I'm looking for some advice and comments about an itinerary I'm
putting together for a Germany/Austria trip May 4 through May 29.

Goals for the plan,

1. Maximize places that have Hiltons(I can get rooms free with points)
but not limit my self with this, so where it is convenient I'll stay in
a Hilton where it is not I'll get local accommodations.

2. Have fun... I guess that is really it

May 4 Leave USA sleep on airplane
May 5 Arrive Frankfurt - Train (1.5hr) to Bacharach sleep Bacharach
May 6 Rhine Valley tours/boats sleep Bacharach
May 7 Train (7hr) to Berlin sleep Berlin
May 8 Tour Berlin sleep Berlin
May 9 Slack Day sleep Berlin
May 10 Train (2hr) to Dresden sleep Dresden
May 11 Dixie Land Festival sleep Dresden
May 12 Tour Dresden sleep Dresden
May 13 Train (5.5hr) to Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
May 14 Tour Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
May 15 Master Draught Show Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
May 16 Romantic Road Bus to Munich sleep Munich
May 17 Tour Munich sleep Munich
May 18 Tour Castle Neuschwanstein & Linderhof sleep Munich
May 19 Tour Dachau sleep Munich
May 20 More Munich Touring sleep Munich
May 21 Slack Day sleep Munich
May 22 Train (2hr) to Salzburg tour Salzburg sleep Salzburg
May 23 Tour Berchtesgaden sleep Salzburg
May 24 Train (3.5hr) to Vienna sleep Vienna
May 25 Tour Vienna sleep Vienna
May 26 Train (5.5hr) to Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
May 27 Tour Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
May 28 Train (2.5hr) to Frankfurt sleep Frankfurt
May 29 Fly Home sleep in my own bed..


Thanks!!

On 10 Apr 2005 11:14:20 -0700, "bugsy" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I'm looking for some advice and comments about an itinerary I'm
    >putting together for a Germany/Austria trip May 4 through May 29.
    >Goals for the plan,
    >1. Maximize places that have Hiltons(I can get rooms free with points)
    >but not limit my self with this, so where it is convenient I'll stay in
    >a Hilton where it is not I'll get local accommodations.
    >2. Have fun... I guess that is really it
    >May 4 Leave USA sleep on airplane
    >May 5 Arrive Frankfurt - Train (1.5hr) to Bacharach sleep Bacharach
    >May 6 Rhine Valley tours/boats sleep Bacharach
    >May 7 Train (7hr) to Berlin sleep Berlin
    >May 8 Tour Berlin sleep Berlin
    >May 9 Slack Day sleep Berlin
    >May 10 Train (2hr) to Dresden sleep Dresden
    >May 11 Dixie Land Festival sleep Dresden
    >May 12 Tour Dresden sleep Dresden
    >May 13 Train (5.5hr) to Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    >May 14 Tour Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    >May 15 Master Draught Show Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    >May 16 Romantic Road Bus to Munich sleep Munich
    >May 17 Tour Munich sleep Munich
    >May 18 Tour Castle Neuschwanstein & Linderhof sleep Munich
    >May 19 Tour Dachau sleep Munich
    >May 20 More Munich Touring sleep Munich
    >May 21 Slack Day sleep Munich
    >May 22 Train (2hr) to Salzburg tour Salzburg sleep Salzburg
    >May 23 Tour Berchtesgaden sleep Salzburg
    >May 24 Train (3.5hr) to Vienna sleep Vienna
    >May 25 Tour Vienna sleep Vienna
    >May 26 Train (5.5hr) to Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    >May 27 Tour Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    >May 28 Train (2.5hr) to Frankfurt sleep Frankfurt
    >May 29 Fly Home sleep in my own bed..

My goodness, someone put together an itinerary that actually includes
enough slack time!!!

FWIW, I would spend a couple days more in Berlin. It's a BIIIIIG city,
and there is lots to do. Otherwise, it sounds great.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

"bugsy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > May 4 Leave USA sleep on airplane
    > May 5 Arrive Frankfurt - Train (1.5hr) to Bacharach sleep Bacharach
    > May 6 Rhine Valley tours/boats sleep Bacharach
    > May 7 Train (7hr) to Berlin sleep Berlin
    > May 8 Tour Berlin sleep Berlin
    > May 9 Slack Day sleep Berlin
    > May 10 Train (2hr) to Dresden sleep Dresden
    > May 11 Dixie Land Festival sleep Dresden
    > May 12 Tour Dresden sleep Dresden
    > May 13 Train (5.5hr) to Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    > May 14 Tour Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    > May 15 Master Draught Show Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    > May 16 Romantic Road Bus to Munich sleep Munich
    > May 17 Tour Munich sleep Munich
    > May 18 Tour Castle Neuschwanstein & Linderhof sleep Munich
    > May 19 Tour Dachau sleep Munich
    > May 20 More Munich Touring sleep Munich
    > May 21 Slack Day sleep Munich
    > May 22 Train (2hr) to Salzburg tour Salzburg sleep Salzburg
    > May 23 Tour Berchtesgaden sleep Salzburg
    > May 24 Train (3.5hr) to Vienna sleep Vienna
    > May 25 Tour Vienna sleep Vienna
    > May 26 Train (5.5hr) to Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    > May 27 Tour Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    > May 28 Train (2.5hr) to Frankfurt sleep Frankfurt
    > May 29 Fly Home sleep in my own bed..


first off, congratulations on coming up with an itinerary that allows enough
time to see the sights in your preferred areas. Al lot of people would have
asked for comments on what to do in about 12 different countries over this
time span.

You seem to have a good idea of what you want to see and have planned it
well. I have been to all of your destinations, save Berlin and Dresden.

One thing that caught my eye was taking a 7 hour train trip on only your
second full day. That could be tiring, but since it;s not the most scenic
part of the country, sleeping on the train is an option. You might want to
go first class on that leg to ensure the space to rest.

You will consider yourself a genius for choosing to stay overnight in
Rothenburg. It gets a lot of criticism for being crammed with busloads of
tourists, but it is a much different and magical place at night. TAKE THE
NIGHT WATCHMAN TOUR. Well worth it. You will have your turn being part of
the bussing hordes on your trip down to Munich.

No matter what you think about it being touristy - go to the Hofbrauhaus in
Munich. Sit yourself at a table with some strangers and make some instant
friends. If you;re lucky it will beat the best night of pub drinking you
have ever had. It holds down 1st and 3rd place for me- with an afternoon at
Oktoberfest holding 2nd.

Salzburg is my favourite city. Classy, yet fun, and very compact to get
around in. Visit St. Peter's cemetery, at the base of the mountain, and dine
in the adjacent restaurant. The Hohensalzburg tour is worth the cost.

By the way - I hate you! I don't get to go back until World Cup 2006.

    > "bugsy" <[email protected]> wrote: [edited for brevity]
    >> May 5 Arrive Frankfurt - Train (1.5hr) to Bacharach...
    >> May 7 Train (7hr) to Berlin sleep Berlin...
    >> May 10 Train (2hr) to Dresden sleep Dresden...
    >> May 13 Train (5.5hr) to Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg...
    >> May 16 Romantic Road Bus to Munich sleep Munich...
    >> May 18 Tour Castle Neuschwanstein & Linderhof...
    >> May 19 Tour Dachau sleep Munich...
    >> May 22 Train (2hr) to Salzburg tour Salzburg...
    >> May 24 Train (3.5hr) to Vienna sleep Vienna...
    >> May 26 Train (5.5hr) to Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg..
    >> May 28 Train (2.5hr) to Frankfurt sleep Frankfurt...

My wife and I did almost the identical trip in '94 w/o Berlin,
Dresden or Nuremberg, in only 2 weeks, so IMO, this is should
work nicely. =Rog'

bugsy wrote:
May 14 Tour Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg

The view looking up at Rothenburg from down at the river is nice.

George

In article <[email protected] .com>,
bugsy <[email protected]> wrote:
    >May 12 Tour Dresden sleep Dresden
    >May 13 Train (5.5hr) to Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    >May 14 Tour Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    >May 15 Master Draught Show Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    >May 16 Romantic Road Bus to Munich sleep Munich

Two whole days for Rothenburg? The Master Draught (Meistertrunk) show
isn't very long, only about ten minutes perhaps, and it's put on several
times a day.

    >May 25 Tour Vienna sleep Vienna
    >May 26 Train (5.5hr) to Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    >May 27 Tour Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    >May 28 Train (2.5hr) to Frankfurt sleep Frankfurt

Since you're also visiting Nuremberg, you might consider combining these
two stops by staying in Bad Windsheim, a spa town which is sort of like
Rothenburg but minus the wall (which was torn down around 1900), the
tourist-oriented gift shops and about 95% of the tourists. The historic
town center, inside where the wall used to be, is very attractive, with
narrow cobblestone streets and Fachwerk buildings, etc. There's also a
large open-air museum with reconstructed farm buildings and houses from
the Franconia region, that you could easily spend a whole day at, if
you're interested in that sort of thing. Both Rothenburg and Nuremberg
are easy day-trips by local train. The spa, train station, central area
and open-air museum are all within walking distance of each other, unless
you have significant problems with walking in general.

Besides the spa, there are several small hotels in the historic center.
My wife and I stayed at the Pastorius House, a bed-and-breakfast sort of
place in a restored building that was associated with the father of the
man who organized the first group of German settlers in the U.S. It's
inexpensive, but might be a bit too basic for you if you're used to
Hiltons. ;-)

We happened to visit Bad Windsheim because my wife belongs to the society
that restored the Pastorius House, and she was curious to see where her
donations ended up. We liked it a lot there, and will probably go back
sometime.

--
Jon Bell <[email protected]> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA

Only thing I would ponder about is the 2.5 days in Rothenburg. Even
with Master Draught, Rothenburg is a one day/one night city.

"Jon Bell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


    > Two whole days for Rothenburg? The Master Draught (Meistertrunk) show
    > isn't very long, only about ten minutes perhaps, and it's put on several
    > times a day.

From Rothenburg you could visit Creglingen, Bad Mergentheim, or Wurzburg,
which are all just a little north, and would not be part of the Romantic
Road bus tour you plan to take, south, to Munich.

I repeat, stay overnight in Rothenburg. Come back and tell us if it was a
wise decision.


    > >May 25 Tour Vienna sleep Vienna
    > >May 26 Train (5.5hr) to Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    > >May 27 Tour Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    > >May 28 Train (2.5hr) to Frankfurt sleep Frankfurt
    > Since you're also visiting Nuremberg, you might consider combining these
    > two stops by staying in Bad Windsheim, a spa town which is sort of like
    > Rothenburg but minus the wall (which was torn down around 1900), the
    > tourist-oriented gift shops and about 95% of the tourists. The historic
    > town center, inside where the wall used to be, is very attractive, with
    > narrow cobblestone streets and Fachwerk buildings, etc. There's also a
    > large open-air museum with reconstructed farm buildings and houses from
    > the Franconia region, that you could easily spend a whole day at, if
    > you're interested in that sort of thing. Both Rothenburg and Nuremberg
    > are easy day-trips by local train. The spa, train station, central area
    > and open-air museum are all within walking distance of each other, unless
    > you have significant problems with walking in general.

Bad Windsheim sounds interesting, but I don't know how you can suggest that
2 days/nights in Rothenburg is too much and then recommend combining that
planned stopover with 2 more nights in Nuremberg into a 4 night stay in Bad
Windsheim.

"Wierd Travelers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > Only thing I would ponder about is the 2.5 days in Rothenburg. Even
    > with Master Draught, Rothenburg is a one day/one night city.


It really depends on what you want your vacation to be, or what interests
you.

The OP appears to be the kind of traveller who likes to park himself in a
location for at least 2, and preferably 3, days and become familiar with the
location. This gives the opportunity to have a more relaxed vacation and
affords the chance to see other sites via daytrips, if desired.

Certainly, there are not a lot of "museum" or "fortress" like sights in
Rothenburg, but hopping from sight to sight does not interrest a lot of
people.

Rothenburg is like Venice - the city itself is the museum and the reason to
go. It's for wandering at night, and at dawn, for taking walks down in the
valley, and for just sitting and soaking it all in.

My wife was not too keen on visiting Germany, the first time we went, so I
took her to Rothenburg. She now begs me to go back with Rothenburg as a
"must" on the itinerary. She has pretty much traded in Bordeaux and cheese,
for Weissbier and roast pork.

"Jon Bell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...


    > Two whole days for Rothenburg? The Master Draught (Meistertrunk) show
    > isn't very long, only about ten minutes perhaps, and it's put on several
    > times a day.

From Rothenburg you could visit Creglingen, Bad Mergentheim, or Wurzburg,
which are all just a little north, and would not be part of the Romantic
Road bus tour you plan to take, south, to Munich.

I repeat, stay overnight in Rothenburg. Come back and tell us if it was a
wise decision.


    > >May 25 Tour Vienna sleep Vienna
    > >May 26 Train (5.5hr) to Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    > >May 27 Tour Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    > >May 28 Train (2.5hr) to Frankfurt sleep Frankfurt
    > Since you're also visiting Nuremberg, you might consider combining these
    > two stops by staying in Bad Windsheim, a spa town which is sort of like
    > Rothenburg but minus the wall (which was torn down around 1900), the
    > tourist-oriented gift shops and about 95% of the tourists. The historic
    > town center, inside where the wall used to be, is very attractive, with
    > narrow cobblestone streets and Fachwerk buildings, etc. There's also a
    > large open-air museum with reconstructed farm buildings and houses from
    > the Franconia region, that you could easily spend a whole day at, if
    > you're interested in that sort of thing. Both Rothenburg and Nuremberg
    > are easy day-trips by local train. The spa, train station, central area
    > and open-air museum are all within walking distance of each other, unless
    > you have significant problems with walking in general.

Bad Windsheim sounds interesting, but I don't know how you can suggest that
2 days/nights in Rothenburg is too much and then recommend combining that
planned stopover with 2 more nights in Nuremberg into a 4 night stay in Bad
Windsheim.

Am 10 Apr 2005 11:14:20 -0700 schrieb bugsy:

    > I'm looking for some advice and comments about an itinerary I'm
    > putting together for a Germany/Austria trip May 4 through May 29.

Nice trip, but I would cut Rothenburg a bit shorter and rather add another
day in Berlin (maybe visit Potsdam, it's not far). There's much more to
see.

Regards,

Frank

In article <[email protected] .com>,
"Wierd Travelers" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Only thing I would ponder about is the 2.5 days in Rothenburg. Even
    > with Master Draught, Rothenburg is a one day/one night city.
    >

Rothenburg is nice for beginners, but pretty touristy. There are
medieval remains elsewhere with fewer tourists. I've lost track of the
beginnings of this discussion, but a thought: if you come in via FRA,
Gelnausen is nearby and not far off the route to other places.

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

    > In article <[email protected] .com>,
    > bugsy <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >May 12 Tour Dresden sleep Dresden
    > >May 13 Train (5.5hr) to Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    > >May 14 Tour Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    > >May 15 Master Draught Show Rothenburg sleep Rothenburg
    > >May 16 Romantic Road Bus to Munich sleep Munich
    >
    > >May 25 Tour Vienna sleep Vienna
    > >May 26 Train (5.5hr) to Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    > >May 27 Tour Nuremberg sleep Nuremberg
    > >May 28 Train (2.5hr) to Frankfurt sleep Frankfurt

Ok, that's what I was looking for. On my last trip to German territory
I ended up in Gelnhausen(for a couple days) and took the train from
there to the airport to fly home instead of wasting time in Frankfurt.

Depends on what interests you. For me it has to be medieval.

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

"bugsy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > I'm looking for some advice and comments about an itinerary I'm
    > putting together for a Germany/Austria trip May 4 through May 29.

All of the suggestions so far have been very good. I think your basic
itinerary is just fine. Have made many trips to Germany, and the first one
was the only one wherein we used the rail connections. We did fine, but we
felt hampered by not having enough flexibility. Since that trip, we have
always rented an auto. No real problem in getting around. Signs are good.
Roads are good.

Staying in one place for a few nights, and making trips to surrounding areas
is a good idea. We have done the same many times. Once again, with an
auto, it is much easier to do.

Missed our Germany trip last year, so I am a little jealous. Will see about
one in September.

Have a great time.

Joe in Georgetown, Texas, USA
Return address is bogus.
Use [email protected]
to respond directly.

On 11 Apr 2005 05:14:12 -0700, Wierd Travelers wrote:
    > Only thing I would ponder about is the 2.5 days in Rothenburg. Even
    > with Master Draught, Rothenburg is a one day/one night city.

Rothenburg in the daytime is a swarm of tourists. About ~6pm the hoard
clears out, and it becomes a wonderfully quiet, quaint old town. If I were
to stay there two nights, I'd consider going to Dinkelsbuhl and/or
Nordlingen on the second day to escape the crowds. A search on "Romantic
Road" will turn up some websites with nice details about the area.

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address