflicts in American history. We need a little more humility and
knowledge of our past - and a lot less hysteria, name-calling and
obsession with our present selves."
Published March 1, 2007
"Given all of this country's past wars involving intelligence
failures, tactical and strategic blunders, congressional fights and
popular anger at the president, Iraq and the rising furor over it are
hardly unusual.
Imagine if the House of Representatives had debated a resolution to
authorize the president's use of force in Iraq only after the bombs
were already falling. And what if after the debate, in the middle of
the war, with our troops already in combat, Congress had suddenly
denied such approval?
That is precisely what happened to President Clinton during the
Serbian war of 1999. Neither the Senate nor the House agreed to
sanction the administration's ongoing preemptive bombing campaign
against Serbia. That congressional rebuke prompted liberal commentator
Mark Shields to scoff on "PBS Newshour" that American troops were
"putting their life on the line, and (the Congress) are saying, we're
not with you."
Or consider the national mood in 1968 when the United States suffered
over 16,000 American dead in Vietnam (at that rate, we lost more
troops in three months than we have during the entire four-year Iraqi
war). In response, riots racked the country. Protestors stormed the
Democratic Convention in Chicago. And a polarized country saw both
Robert F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. gunned down.
Nothing in Iraq comes close to the furor over Korea, either. Again,
suppose the following: President Bush conducts an ongoing public fight
with the new commander in Iraq, Gen. David H. Petraeus, who in turn
serially whines to the press that he is being backstabbed by an
unsupportive administration. Bush then fires Petraeus. The general
returns to the United States to tickertape parades, while the
president becomes even more detested as thousands more Americans are
killed.
That scenario sums up the Truman-MacArthur row over the stalemate in
Korea. During that conflict, President Truman fired Secretary of
Defense Louis Johnson; fired Gen. Douglas MacArthur, his senior
military commander in the theater; and faced calls for impeachment
from U.S. senators, including the venerable Robert Taft. By February
1952, Truman's approval ratings had hit 22 percent - the lowest-known
polls of any sitting U.S. president, George W. Bush and Richard Nixon
included.
During World War II, more than 1,000 marines were killed in 72 hours
on the tiny Pacific island of Tarawa, storming head on a Japanese
stronghold that was considered at best an optional objective. The Time
magazine photos of American corpses in the surf caused national
outrage and calls for the resignation of widely respected Admiral
Chester W. Nimitz. Pacific veteran Gen. Holland M. "Howlin' Mad" Smith
said the senseless American slaughter was analogous to Pickett's
costly and futile charge at Gettysburg.
Optional conflicts like the Mexican War, the Philippines Insurrection,
Korea and Vietnam all cost more lives than Iraq. Even our most
successful wars witnessed far more lethal stupidity than anything seen
in Baghdad. Thousands of American dead resulted from lapses like the
Confederate surprise at Shiloh, Japanese surprise attacks on Pearl
Harbor and the Philippines, and the German surprise attacks in the
Ardennes.
There have also been plenty of major policy failures in our history -
a failed invasion of Canada during the War of 1812, a failed 12-year
reconstruction of the South, a failed effort to help Chiang Kai-shek
stop Chinese communists under Mao, a failed effort at the Bay of Pigs
to remove Fidel Castro, and a failed effort to stop communism in
Southeast Asia, to name a few.
Since World War II, our intelligence agencies failed utterly to
foresee the Chinese invasion of Korea, the Yom Kippur War, the fall of
the Shah of Iran, the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, the fall of the
Berlin Wall, the sudden spread of Islamic fundamentalism, the Iraqi
invasion of Kuwait, the Cambodian and Rwandan holocausts, and the
acquisition of the bomb by Pakistan and North Korea.
Nor have past wars been any easier on other presidents than Iraq has
been on President Bush. Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon
left office despised. Exhausted wartime presidents Abraham Lincoln,
William McKinley and Franklin Delano Roosevelt were either
assassinated or died in office. The controversial aftermath of World
War I was a likely cause of Woodrow Wilson's stroke.
The high-stakes war to stabilize the fragile democracy in Iraq is a
serious, costly and controversial business. But so have been most
conflicts in American history. We need a little more humility and
knowledge of our past - and a lot less hysteria, name-calling and
obsession with our present selves."
Mar 1st 2007 | 1:33 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Iraq war is really not unusual compared to most other conflicts
On 1 Mar 2007 05:22:44 -0800, "PJ O'Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
I'm thinking about visiting the caves in Krapina, Croatia in May. It's
billed as the richest fossil source of Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis in
the world. It also features some cave paintings and such.
It sounds interesting, but it does add a +/- 80km loop to one leg of
my journey, Zagreb > Opatija.
Has anyone been there? Any advice would be appreciated.
- TR
<snip>
I'm thinking about visiting the caves in Krapina, Croatia in May. It's
billed as the richest fossil source of Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis in
the world. It also features some cave paintings and such.
It sounds interesting, but it does add a +/- 80km loop to one leg of
my journey, Zagreb > Opatija.
Has anyone been there? Any advice would be appreciated.
- TR
Mar 1st 2007 | 9:53 pm
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Iraq war is really not unusual compared to most other conflicts
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 18:33:24 -0800, VainGlorious
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 1 Mar 2007 05:22:44 -0800, "PJ O'Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>I'm thinking about visiting the caves in Krapina, Croatia in May. It's
>billed as the richest fossil source of Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis in
>the world. It also features some cave paintings and such.
>
>It sounds interesting, but it does add a +/- 80km loop to one leg of
>my journey, Zagreb > Opatija.
>
>Has anyone been there? Any advice would be appreciated.
Have you tried changing the subject line?
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 1 Mar 2007 05:22:44 -0800, "PJ O'Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>I'm thinking about visiting the caves in Krapina, Croatia in May. It's
>billed as the richest fossil source of Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis in
>the world. It also features some cave paintings and such.
>
>It sounds interesting, but it does add a +/- 80km loop to one leg of
>my journey, Zagreb > Opatija.
>
>Has anyone been there? Any advice would be appreciated.
Have you tried changing the subject line?
--
Martin
