German: ich or ish
Oct 3rd 2003, 11:09 am
#76
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Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
Bluesea <thedeep_bluesea@myrealboxTHE-TRA$H.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Casey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
> > the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
> > of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
> > has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
> > dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
> > the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
> > or is she misinformed?
> I lived in Germany for two years. It's a regional thing. Don't worry about
> it.
I asked a Bavarian man today about the whole "ich" pronounciation thing. He
said it with a guttural "Ihhhhhr" (thats as best as I can write it!). I have
always pronounced it "ish", rightly or wrongly. People appeared to
understand!
---
DFM
news:[email protected]...
> "Casey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
> > the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
> > of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
> > has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
> > dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
> > the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
> > or is she misinformed?
> I lived in Germany for two years. It's a regional thing. Don't worry about
> it.
I asked a Bavarian man today about the whole "ich" pronounciation thing. He
said it with a guttural "Ihhhhhr" (thats as best as I can write it!). I have
always pronounced it "ish", rightly or wrongly. People appeared to
understand!
---
DFM
Oct 5th 2003, 3:50 pm
#77
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:31:03 GMT, "Casey" <[email protected]> wrote:
>The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
>the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
>of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
>has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
>dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
>the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
>or is she misinformed?
>Casey
IMO people teach this to English speakers because it is understandable
and it is easy for native English speakers to pronounce. Whether
northern or southern Germany, the word is not pronounced like English
"ick" or "ish", either one.
Mason Barge
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln
>The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
>the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
>of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
>has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
>dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
>the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
>or is she misinformed?
>Casey
IMO people teach this to English speakers because it is understandable
and it is easy for native English speakers to pronounce. Whether
northern or southern Germany, the word is not pronounced like English
"ick" or "ish", either one.
Mason Barge
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."
-- Abraham Lincoln
Oct 7th 2003, 10:00 pm
#78
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
"Casey" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] link.net>...
> The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
> the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
> of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
> has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
> dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
> the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
> or is she misinformed?
>
>
> Casey
I've been listening to some Freddy Quinn CDs that I bought last month
in Berlin. (Yeah, I know he's corny, but it brings back memories.)
I never noticed it before in his music, but I now hear that he
pronounces a very definite "ish". It's "mish", "dish" and so on. It
sounds like he's an American who doesn't care how sloppy his German
pronunciation is, yet he's a native German. I believe he comes from
Hamburg or somewhere in the north, but I've never heard such a
noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
So I guess anything goes.....
> The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
> the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
> of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
> has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
> dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
> the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
> or is she misinformed?
>
>
> Casey
I've been listening to some Freddy Quinn CDs that I bought last month
in Berlin. (Yeah, I know he's corny, but it brings back memories.)
I never noticed it before in his music, but I now hear that he
pronounces a very definite "ish". It's "mish", "dish" and so on. It
sounds like he's an American who doesn't care how sloppy his German
pronunciation is, yet he's a native German. I believe he comes from
Hamburg or somewhere in the north, but I've never heard such a
noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
So I guess anything goes.....
Oct 8th 2003, 9:47 am
#79
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
On 7 Oct 2003 15:00:14 -0700, Terryo wrote:
> but I've never heard such a
> noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
You obviously haven't heard many, or either not paid much attention.
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
> but I've never heard such a
> noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
You obviously haven't heard many, or either not paid much attention.
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
Oct 8th 2003, 11:52 am
#80
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
Tim Challenger <"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 7 Oct 2003 15:00:14 -0700, Terryo wrote:
> > but I've never heard such a
> > noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
> You obviously haven't heard many, or either not paid much attention.
It was "ish" in Berlin, IIRC.
---
DFM
news:[email protected]...
> On 7 Oct 2003 15:00:14 -0700, Terryo wrote:
> > but I've never heard such a
> > noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
> You obviously haven't heard many, or either not paid much attention.
It was "ish" in Berlin, IIRC.
---
DFM
Oct 8th 2003, 3:22 pm
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:52:35 +1000, Deep Freud Moors wrote:
> Tim Challenger <"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 7 Oct 2003 15:00:14 -0700, Terryo wrote:
>>> but I've never heard such a
>>> noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
>> You obviously haven't heard many, or either not paid much attention.
> It was "ish" in Berlin, IIRC.
Berlin's more of an 'ick'.
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
> Tim Challenger <"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 7 Oct 2003 15:00:14 -0700, Terryo wrote:
>>> but I've never heard such a
>>> noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
>> You obviously haven't heard many, or either not paid much attention.
> It was "ish" in Berlin, IIRC.
Berlin's more of an 'ick'.
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
Oct 8th 2003, 6:06 pm
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
On 7 Oct 2003 15:00:14 -0700, [email protected] (Terryo) wrote:
>I never noticed it before in his music, but I now hear that he
>pronounces a very definite "ish". It's "mish", "dish" and so on. It
>sounds like he's an American who doesn't care how sloppy his German
>pronunciation is, yet he's a native German. I believe he comes from
>Hamburg or somewhere in the north, but I've never heard such a
>noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
>So I guess anything goes.....
There was an interview on BBC Radio 4 a couple of days ago about the
low water levels on the River Rhine.
Locals in Koblenz and Kaub were interviewed, and before a translated
voice-over was edited over the original speech, some very clear "ish"
sounds were audible.
>I never noticed it before in his music, but I now hear that he
>pronounces a very definite "ish". It's "mish", "dish" and so on. It
>sounds like he's an American who doesn't care how sloppy his German
>pronunciation is, yet he's a native German. I believe he comes from
>Hamburg or somewhere in the north, but I've never heard such a
>noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
>So I guess anything goes.....
There was an interview on BBC Radio 4 a couple of days ago about the
low water levels on the River Rhine.
Locals in Koblenz and Kaub were interviewed, and before a translated
voice-over was edited over the original speech, some very clear "ish"
sounds were audible.
Oct 8th 2003, 9:45 pm
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
"Deep Freud Moors" <deepfloydmars@yIaWONThBITEoYA!o.co.uk> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>.. .
> Tim Challenger <"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 7 Oct 2003 15:00:14 -0700, Terryo wrote:
> >
> > > but I've never heard such a
> > > noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
> >
> > You obviously haven't heard many, or either not paid much attention.
> >
>
> It was "ish" in Berlin, IIRC.
> ---
> DFM
Actually, I have heard many dialects, from the years I lived in
Germany and my many visits to all parts of the country. And I just
returned from Berlin, where as usual I conversed only in German. And
I repeat -- I have never heard "ish" pronounced as Freddy Quinn does.
Most "ish" dialects either have some tightening of the tongue or
palate or, on the other hand, a relaxation of the tongue or mouth,
creating a slight lisp or whisper at the end. I've never heard "dich"
pronounced EXACTLY as the American "dish". as Freddy Quinn does.
> Tim Challenger <"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at"> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 7 Oct 2003 15:00:14 -0700, Terryo wrote:
> >
> > > but I've never heard such a
> > > noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
> >
> > You obviously haven't heard many, or either not paid much attention.
> >
>
> It was "ish" in Berlin, IIRC.
> ---
> DFM
Actually, I have heard many dialects, from the years I lived in
Germany and my many visits to all parts of the country. And I just
returned from Berlin, where as usual I conversed only in German. And
I repeat -- I have never heard "ish" pronounced as Freddy Quinn does.
Most "ish" dialects either have some tightening of the tongue or
palate or, on the other hand, a relaxation of the tongue or mouth,
creating a slight lisp or whisper at the end. I've never heard "dich"
pronounced EXACTLY as the American "dish". as Freddy Quinn does.
Oct 9th 2003, 8:39 am
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
>>> > but I've never heard such a
>>> > noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
>>> You obviously haven't heard many, or either not paid much attention.
>> It was "ish" in Berlin, IIRC.
> Actually, I have heard many dialects, from the years I lived in
> Germany and my many visits to all parts of the country. And I just
> returned from Berlin, where as usual I conversed only in German. And
> I repeat -- I have never heard "ish" pronounced as Freddy Quinn does.
> Most "ish" dialects either have some tightening of the tongue or
> palate or, on the other hand, a relaxation of the tongue or mouth,
> creating a slight lisp or whisper at the end. I've never heard "dich"
> pronounced EXACTLY as the American "dish". as Freddy Quinn does.
I've never heard Freddy Quinn, but I have frequently heard a very
pronounced "ish". I doubt I can pronounce an American "dish" but I can do a
British one, and it sounds the same to me.
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
>>> > noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
>>> You obviously haven't heard many, or either not paid much attention.
>> It was "ish" in Berlin, IIRC.
> Actually, I have heard many dialects, from the years I lived in
> Germany and my many visits to all parts of the country. And I just
> returned from Berlin, where as usual I conversed only in German. And
> I repeat -- I have never heard "ish" pronounced as Freddy Quinn does.
> Most "ish" dialects either have some tightening of the tongue or
> palate or, on the other hand, a relaxation of the tongue or mouth,
> creating a slight lisp or whisper at the end. I've never heard "dich"
> pronounced EXACTLY as the American "dish". as Freddy Quinn does.
I've never heard Freddy Quinn, but I have frequently heard a very
pronounced "ish". I doubt I can pronounce an American "dish" but I can do a
British one, and it sounds the same to me.
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
Oct 15th 2003, 1:34 am
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
In article <[email protected]> ,
[email protected] (Terryo) wrote:
> "Casey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected] link.net>...
> > The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
> > the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
> > of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
> > has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
> > dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
> > the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
> > or is she misinformed?
Dialect variations range from ish to ik, but you ought to really try
to split the difference, since you are not going to be speaking a
dialect.
> I've never heard such a
> noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
That's not northern; it's more likely in the middle.
>
> So I guess anything goes.....
Not really, as I said above. If you're learning the language, you
should not be throwing the odd dialectal pronunciation, you should be
trying for something closer to the standard.
--
Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
perspicuitas enim argumentatione elevator--Cicero
(The clearest subjects are often obscured by lengthened reasoning)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Erilar's Cave Annex:
http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo
[email protected] (Terryo) wrote:
> "Casey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected] link.net>...
> > The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
> > the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
> > of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
> > has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
> > dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
> > the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
> > or is she misinformed?
Dialect variations range from ish to ik, but you ought to really try
to split the difference, since you are not going to be speaking a
dialect.
> I've never heard such a
> noticeable "ish" sound in any German dialect.
That's not northern; it's more likely in the middle.
>
> So I guess anything goes.....
Not really, as I said above. If you're learning the language, you
should not be throwing the odd dialectal pronunciation, you should be
trying for something closer to the standard.
--
Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
perspicuitas enim argumentatione elevator--Cicero
(The clearest subjects are often obscured by lengthened reasoning)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Erilar's Cave Annex:
http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo
Oct 16th 2003, 10:47 am
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
"Casey" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] link.net>...
> The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
> the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
> of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
> has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
> dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
> the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
> or is she misinformed?
>
>
> Casey
In southern germany, especially in the Bundesland Rheinland-Pfalz they
pronounce "ich" like "isch". it's a simalar lound you hear, when
native french people would pronounce the german "ch" silibals.
JoacCHim Fritz
> The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
> the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
> of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
> has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
> dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
> the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
> or is she misinformed?
>
>
> Casey
In southern germany, especially in the Bundesland Rheinland-Pfalz they
pronounce "ich" like "isch". it's a simalar lound you hear, when
native french people would pronounce the german "ch" silibals.
JoacCHim Fritz
