German: ich or ish
Sep 28th 2003, 9:24 pm
#31
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Re: German: ich or ish
"Casey" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected] link.net>...
> The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
> the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
> of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
> has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
> dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
> the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
> or is she misinformed?
I remember that a German textbook I used in college--and this was 35
years ago--said that the closest English sound to the "ch" in the
German "ich" was the initial "h" from the word "hue." My teachers made
a distinction between the "ch" following the vowels "i" and "e" (ich,
Blech) and those following "a" or "o" or "u" (nach, doch, Tuch). The
latter were farther back in the throat.
> The few German language CDs I've heard always pronounce
> the personal pronoun for the English 'I' as ich, making the sound
> of ch in the back of the throat. My latest conversational class
> has a teacher that pronounces it as ish (the last three letters from
> dish). She claims that this is a dialect variation. Well, what do
> the German speakers here think? Is ish a dialect pronunciation
> or is she misinformed?
I remember that a German textbook I used in college--and this was 35
years ago--said that the closest English sound to the "ch" in the
German "ich" was the initial "h" from the word "hue." My teachers made
a distinction between the "ch" following the vowels "i" and "e" (ich,
Blech) and those following "a" or "o" or "u" (nach, doch, Tuch). The
latter were farther back in the throat.
Sep 28th 2003, 9:39 pm
#32
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Re: German: ich or ish
I have learned to do a ch sound (actually not like any English sound, more
gutteral) but toward the front of the mouth, (as opposed to auch which is a
different sound.
But I have heard the sh sound a lot also, though more in the south, esp.
Bavaria.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
gutteral) but toward the front of the mouth, (as opposed to auch which is a
different sound.
But I have heard the sh sound a lot also, though more in the south, esp.
Bavaria.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
Sep 28th 2003, 9:46 pm
#33
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Re: German: ich or ish
Vorher schrieb "Keith Anderson"
> Many years ago I lived in Frankfurt, where many sounds became "sh"
So you know the true promise of being called "Schnuggelsche,
Zuggerschneggsche" ;-)))
> The nice "Hundertfünfzig" of Hochdeutsch became "Hunnertfuftsch" and
> even Hamburg became "Hambursch"
> >
> Many years ago I lived in Frankfurt, where many sounds became "sh"
So you know the true promise of being called "Schnuggelsche,
Zuggerschneggsche" ;-)))
> The nice "Hundertfünfzig" of Hochdeutsch became "Hunnertfuftsch" and
> even Hamburg became "Hambursch"
> >
Sep 28th 2003, 10:46 pm
#34
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Re: German: ich or ish
[email protected] (Thomas Milligan) wrote:
> I remember that a German textbook I used in college--and this was 35
> years ago--said that the closest English sound to the "ch" in the
> German "ich" was the initial "h" from the word "hue."
??? Sorry for getting sci.lang.translation'ish, but which initial "h"
are you talking about? Some 20 years ago I was taught to forget the
initial "h" in words like hue, huge, humidity, humour etc. Is this not
correct?
--
np : -
> I remember that a German textbook I used in college--and this was 35
> years ago--said that the closest English sound to the "ch" in the
> German "ich" was the initial "h" from the word "hue."
??? Sorry for getting sci.lang.translation'ish, but which initial "h"
are you talking about? Some 20 years ago I was taught to forget the
initial "h" in words like hue, huge, humidity, humour etc. Is this not
correct?
--
np : -
Sep 28th 2003, 11:22 pm
#35
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Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
In message <[email protected]>, tim
<[email protected]> writes
>And to show that it works both ways 98% of foreigners that I
>meet cannot say my (full) name correctly (I'm sure I've had no
>problems with it since I was small) and I usually have no
>difficulty turning the tabes on the ignorant's who attempt to
>belittle my inabilities[1] as lack of trying.
We don't know what your full name is -- it isn't Tim St John
Cholmondeley-Featherstonehaugh by any chance?
--
Arwel Parry
http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/
<[email protected]> writes
>And to show that it works both ways 98% of foreigners that I
>meet cannot say my (full) name correctly (I'm sure I've had no
>problems with it since I was small) and I usually have no
>difficulty turning the tabes on the ignorant's who attempt to
>belittle my inabilities[1] as lack of trying.
We don't know what your full name is -- it isn't Tim St John
Cholmondeley-Featherstonehaugh by any chance?
--
Arwel Parry
http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/
Sep 28th 2003, 11:50 pm
#36
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Re: German: ich or ish
Thomas Adams wrote:
>
> ??? Sorry for getting sci.lang.translation'ish, but which initial "h"
> are you talking about? Some 20 years ago I was taught to forget the
> initial "h" in words like hue, huge, humidity, humour etc. Is this not
> correct?
>
There are variations - I am a native English speaker, as were my parents
(one US-born, one Scottish-born). We all pronounce the 'h'. Many other
native speakers do not.
There are also variations in the way 'wh' is pronounced.
Sheila Viemeister
>
> ??? Sorry for getting sci.lang.translation'ish, but which initial "h"
> are you talking about? Some 20 years ago I was taught to forget the
> initial "h" in words like hue, huge, humidity, humour etc. Is this not
> correct?
>
There are variations - I am a native English speaker, as were my parents
(one US-born, one Scottish-born). We all pronounce the 'h'. Many other
native speakers do not.
There are also variations in the way 'wh' is pronounced.
Sheila Viemeister
Sep 29th 2003, 3:31 am
#37
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Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
Thomas Adams <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Thomas Milligan) wrote:
>
> > I remember that a German textbook I used in college--and this was 35
> > years ago--said that the closest English sound to the "ch" in the
> > German "ich" was the initial "h" from the word "hue."
>
> ??? Sorry for getting sci.lang.translation'ish, but which initial "h"
> are you talking about? Some 20 years ago I was taught to forget the
> initial "h" in words like hue, huge, humidity, humour etc. Is this not
> correct?
No, it's not really correct. The 'h' is quite soft, but is definitely
there. Often it is little more than a short breath of air leading into
the vowel. As I understand it, it is very difficult for non-Anglo
speakers to differentiate between "hungry" and "angry". If you were to
say the former as "ungry", it would be considered poor pronounciation.
Either way, pronounciation is not so critical in English, due to the
enormous amount of accents that exist around the globe. If it's
clearly understandable, it's good English in my books.
---
DFM
> [email protected] (Thomas Milligan) wrote:
>
> > I remember that a German textbook I used in college--and this was 35
> > years ago--said that the closest English sound to the "ch" in the
> > German "ich" was the initial "h" from the word "hue."
>
> ??? Sorry for getting sci.lang.translation'ish, but which initial "h"
> are you talking about? Some 20 years ago I was taught to forget the
> initial "h" in words like hue, huge, humidity, humour etc. Is this not
> correct?
No, it's not really correct. The 'h' is quite soft, but is definitely
there. Often it is little more than a short breath of air leading into
the vowel. As I understand it, it is very difficult for non-Anglo
speakers to differentiate between "hungry" and "angry". If you were to
say the former as "ungry", it would be considered poor pronounciation.
Either way, pronounciation is not so critical in English, due to the
enormous amount of accents that exist around the globe. If it's
clearly understandable, it's good English in my books.
---
DFM
Sep 29th 2003, 8:48 am
#38
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Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
Thomas Adams writes:
> Some 20 years ago I was taught to forget the
> initial "h" in words like hue, huge, humidity,
> humour etc. Is this not correct?
It is not correct. Most English speakers pronounce the 'h' in these
words.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Some 20 years ago I was taught to forget the
> initial "h" in words like hue, huge, humidity,
> humour etc. Is this not correct?
It is not correct. Most English speakers pronounce the 'h' in these
words.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Sep 29th 2003, 8:55 am
#39
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Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:44:34 +0200, Gernot Egger wrote:
> It's "ich" and not "ish".
> Ish ist the way French speakers say it.
Not exclusively, as you should know.
It is quite common, (although I suppose technically incorect Hochdeurtsch),
just watsh any German TV channel and within minutes you'll get loads of
examples of "-sh" over "-ch". "Schemie" (Chemie) being my favourite peeve.
Ich, may be "right" but "ish" is "immer und überall".
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
> It's "ich" and not "ish".
> Ish ist the way French speakers say it.
Not exclusively, as you should know.
It is quite common, (although I suppose technically incorect Hochdeurtsch),
just watsh any German TV channel and within minutes you'll get loads of
examples of "-sh" over "-ch". "Schemie" (Chemie) being my favourite peeve.
Ich, may be "right" but "ish" is "immer und überall".
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
Sep 29th 2003, 8:57 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
On 28 Sep 2003 14:24:39 -0700, Thomas Milligan wrote:
> I remember that a German textbook I used in college--and this was 35
> years ago--said that the closest English sound to the "ch" in the
> German "ich" was the initial "h" from the word "hue."
... now if my teachers had told me that, I'd have been a lot bertter off.
it took me ages to get that right.
Especially if you pronounce "hue" with a Welsh accent.
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
> I remember that a German textbook I used in college--and this was 35
> years ago--said that the closest English sound to the "ch" in the
> German "ich" was the initial "h" from the word "hue."
... now if my teachers had told me that, I'd have been a lot bertter off.
it took me ages to get that right.
Especially if you pronounce "hue" with a Welsh accent.
--
Tim.
If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.
Sep 29th 2003, 9:00 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
Thomas Adams <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] (Thomas Milligan) wrote:
>
> > I remember that a German textbook I used in college--and this was 35
> > years ago--said that the closest English sound to the "ch" in the
> > German "ich" was the initial "h" from the word "hue."
>
> ??? Sorry for getting sci.lang.translation'ish, but which initial "h"
> are you talking about? Some 20 years ago I was taught to forget the
> initial "h" in words like hue, huge, humidity, humour etc. Is this not
> correct?
This varies with dialect- it's not "incorrect" to pronounce the "h".
Americans often made fun of my Scot's accent when pronouncing such
words- also words beginning "wh."
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> [email protected] (Thomas Milligan) wrote:
>
> > I remember that a German textbook I used in college--and this was 35
> > years ago--said that the closest English sound to the "ch" in the
> > German "ich" was the initial "h" from the word "hue."
>
> ??? Sorry for getting sci.lang.translation'ish, but which initial "h"
> are you talking about? Some 20 years ago I was taught to forget the
> initial "h" in words like hue, huge, humidity, humour etc. Is this not
> correct?
This varies with dialect- it's not "incorrect" to pronounce the "h".
Americans often made fun of my Scot's accent when pronouncing such
words- also words beginning "wh."
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Sep 29th 2003, 9:10 am
#42
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Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
Tim Challenger" <"timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:44:34 +0200, Gernot Egger wrote:
>> It's "ich" and not "ish".
>> Ish ist the way French speakers say it.
> Not exclusively, as you should know.
> It is quite common, (although I suppose technically incorect
> Hochdeurtsch), just watsh any German TV channel and within minutes
> you'll get loads of examples of "-sh" over "-ch". "Schemie" (Chemie)
> being my favourite peeve.
> Ich, may be "right" but "ish" is "immer und überall".
Well, I am Austrian an "Schemie", "Schance" etc. are horrible and it is IMO
not Hochdeutsch, at least not what I would call Hochdeutsch. It is
Germany-German.
(BTW: That's one reason why I do not like to watch German TV channels. And
if you think about films on TV they will use "Chemie" and not "Schemie"!)
And IMO "ish" - more likely "isch" (if written in German) - is not
Hochdeutsch.
IMO a foreigner should learn a proper German first before thinking about
dialects.
lg Gernot
> On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:44:34 +0200, Gernot Egger wrote:
>> It's "ich" and not "ish".
>> Ish ist the way French speakers say it.
> Not exclusively, as you should know.
> It is quite common, (although I suppose technically incorect
> Hochdeurtsch), just watsh any German TV channel and within minutes
> you'll get loads of examples of "-sh" over "-ch". "Schemie" (Chemie)
> being my favourite peeve.
> Ich, may be "right" but "ish" is "immer und überall".
Well, I am Austrian an "Schemie", "Schance" etc. are horrible and it is IMO
not Hochdeutsch, at least not what I would call Hochdeutsch. It is
Germany-German.
(BTW: That's one reason why I do not like to watch German TV channels. And
if you think about films on TV they will use "Chemie" and not "Schemie"!)
And IMO "ish" - more likely "isch" (if written in German) - is not
Hochdeutsch.
IMO a foreigner should learn a proper German first before thinking about
dialects.
lg Gernot
Sep 29th 2003, 9:58 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
Jens Arne Maennig <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>.. .
> That would be grammatically nonsense or at least not Bavarian grammar.
> The common form would be "An Du(a)rschd hob i".
>
> Jens
Bavarian grammar does not always follow logic rules :-)
> That would be grammatically nonsense or at least not Bavarian grammar.
> The common form would be "An Du(a)rschd hob i".
>
> Jens
Bavarian grammar does not always follow logic rules :-)
Sep 29th 2003, 10:09 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
Gernot Egger wrote:
: Well, I am Austrian an "Schemie", "Schance" etc. are horrible and it is IMO
: not Hochdeutsch, at least not what I would call Hochdeutsch. It is
: Germany-German.
: IMO a foreigner should learn a proper German first before thinking about
: dialects.
And an Austrian should not talk about Germany's German before learning
about Germany and its dialects and languages :> At least I'd consider
myself living in Germany although I and I'd say also a few million
people around me say "Chemie", not "Kemie" nor "Schemie".
Regards,
soenk.e
PS: Correct pronounciation is in fact "Chemie". But who cares.
: Well, I am Austrian an "Schemie", "Schance" etc. are horrible and it is IMO
: not Hochdeutsch, at least not what I would call Hochdeutsch. It is
: Germany-German.
: IMO a foreigner should learn a proper German first before thinking about
: dialects.
And an Austrian should not talk about Germany's German before learning
about Germany and its dialects and languages :> At least I'd consider
myself living in Germany although I and I'd say also a few million
people around me say "Chemie", not "Kemie" nor "Schemie".
Regards,
soenk.e
PS: Correct pronounciation is in fact "Chemie". But who cares.
Sep 29th 2003, 10:22 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: German: ich or ish
Sönke Tesch wrote:
> I'd say also a few million
> people around me say "Chemie", not "Kemie" nor "Schemie".
I did not say that all Germans say "Schemie"!!!!
lg Gernot
> I'd say also a few million
> people around me say "Chemie", not "Kemie" nor "Schemie".
I did not say that all Germans say "Schemie"!!!!
lg Gernot