On 22 Aug 2005 13:30:47 -0700, "Pamela_23" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >thanks for the feedback. i will be traveling thru out russia (moscow
    >and st. petersburg). i did hear that the water there is really bad. i
    >am thinking of packing lots of bottled water in my suit case and then
    >hopefully i will find good bottled water there. i just remember my
    >friend telling me that in some countries they bottle tap water like
    >martin pointed out about greece. i wish there was some kind of easier
    >way to get fresh water. has anyone used anything else besides bottled
    >water? or have you just taken your chances?

You can add sterilising tablets to tap water if you are really
concerned. The water tastes of chlorine, but at least it's safe.
--
Martin

Hey, I found this great thing. There's this product call a steripen
- a water purifier. i take it with me when I'm traveling on
business, especially when I have to go overseas. It uses u-v light to
zap the water and kill the germs. i have used mine for the last two
years and haven't gotten sick once. i used to pack a ton of water
(bottled) in my suitcase, but it got to be a pain and was so heavy to
carry. plus i needed the space for clothes and other business files. i
found out about it thru a friend, so i thought i would pass along this
thought to you.

On 22 Aug 2005 13:49:49 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

    >Hey, I found this great thing. There's this product call a steripen
    >- a water purifier. i take it with me when I'm traveling on
    >business, especially when I have to go overseas. It uses u-v light to
    >zap the water and kill the germs. i have used mine for the last two
    >years and haven't gotten sick once. i used to pack a ton of water
    >(bottled) in my suitcase, but it got to be a pain and was so heavy to
    >carry. plus i needed the space for clothes and other business files. i
    >found out about it thru a friend, so i thought i would pass along this
    >thought to you.

I found this on the web ...
packinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/719/

We have tested SteriPEN only against bacteria, viruses and the
protozoa Cryptosporidium and Giardia. We have never tested against
worm eggs – so unfortunately I can not give you a definitive answer
with regard to UV treatment in this case. As to our pre-filter – we
make no microbiological claims about it as it is really just intended
to remove large particulates. The pore size is 4 microns by 4 microns
square – it is a nylon material comparable to a coffee filter.

While there is not a lot of literature on UV treatment of worm eggs,
you may be interested to look at the following web site:

http://parasitology.informatik.uni-w...91.html.linked

When reading this keep in mind that the UV wavelengths emitted by
SteriPEN are in the Mercury band with a primary energy output at 254
nanometers (in the UV-C range). Also, SteriPEN’s 1 liter treatment
time is 90 seconds and generally delivers over 100 milijoules/sq.cm.
during this dose. Below is a quote from the above site:

“The UVC lamp significantly inhibited the infectivity of taeniid eggs
in rats. The Bonferroni/Dunn test for the mean number of cysts in the
control group and the groups exposed to the UVC lamp was significant (
P<0.0001), except for the group at an exposure of 30 s (30 mJ/cm 2 at
254 nm). This means that the significant effect of the UVC lamp
commences at an exposure duration of 90 s (90 mJ/cm 2 at 254 nm).�

So, in a nutshell, I am sorry that I can not specifically point you to
SteriPEN testing on worm eggs. And we probably will not do this
testing in the future as it involves animal testing (we did animal
testing for Crypto and Giardia because there was no alternative,
however we decided we did not want to do animal testing again). But
for whatever it is worth, the above referenced link does indicate that
UV-C can have a disinfecting effect on worm eggs at the energy levels
SteriPEN provides.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Best regards,

Miles
--
Miles Maiden - CEO, CTO
Hydro-Photon, Inc.
P.O. Box 675
262 Ellsworth Rd.
Blue Hill, ME 04614

Voice (207) 374-5800
Fax (207) 374-5100
Toll Free (888) 826-6234

www.steripen.com

=================================
now, my turn again:

the email reply stated that the steripen prefilter had a pore size "4
microns by 4 microns square – it is a nylon material comparable to a
coffee filter." based upon info in a prev. post re: Isle Royale &
filter pore sizes, 25 microns was stated as the min. size for
filtering out E. granulosus. Sounds like the steripen pre-filter
should be able to handle the tape eggs.

In case anyone is doesn't already know & is interested, "taeniid" in
the above email reply refers to a tapeworm family (Taeniidae) which
includes Taenia saginata & Taenia solium, amongst others, which are
the beef & pork tapeworms, respectively. Their eggs are quite a bit
larger than E. granulosus (50%-100% larger if memory serves). The
quoted portion of the email reply indicates Steripen is effective
against the eggs at 90 seconds exposure UNDER A CONTROLLED TEST.
Haven't read the link yet, so i don't know how the controlled test
methodology compares to how one would use it in the field. Dr. J, or
another real scientist, would be a better one than i to read and
comment on the testing methodology referenced & factors that might
affect similar performance during use in the field. Therefore, i
intend to end my posts on this topic now.

Edited by pj at 06/14/2005 02:35:21 MDT.
PRINT
POSTED BY
Mike Storesund
(runemael ) SUBJECT Thanks ON 06/13/2005 14:34:46 MDT

PJ,
Thanks for all the legwork on this. Great job!

PRINT
POSTED BY
Dylan Skola
(phageghost ) SUBJECT Those wiley tapeworms ON 06/13/2005 20:00:48
MDT

I like that McNett advised you to consult www.backpackinglight.com.

As for the steri-pen, the authors mention that the outer layer of the
eggs of this and other parasitic worms are quite effective UV shields.
So while they do begin to see effects at steri-pen doses (90-100
mJ/cm2) under controlled conditions, it only cut the the number of
cysts by about 75 %. They didn't see complete inactivation until 2430
mJ/cm2, which would require a much heavier and bulkier unit than the
steri-pen.

On the other hand, as long as the prefilter didn't get punctured or
bypassed, I would feel pretty good about its ability to remove the
relatively large eggs before they got into the bottle.

Edited by phageghost at 06/13/2005 20:02:46 MDT.
PRINT
POSTED BY
John Shannon
(jshann ) SUBJECT Echinococcus infestation ON 06/14/2005
13:08:22 MDT

Here are a couple of references:

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1046.htm

http://www.emedicine.com/MED/topic629.htm

PRINT



--
Martin

"Pamela_23" <[email protected]> a écrit le lun., 22 août 2005
20:30:47 GMT:

    > thanks for the feedback. i will be traveling thru out russia (moscow
    > and st. petersburg). i did hear that the water there is really bad.

It is indeed bad, unless boiled. So you can drink tea without any fear.
Most Russians will have a purifyer at home.

Mineralnaya Voda - that's the Russian for bottled mineral water - from
Causasus is delicious. Available throughout any kisok in the city.

--
remplacez "lesptt" par "laposte" pour me joindre
substitute "laposte" for "lesptt" to reach me

Martin wrote:

    > Have you a machine in the corridor that sells half
    > litre bottles of beer too?

No. Only a half full beer crate in the basement and a fridge. A home
office has its advantages.

Jens

[email protected] wrote:
    > Pamela_23 wrote:

    >> i get sick drinking water
    >> when I visit relatives in a different state. i'm heading to europe
    >> for a month and am concerned about getting sick from the water.
    >
    > what state were your relatives in ?

http://www.wellnessgoods.com/canyoudrinkit.asp

Jens

mike o'sullivan writes:

    > The "purest" water you could buy is from Halfords. Trouble is, if you
    > drink it, eventually you die. All the essential minerals necessary to
    > life would be leeched out of your body.

This is mythology.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

James Silverton <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.net> wrote:

[]
    > I don't really doubt that tap water in most of the original EU
    > is essentially safe but I suspect it is safest to behave like
    > Europeans and use bottled water.

It depends on the Europeans. I don't drink bottled water at home, though
I sometimes filter the tap water. As a kid, the water tasted very good
where I lived, in both Scotland and Norway. I hated the water in
Edinburgh (a 'big city' by comparison to where I grew up) when I was at
school there, though I still drank it. I only turned away from tap water
when I moved to Philadelphia at age 18. It was heavily chlorinated, and
tasted vile. In Boston, where I lived longer, it was a bit better, and
fine after filtering.

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
photos at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer

"Pamela_23" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > does anyone have any tips or suggestions on what i should do about
    > drinking the water in foreign countries?? i get sick drinking water
    > when I visit relatives in a different state. i'm heading to europe
    > for a month and am concerned about getting sick from the water. any
    > info would be MUCH appreciated....

Drink only wine? 8-)

Pamela,
I assume that you are just one of those people who have a very sensitive
stomach. I'm not sure what I can offer you. I'm pretty much the opposite
and drink tap water where ever I travel with no ill effects*. Sometimes I do
get an upset stomach from eating foreign foods and use a combination of
Metamucil and Acidophilus for two days before and after flying to keep the
plumbing functioning properly. I understand that Pepto Bismol can help with
mild cases of food borne infections.

But sensitivity to water is tough. Since what is sold under the label of
"drinking water" varies widely from place to place, I might suggest that you
start drinking distilled water until you get used to it then buy distilled
water where every you go and carry your own water bottle. The reason for
this is that distilled water should be the same everywhere. I would hope
that this level of prevention would be unnecessary but I'm not really
familiar with your case. Maybe you could buy a little local bottled water
and test a bit to see how you do with it.

*Personally, I think that the convincing of the American public that tap
water is dangerous is the biggest scam in history. (Excluding New Orleans
and a few other places that get their water from polluted sources.)
--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net

On 22 Aug 2005 13:30:47 -0700, "Pamela_23" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >thanks for the feedback. i will be traveling thru out russia (moscow
    >and st. petersburg). i did hear that the water there is really bad. i
    >am thinking of packing lots of bottled water in my suit case and then
    >hopefully i will find good bottled water there. i just remember my
    >friend telling me that in some countries they bottle tap water like
    >martin pointed out about greece. i wish there was some kind of easier
    >way to get fresh water. has anyone used anything else besides bottled
    >water? or have you just taken your chances?

Bottled water should always be just fine. Most countries have bottled
water made by subsiduries of Coca Cola and the like, if you feel more
comfortable with them.

Are you really sure it's the water that is making you sick when you
travel? A mere change in the environment and food is enough to upset
some people.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Mxsmanic wrote:

    > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
    >
    >
    >>Tapwater in most civilized countries is
    >>considered safe, but if you REALLY have such a
    >>super-sensitive digestive system, you can buy bottled water
    >>at any shop selling souvenirs and sundries (assumimg you
    >>don't want to pay mini-bar prices at your hotel).
    >
    >
    > Keep in mind that bottled water can upset sensitive tummies, too.
    > Some mineral waters can have a laxative or diuretic effect, depending
    > on what they contain.

Good point, Mixi - can one buy "distilled" water in Europe?
(Other than as a medical supply?)
    >
    > --
    > Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Pamela_23 wrote:

    > thanks for the feedback. i will be traveling thru out russia (moscow
    > and st. petersburg). i did hear that the water there is really bad. i
    > am thinking of packing lots of bottled water in my suit case and then
    > hopefully i will find good bottled water there. i just remember my
    > friend telling me that in some countries they bottle tap water like
    > martin pointed out about greece. i wish there was some kind of easier
    > way to get fresh water. has anyone used anything else besides bottled
    > water? or have you just taken your chances?

Some of the travel supply catalogs offer various
paraphernalia for "purifying" water - Magellan's is one
company. Take a look at
http://www.magellans.com/store/Healt...&page_number=1
Certainly carrying a gedget with you would not be as
space-consuming as actual bottled water (assuming they
didn't accuse you fo trying to import it for sale, and
confiscate it).
    >

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:27:03 +0100, James Silverton wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):

    > I don't really doubt that tap water in most of the original EU is essentially

    > safe but I suspect it is safest to behave like Europeans and use bottled
    > water. However, members of my family *have* suffered digestive upsets
    > after drinking tap water there

I think I'm a European but I never use bottled water.

I wonder how you can be sure that the problems arose from the water they
drank, or the food they ate, or the things they touched, or even the air they
breathed.

--
Mike Lane (UK North Yorkshire)
To contact me replace invalid with mike underscore lane

[email protected] wrote:

    > Hey, I found this great thing. There's this product call a steripen
    > - a water purifier. i take it with me when I'm traveling on
    > business, especially when I have to go overseas. It uses u-v light to
    > zap the water and kill the germs. i have used mine for the last two
    > years and haven't gotten sick once. i used to pack a ton of water
    > (bottled) in my suitcase, but it got to be a pain and was so heavy to
    > carry. plus i needed the space for clothes and other business files. i
    > found out about it thru a friend, so i thought i would pass along this
    > thought to you.

Yes, that's one of the items suggested by Magellan's catalog
(and other internet sources, I'm sure).
http://www.magellans.com/store/Healt...&page_number=1
    >

    >>> Tap water is safe in Northern Europe.
    >> Not quite all of northern Europe. The tap water in St Petersburg
    >> is contaminated by a rather nasty parasite called Giardia that
    >> can give you a really bad case of montezumas revenge that can last
    >> for weeks.
    > North West Europe? :-)

Giardia occurs in the Scottish Highlands too, though not as badly
as St Petersburg and in *most* places the filtration applied to tap
water is adequate.

I've had that once from the tap water in Urfa. Not fun and it took
second-line antibiotics to kill it off.

Somewhere I may still have a friend's photo of her bath full of
St Petersburg water. It looked like she was about to bathe in
beer. How come this hasn't been fixed in the 300-odd years the
city has been in existence?

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557