How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe
Jan 23rd 2007 | 9:06 pm
#151
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:31:08 +0100, Erick T. Barkhuis
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Markku Grönroos:
>
>> I must say I do also find it problematic that there are sections in German
>> motorways in which no speed limits are set (and people don't seem to mind
>> about them anyways). On rally paths it is quite alright that drivers fill
>> the gravel roads from shoulder to shoulder by roaming monsters. However, in
>> general traffic things should go safely. When folks drive 200 km/h. It isn't
>> safe anymore.
>
>I see it this way: if everybody does about 200kmh, and one idiot is
>roaming the middle lane at 120kmh, he is the one causing danger.
>
>[In other words: it's not the absolute speed that causes danger, but the
>speed difference. Since Germans are used to cope with that,
Yeah, right!
>there's
>nothing particularly unsafe with 200kmh]
Have you seen the result of somebody losing control of his car whilst doing
200km/hr?
Do you know that more Germans break legs/capita, than anywhere else in the
world?
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Markku Grönroos:
>
>> I must say I do also find it problematic that there are sections in German
>> motorways in which no speed limits are set (and people don't seem to mind
>> about them anyways). On rally paths it is quite alright that drivers fill
>> the gravel roads from shoulder to shoulder by roaming monsters. However, in
>> general traffic things should go safely. When folks drive 200 km/h. It isn't
>> safe anymore.
>
>I see it this way: if everybody does about 200kmh, and one idiot is
>roaming the middle lane at 120kmh, he is the one causing danger.
>
>[In other words: it's not the absolute speed that causes danger, but the
>speed difference. Since Germans are used to cope with that,
Yeah, right!
>there's
>nothing particularly unsafe with 200kmh]
Have you seen the result of somebody losing control of his car whilst doing
200km/hr?
Do you know that more Germans break legs/capita, than anywhere else in the
world?
--
Martin
Jan 23rd 2007 | 10:37 pm
#152
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe
Martin:
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:31:08 +0100, Erick
> >[In other words: it's not the absolute speed that causes danger, but the
> >speed difference. Since Germans are used to cope with that,
>
> Yeah, right!
>
> >there's
> >nothing particularly unsafe with 200kmh]
>
> Have you seen the result of somebody losing control of his car whilst doing
> 200km/hr?
Nothing happens, as long as he doesn't hit anything that's either going
into the other direction, or is standing still, or has a speed that's
different from his own.
> Do you know that more Germans break legs/capita, than anywhere else in the
> world?
Yup. They've got weak legs, those Germans.
That's why they don't like to hit the brakes a lot.
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:31:08 +0100, Erick
> >[In other words: it's not the absolute speed that causes danger, but the
> >speed difference. Since Germans are used to cope with that,
>
> Yeah, right!
>
> >there's
> >nothing particularly unsafe with 200kmh]
>
> Have you seen the result of somebody losing control of his car whilst doing
> 200km/hr?
Nothing happens, as long as he doesn't hit anything that's either going
into the other direction, or is standing still, or has a speed that's
different from his own.
> Do you know that more Germans break legs/capita, than anywhere else in the
> world?
Yup. They've got weak legs, those Germans.
That's why they don't like to hit the brakes a lot.
Jan 23rd 2007 | 10:40 pm
#153
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe
"Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestissä:[email protected] ual.net...
> Martin:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:31:08 +0100, Erick
>
>> >[In other words: it's not the absolute speed that causes danger, but the
>> >speed difference. Since Germans are used to cope with that,
>>
>> Yeah, right!
>>
>> >there's
>> >nothing particularly unsafe with 200kmh]
>>
>> Have you seen the result of somebody losing control of his car whilst
>> doing
>> 200km/hr?
>
> Nothing happens, as long as he doesn't hit anything that's either going
> into the other direction, or is standing still, or has a speed that's
> different from his own.
>
You don't find such reasoning dull? If no driver ever commits an error,
accidents never occur.
viestissä:[email protected] ual.net...
> Martin:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:31:08 +0100, Erick
>
>> >[In other words: it's not the absolute speed that causes danger, but the
>> >speed difference. Since Germans are used to cope with that,
>>
>> Yeah, right!
>>
>> >there's
>> >nothing particularly unsafe with 200kmh]
>>
>> Have you seen the result of somebody losing control of his car whilst
>> doing
>> 200km/hr?
>
> Nothing happens, as long as he doesn't hit anything that's either going
> into the other direction, or is standing still, or has a speed that's
> different from his own.
>
You don't find such reasoning dull? If no driver ever commits an error,
accidents never occur.
Jan 23rd 2007 | 10:41 pm
#154
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:37:19 +0100, Erick T. Barkhuis
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Martin:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:31:08 +0100, Erick
>
>> >[In other words: it's not the absolute speed that causes danger, but the
>> >speed difference. Since Germans are used to cope with that,
>>
>> Yeah, right!
>>
>> >there's
>> >nothing particularly unsafe with 200kmh]
>>
>> Have you seen the result of somebody losing control of his car whilst doing
>> 200km/hr?
>
>Nothing happens, as long as he doesn't hit anything that's either going
>into the other direction, or is standing still, or has a speed that's
>different from his own.
I recall the Porsche we saw sitting on the top of low trees besides the
autobahn shortly after it passed us in a ball of spray. It didn't hit anything.
>
>> Do you know that more Germans break legs/capita, than anywhere else in the
>> world?
>
>Yup. They've got weak legs, those Germans.
>That's why they don't like to hit the brakes a lot.
>
:-)
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Martin:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:31:08 +0100, Erick
>
>> >[In other words: it's not the absolute speed that causes danger, but the
>> >speed difference. Since Germans are used to cope with that,
>>
>> Yeah, right!
>>
>> >there's
>> >nothing particularly unsafe with 200kmh]
>>
>> Have you seen the result of somebody losing control of his car whilst doing
>> 200km/hr?
>
>Nothing happens, as long as he doesn't hit anything that's either going
>into the other direction, or is standing still, or has a speed that's
>different from his own.
I recall the Porsche we saw sitting on the top of low trees besides the
autobahn shortly after it passed us in a ball of spray. It didn't hit anything.
>
>> Do you know that more Germans break legs/capita, than anywhere else in the
>> world?
>
>Yup. They've got weak legs, those Germans.
>That's why they don't like to hit the brakes a lot.
>
:-)
--
Martin
Jan 24th 2007 | 3:58 am
#155
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe
Hi Jenny,
I have, in fact, paid close attention to this thread. The response
has been over-whelming and I very much appreciate all the replies.
Thank you!
Mike
>>>My wife and I are planning a trip to Europe this Spring. I've never been
>>>to Europe before...we plan on about 2 weeks (~ 15 nights). Both of us are
>>>English-only speakers.
> <snip>
>
> I have noticed that the OP Mike has not been back to check all these words
> of wisdom!
> Jenny
I have, in fact, paid close attention to this thread. The response
has been over-whelming and I very much appreciate all the replies.
Thank you!
Mike
>>>My wife and I are planning a trip to Europe this Spring. I've never been
>>>to Europe before...we plan on about 2 weeks (~ 15 nights). Both of us are
>>>English-only speakers.
> <snip>
>
> I have noticed that the OP Mike has not been back to check all these words
> of wisdom!
> Jenny
Jan 24th 2007 | 7:05 am
#156
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe
Let is be knownst that on Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:31:08 +0100, Erick T.
Barkhuis <[email protected]> writted:
>Markku Grönroos:
>
>> I must say I do also find it problematic that there are sections in German
>> motorways in which no speed limits are set (and people don't seem to mind
>> about them anyways). On rally paths it is quite alright that drivers fill
>> the gravel roads from shoulder to shoulder by roaming monsters. However, in
>> general traffic things should go safely. When folks drive 200 km/h. It isn't
>> safe anymore.
>
>I see it this way: if everybody does about 200kmh, and one idiot is
>roaming the middle lane at 120kmh, he is the one causing danger.
>
>[In other words: it's not the absolute speed that causes danger, but the
>speed difference. Since Germans are used to cope with that, there's
>nothing particularly unsafe with 200kmh]
This is rather linear thinking. The reality is that high speeds means
far smaller reaction times. You MUST ALWAYS factor in other drivers
mistakes, we all make them from time to time. At 200km/h a mistake is
very likely to result in disaster.
And that is the reason for speed limits.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Barkhuis <[email protected]> writted:
>Markku Grönroos:
>
>> I must say I do also find it problematic that there are sections in German
>> motorways in which no speed limits are set (and people don't seem to mind
>> about them anyways). On rally paths it is quite alright that drivers fill
>> the gravel roads from shoulder to shoulder by roaming monsters. However, in
>> general traffic things should go safely. When folks drive 200 km/h. It isn't
>> safe anymore.
>
>I see it this way: if everybody does about 200kmh, and one idiot is
>roaming the middle lane at 120kmh, he is the one causing danger.
>
>[In other words: it's not the absolute speed that causes danger, but the
>speed difference. Since Germans are used to cope with that, there's
>nothing particularly unsafe with 200kmh]
This is rather linear thinking. The reality is that high speeds means
far smaller reaction times. You MUST ALWAYS factor in other drivers
mistakes, we all make them from time to time. At 200km/h a mistake is
very likely to result in disaster.
And that is the reason for speed limits.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Jan 24th 2007 | 7:44 am
#157
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How is this itinerary for first trip to Europe
Deeply Filled Mortician wrote:
> ...This is rather linear thinking. The reality is that high speeds means
> far smaller reaction times. You MUST ALWAYS factor in other drivers
> mistakes, we all make them from time to time. At 200km/h a mistake is
> very likely to result in disaster.
The problem with this line of thinking is that the facts are that
accident statistics repeatedly demonstrate taht highways are routinely
safer than 'country roads', despite their higher operating speeds.
In other words, how can the "faster" also be the "safer"?
The basic answer is that there are variables other than merely speed
that are equally-or-more significant contributors to highway safety.
Road construction is an obvious example.
And the Autobahns in particular have roughly the same normalized
fatality rate as US Highways, despite the latter having a much lower
speed limit. A likely contributor to the reason why could easily be
the difference in seatbelt adoption rates: in Germany, its roughly 98%
for the Autobahn and 94% or rural roads, whereas in the USA, the
average seatbelt is now only 81% (as of June 06), despite the
increasingly stringient enforcement methods which have raised
conformance in the USA by roughly 10% over the past 6 years (ie, 71%
conformance in CY2000).
-hh
> ...This is rather linear thinking. The reality is that high speeds means
> far smaller reaction times. You MUST ALWAYS factor in other drivers
> mistakes, we all make them from time to time. At 200km/h a mistake is
> very likely to result in disaster.
The problem with this line of thinking is that the facts are that
accident statistics repeatedly demonstrate taht highways are routinely
safer than 'country roads', despite their higher operating speeds.
In other words, how can the "faster" also be the "safer"?
The basic answer is that there are variables other than merely speed
that are equally-or-more significant contributors to highway safety.
Road construction is an obvious example.
And the Autobahns in particular have roughly the same normalized
fatality rate as US Highways, despite the latter having a much lower
speed limit. A likely contributor to the reason why could easily be
the difference in seatbelt adoption rates: in Germany, its roughly 98%
for the Autobahn and 94% or rural roads, whereas in the USA, the
average seatbelt is now only 81% (as of June 06), despite the
increasingly stringient enforcement methods which have raised
conformance in the USA by roughly 10% over the past 6 years (ie, 71%
conformance in CY2000).
-hh
