French question???????
May 8th 2003, 4:13 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
On Wed, 07 May 2003 20:05:14 GMT, "Rojosh" wrote:
> I just returned from Paris, where I stayed for 11 days. I was treated
>very well (as usual) so forget the bullshit some posters are spewing.
Glad to hear you visited every part of France, met every French
person, and interviewed them. Personally I don't believe there's much
problem in France, but I always find it hiliarious the way a small
amount of experience makes posters here think they have all the
universal answers for everyone.
> I just returned from Paris, where I stayed for 11 days. I was treated
>very well (as usual) so forget the bullshit some posters are spewing.
Glad to hear you visited every part of France, met every French
person, and interviewed them. Personally I don't believe there's much
problem in France, but I always find it hiliarious the way a small
amount of experience makes posters here think they have all the
universal answers for everyone.
May 8th 2003, 5:25 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
from north Africa, french indies (Guadeloupe, Martinique etc...), la
Reunion island, and New Caledonia island
Alain
"Rojosh" a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> I just returned from Paris, where I stayed for 11 days. I was
treated
> very well (as usual) so forget the bullshit some posters are spewing.
> My question is this, why are so many French people dark skinned? I
mean
> excluding Negroes, Asians, Indians, and others, many French are dark
with
> brown eyes and black hair. Where does that come from?
> --
> Robbie
> Dump Bush in 2004!
Reunion island, and New Caledonia island
Alain
"Rojosh" a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
> I just returned from Paris, where I stayed for 11 days. I was
treated
> very well (as usual) so forget the bullshit some posters are spewing.
> My question is this, why are so many French people dark skinned? I
mean
> excluding Negroes, Asians, Indians, and others, many French are dark
with
> brown eyes and black hair. Where does that come from?
> --
> Robbie
> Dump Bush in 2004!
May 8th 2003, 6:43 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
"John Stolz" wrote in message news:...
> Mxsmanic wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "John Stolz" a écrit dans le message
> de
> > news: [email protected]...
> >
> > > Because France is a country, not a racial group.
> > > Such a racial mix is true of practically every
> > > country in Europe, and the US, and Australia, and
> > > Brazil , and, and.....
> >
> > That may be, but most countries have an "average" native with an
> > identifiable look. In France, the "average" person has dark hair and
> eyes,
> > and light skin, and is Catholic. In the U.S., the "average" person has
> > blondish hair and light eyes, with light skin, and is Protestant. There
> are
> > many exceptions, but that doesn't mean that no trends emerge.
> >
> >
> I can't imagine what data this supposition is based on or what 'average'
> means in this context.
My personal guess is that the poster really is refering to more of
a plurality. The end result being that what they describe ends up
being about 20 - 30% of the population. Confused even more by the
fact that they are describing collections of unrelated features.
The inclusion or exclusion of features can result in wide swings
in the magnitude (and inclusion in) this plurality.
> Mxsmanic wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "John Stolz" a écrit dans le message
> de
> > news: [email protected]...
> >
> > > Because France is a country, not a racial group.
> > > Such a racial mix is true of practically every
> > > country in Europe, and the US, and Australia, and
> > > Brazil , and, and.....
> >
> > That may be, but most countries have an "average" native with an
> > identifiable look. In France, the "average" person has dark hair and
> eyes,
> > and light skin, and is Catholic. In the U.S., the "average" person has
> > blondish hair and light eyes, with light skin, and is Protestant. There
> are
> > many exceptions, but that doesn't mean that no trends emerge.
> >
> >
> I can't imagine what data this supposition is based on or what 'average'
> means in this context.
My personal guess is that the poster really is refering to more of
a plurality. The end result being that what they describe ends up
being about 20 - 30% of the population. Confused even more by the
fact that they are describing collections of unrelated features.
The inclusion or exclusion of features can result in wide swings
in the magnitude (and inclusion in) this plurality.
May 8th 2003, 8:35 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
"J-Ph" a écrit dans le message de
news: [email protected]...
> - ethnic : what do you mean by ethnic ?
Of common genetic ancestry.
> The average native from Normandy (for example) looks
> much more like the average native from Britan than like
> the average Mexican.
The average native from most parts of France looks more Italian or Spanish
than Norwegian or Dutch.
news: [email protected]...
> - ethnic : what do you mean by ethnic ?
Of common genetic ancestry.
> The average native from Normandy (for example) looks
> much more like the average native from Britan than like
> the average Mexican.
The average native from most parts of France looks more Italian or Spanish
than Norwegian or Dutch.
May 8th 2003, 8:36 pm
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
"John Stolz" a écrit dans le message de
news: [email protected]...
> I can't imagine what data this supposition is
> based on or what 'average' means in this context.
It is based on observation.
news: [email protected]...
> I can't imagine what data this supposition is
> based on or what 'average' means in this context.
It is based on observation.
May 8th 2003, 8:37 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
> >>why are so many French people dark skinned?
> Curiously the number of Black slaves...
The French colonials certainly "freely" exchanged genes with their
slaves, as did the Spanish and English (though in the case of the
Spanish, the slaves were mostly Native Americans rather than
Africans). However, I definitely think the French (and my wife who is
Spanish says simular things about the Spanish), that being French is
historically more about cultural superiority as opposed to racial
superiority. On the other hand, in the US the English-speaking slave
owners fathered tons of children with their slaves, however, the US
system made all of the offspring (no matter how white they were) into
blacks (and during slavery, into slaves). After the end of slavery,
these mixed blood folks mixed in with the black population, and no
longer with the white population. It is, indeed, curious that to the
Englishmen, a person of English-African blood (or of just about any
other mixture) is African, not English, but a person of French-African
blood can be accepted as being French.
The difference between Spanish and English culture is very clear
regarding race. E.g., in grad school I had a friend from Panama (which
meant she spoke both Spanish and English fluently), who if you saw her
on the street at a distant and you needed to classify her, you would
probably classify her as black. Yet she never dated a black Americans,
but associated almost exclusively with students from other
Spanish-speaking countries (including Spain) and on equal terms. And
all my other experiences confirm this attitude. So in my mind and
based on my experiences, the French and Spanish definitely think of
themselves more in cultural terms than in racial terms.
However, in spite of these different ways of viewing the world, if one
wanted to avoid the impression that the French or Spanish are somehow
better than the English or Anglo-Americans, one could always might
point out that in most American countries in which Europeans mixed
with other cultures, the whiter one is the more money one has or can
earn (including in Brazil where the "black" on average earns half of
what a "white" does). And no one is generally worse off than a pure
blood Native American who hasn't adopted Euro-American culture.
See "Sugar Cane Alley" by Euhzan Palcy (1980's; filmed in Martinique)
for a great story about two children, one a "black" being raised by
his grandmother and struggling to get admitted into the educational
system based on merit, the other a "mulatto" whose French father has
made his entry into the educational system possible, but who on his
deathbed refuses to take the extra step and officially recognize his
son as his heir.
> Curiously the number of Black slaves...
The French colonials certainly "freely" exchanged genes with their
slaves, as did the Spanish and English (though in the case of the
Spanish, the slaves were mostly Native Americans rather than
Africans). However, I definitely think the French (and my wife who is
Spanish says simular things about the Spanish), that being French is
historically more about cultural superiority as opposed to racial
superiority. On the other hand, in the US the English-speaking slave
owners fathered tons of children with their slaves, however, the US
system made all of the offspring (no matter how white they were) into
blacks (and during slavery, into slaves). After the end of slavery,
these mixed blood folks mixed in with the black population, and no
longer with the white population. It is, indeed, curious that to the
Englishmen, a person of English-African blood (or of just about any
other mixture) is African, not English, but a person of French-African
blood can be accepted as being French.
The difference between Spanish and English culture is very clear
regarding race. E.g., in grad school I had a friend from Panama (which
meant she spoke both Spanish and English fluently), who if you saw her
on the street at a distant and you needed to classify her, you would
probably classify her as black. Yet she never dated a black Americans,
but associated almost exclusively with students from other
Spanish-speaking countries (including Spain) and on equal terms. And
all my other experiences confirm this attitude. So in my mind and
based on my experiences, the French and Spanish definitely think of
themselves more in cultural terms than in racial terms.
However, in spite of these different ways of viewing the world, if one
wanted to avoid the impression that the French or Spanish are somehow
better than the English or Anglo-Americans, one could always might
point out that in most American countries in which Europeans mixed
with other cultures, the whiter one is the more money one has or can
earn (including in Brazil where the "black" on average earns half of
what a "white" does). And no one is generally worse off than a pure
blood Native American who hasn't adopted Euro-American culture.
See "Sugar Cane Alley" by Euhzan Palcy (1980's; filmed in Martinique)
for a great story about two children, one a "black" being raised by
his grandmother and struggling to get admitted into the educational
system based on merit, the other a "mulatto" whose French father has
made his entry into the educational system possible, but who on his
deathbed refuses to take the extra step and officially recognize his
son as his heir.
May 8th 2003, 8:39 pm
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
"Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message de news:
BAE01CA4.1CDF8%[email protected]...
> At one time a darker hue was not appreciated,
> in particular in the Victorian period. Now some
> take all sorts of tan inducing chemical products
> to darken the skin a bit. A tan is considered
> to be a "healthy look".
In Europe, but not in Africa. Africans prefer exactly the opposite, and
even apply chemicals to their skin to lighten it. In fact, recent
restrictions placed on photo film developing chemicals in France are
partially based on the tendency of many Africans to apply hydroquinone (the
main ingredient in many photo developers) to their skin to lighten it.
Unfortunately, hydroquinone is toxic when applied carelessly and liberally
directly to the skin--some people react to it very badly.
BAE01CA4.1CDF8%[email protected]...
> At one time a darker hue was not appreciated,
> in particular in the Victorian period. Now some
> take all sorts of tan inducing chemical products
> to darken the skin a bit. A tan is considered
> to be a "healthy look".
In Europe, but not in Africa. Africans prefer exactly the opposite, and
even apply chemicals to their skin to lighten it. In fact, recent
restrictions placed on photo film developing chemicals in France are
partially based on the tendency of many Africans to apply hydroquinone (the
main ingredient in many photo developers) to their skin to lighten it.
Unfortunately, hydroquinone is toxic when applied carelessly and liberally
directly to the skin--some people react to it very badly.
May 8th 2003, 8:40 pm
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
"Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message de news:
BAE01D1D.1CDF9%[email protected]...
> Kirk Douglas was the perfect Viking. And Jewish!
Christopher Lambert played a Scot with a French accent, and Sean Connery a
Spaniard from Egypt with a Scottish accent, in _The Highlander_--and since
then, nothing amazes me on screen.
BAE01D1D.1CDF9%[email protected]...
> Kirk Douglas was the perfect Viking. And Jewish!
Christopher Lambert played a Scot with a French accent, and Sean Connery a
Spaniard from Egypt with a Scottish accent, in _The Highlander_--and since
then, nothing amazes me on screen.
May 8th 2003, 9:47 pm
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
"Mxsmanic" a écrit dans le message news:
[email protected]...
> The average native from most parts of France looks more Italian or Spanish
> than Norwegian or Dutch.
but it is not related to the language they speak.
JPh
[email protected]...
> The average native from most parts of France looks more Italian or Spanish
> than Norwegian or Dutch.
but it is not related to the language they speak.
JPh
May 8th 2003, 10:12 pm
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
>The average native from most parts of France looks more Italian or Spanish
>than Norwegian or Dutch.
That's true. And it's not just because it's mediterranean, because half of
France is at the same altitude of Austria and German, and you still look
more a like with Italians and spanish, Although maybe not so dark and with
much more blond people of course, the northen influence is higher, but just
saying that is mediterranean doesn't justified, Paris is not very
mediderranean is it? And the people, French people (not emigrants or sons of
emigrants) are darker then Germans or Inglish or whetever.
Just my opinion.
>than Norwegian or Dutch.
That's true. And it's not just because it's mediterranean, because half of
France is at the same altitude of Austria and German, and you still look
more a like with Italians and spanish, Although maybe not so dark and with
much more blond people of course, the northen influence is higher, but just
saying that is mediterranean doesn't justified, Paris is not very
mediderranean is it? And the people, French people (not emigrants or sons of
emigrants) are darker then Germans or Inglish or whetever.
Just my opinion.
May 8th 2003, 11:02 pm
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
In article , [email protected]
(Mxsmanic) wrote:
> "Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message de news:
> BAE01D1D.1CDF9%[email protected]...
>
> > Kirk Douglas was the perfect Viking. And Jewish!
>
> Christopher Lambert played a Scot with a French accent, and Sean
> Connery a
> Spaniard from Egypt with a Scottish accent, in _The Highlander_--and
> since
> then, nothing amazes me on screen.
But dear old Keanu's "English" accent in Dracula was...um...whatever the
aural equivalent may be of "a sight to behold"!
(Mxsmanic) wrote:
> "Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message de news:
> BAE01D1D.1CDF9%[email protected]...
>
> > Kirk Douglas was the perfect Viking. And Jewish!
>
> Christopher Lambert played a Scot with a French accent, and Sean
> Connery a
> Spaniard from Egypt with a Scottish accent, in _The Highlander_--and
> since
> then, nothing amazes me on screen.
But dear old Keanu's "English" accent in Dracula was...um...whatever the
aural equivalent may be of "a sight to behold"!
May 8th 2003, 11:30 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
"J-Ph" a écrit dans le message de
news: [email protected]...
> but it is not related to the language they speak.
So?
news: [email protected]...
> but it is not related to the language they speak.
So?
May 9th 2003, 3:50 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
Tim wrote:
>
> > "Zé Bastos" a écrit dans le message news:
> > [email protected]...
> >> French are Latins, maybe the less of the latin nations, but they are
> > latins,
> >> with some influentions of other peoples (every body has, I think), but
> > they
> >> are Latins.
>
> Tell that to the Bretons.
But are they predominately brunettes? I had the idea they tended more
toward fair skin and lighter colored hair.
> Tim.
>
> > "Zé Bastos" a écrit dans le message news:
> > [email protected]...
> >> French are Latins, maybe the less of the latin nations, but they are
> > latins,
> >> with some influentions of other peoples (every body has, I think), but
> > they
> >> are Latins.
>
> Tell that to the Bretons.
But are they predominately brunettes? I had the idea they tended more
toward fair skin and lighter colored hair.
> Tim.
May 9th 2003, 3:57 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
[email protected] wrote:
>
> >>>>>
>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> According to whose definition? I know of no people who refer to
> themselves as "Negroes"
Oh for God's sake, take the chip off your shoulder! There have, from
time to time, been offensive racist threads here, but this hardly
appears to be one of them. (FWIW, whether it is the currently
"politically correct" term or not, everyone else here appears to have
understood the meaning of the word.)
>
> >>>>>
>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> According to whose definition? I know of no people who refer to
> themselves as "Negroes"
Oh for God's sake, take the chip off your shoulder! There have, from
time to time, been offensive racist threads here, but this hardly
appears to be one of them. (FWIW, whether it is the currently
"politically correct" term or not, everyone else here appears to have
understood the meaning of the word.)
May 9th 2003, 4:00 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French question???????
Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> "Karen Kotow" a écrit dans le message de news:
> [email protected]...
>
> > I am guessing that French was once under the
> > Indian rule, Indo-France and that is possibly why.
>
> When was France ruled by India?
Could she be confusing language roots? Isn't the prehistoric
predecessor of most European tongues known as "Indo-European"?
>
> "Karen Kotow" a écrit dans le message de news:
> [email protected]...
>
> > I am guessing that French was once under the
> > Indian rule, Indo-France and that is possibly why.
>
> When was France ruled by India?
Could she be confusing language roots? Isn't the prehistoric
predecessor of most European tongues known as "Indo-European"?