>>> Oh no, when you arrive in the USA you do not give your fingerprints
    >>> to the local police, you give them to the federal ones, and that data
    >>> is shared with *all* local police!
    >> Do you object to the use of a passport for proof of identification too?
    > No, because a passport is a document whose content is mutually agreed
    > between countries. Fingerprints are taken as a one way measure, is of no
    > effective use whatsoever, except to let the US citizen think the
    > "administration" is in charge...

I agree. Also, the American government has yet to create either
a privacy protection scheme or a scheme where mistakes can be
corrected. Identity theft is a growing business here and I simply do
not trust our government to keep my data secret. The Congress has
also failed to prevent our data from being shipped overseas without
our specific permission, another part of a needed privacy policy.


Pete

    >> I think he is quite right. If you are polite and friendly, the French
    >> are polite and friendly back. If they perceive you as rude, they see
    >> no reason to be polite or friendly. It matters not whether you are a
    >> foreigner or a native.
    > I would second that Colin. Polite interchange is much more common in
    > France than in the US. We may be friendly (in the US) but we are not
    > always polite about it.

That depends entirely on where you live. In Boston and most of the
East Coast, rudeness is common. In the middle of the USA, e.g.
Wichita or Omaha, people are much friendlier. Small towns and cities
are much friendlier and polite than large cities as a rule.


Pete

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:02:51 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>>> Oh no, when you arrive in the USA you do not give your fingerprints
    >>>> to the local police, you give them to the federal ones, and that data
    >>>> is shared with *all* local police!
    >>> Do you object to the use of a passport for proof of identification too?
    >> No, because a passport is a document whose content is mutually agreed
    >> between countries. Fingerprints are taken as a one way measure, is of no
    >> effective use whatsoever, except to let the US citizen think the
    >> "administration" is in charge...
    >I agree. Also, the American government has yet to create either
    >a privacy protection scheme or a scheme where mistakes can be
    >corrected. Identity theft is a growing business here and I simply do
    >not trust our government to keep my data secret. The Congress has
    >also failed to prevent our data from being shipped overseas without
    >our specific permission, another part of a needed privacy policy.
    >Pete

You would because you're as dumb as this Belgian who can just stay
home if he doesn't like it. What do you have to hide that you are so
afraid?

    >> There's an exception to every rule isn't there?
    >I have found a great number of these "exceptions." Perhaps because I don't
    >have the kind of attitude problem you do.
    >Donna Evleth


Funny no one else does, including the French government, huh?

Dans l'article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] a écrit :


    >>> The French treat tourists the same way they treat each other.
    >>Maxie, I have not noticed this. But perhaps this is because I go places
    >>that you don't, thus meeting people that you would not.
    >>Yesterday evening we went to dinner for the first time at a restaurant in
    >>the 11th arrondissement, you know, the place you described as one of the
    >>last places in Paris that you would send anyone to. The name of the
    >>restaurant is La Dame Brune, it is located at 287 rue du Faubourg
    >>St-Antoine, not far from Nation. La Dame Brune, whose real name is Claude,
    >>runs the restaurant, her husband, Dave, who is British, is the bartender.
    >>She speaks good English, loves Americans, was absolutely charming to us.
    >>The whole atmosphere of the place is warm, friendly neighborhood bistro.
    >>The food is good too. I had tête de veau, which is one of my real
    >>favorites, although not something a typical American would order. My
    >>husband Earl had the souris d'agneau, which is the end of the leg of lamb,
    >>cooked well done with herbs and spices. He was very happy with it. I was
    >>tempted by some of the other things as well, notably the cod with garlic and
    >>olive oil, and the kidneys in mustard sauce. Oh well, next time, since we
    >>surely will go back.
    >>Donna Evleth
    > There's an exception to every rule isn't there?

I have found a great number of these "exceptions." Perhaps because I don't
have the kind of attitude problem you do.

Donna Evleth

[email protected] writes:

    > What do you have to hide that you are so afraid?

Your logic is flawed. One need not have anything to hide in order to
desire respect for privacy.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > [email protected] writes:
    >
    >> What do you have to hide that you are so afraid?
    >
    > Your logic is flawed. One need not have anything to hide in order to
    > desire respect for privacy.
    >

Just as one need not be hiding a cache of ak 47's to oppose gun
registration. (and it occurs to me that the stricter control of arms
would be a helpful tool wouldn't it?)

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:06:51 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "Pete" <[email protected]>
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... >> I think he is quite right. If you are polite and friendly, the French
... >> are polite and friendly back. If they perceive you as rude, they see
... >> no reason to be polite or friendly. It matters not whether you are a
... >> foreigner or a native.
... >
... > I would second that Colin. Polite interchange is much more common in
... > France than in the US. We may be friendly (in the US) but we are not
... > always polite about it.
...
... That depends entirely on where you live. In Boston and most of the
... East Coast, rudeness is common.

But are they rude to people who are polite to them ?

<[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
    >>> The French treat tourists the same way they treat each other.
    >>Maxie, I have not noticed this. But perhaps this is because I go places
    >>that you don't, thus meeting people that you would not.
    >> [...]
    >>Donna Evleth
    > There's an exception to every rule isn't there?

That's right, you wrote something relevant.

[email protected] wrote:

    >"Paris' main airport Charles de Gaulle/Roissy, which handles almost 50
    >million passengers a year, was singled out for a particular slating.
    >Surly staff, slow baggage handlers, a lack of "Welcome to France"
    >signs, <blah de blah..>"

My personal experiences don't square with the rest of the article (but
then most of my travel in France has been to places other than Paris).
However I have to agree that CDG gives a terrible impression.

Don't just take my word for it: for example see
http://www.airlinequality.com/Airpor..._forum/cdg.htm



--
Cases heard in U.S. civil and criminal courts as posted on the
American Bar Association's online magazine:
* Schmuck v. Dumm
* Gerald Mayo v. Satan and His Staff
* State v. Big Hair
* United States of America v. 2,116 Boxes of Boned
Beef, Weighing Approx. 154,121 Pounds, and 541 Boxes
of Offal, Weighing Approximately 17,732 pounds

jcoulter writes:

    > Just as one need not be hiding a cache of ak 47's to oppose gun
    > registration.

Exactly.

    > ... and it occurs to me that the stricter control of arms
    > would be a helpful tool wouldn't it?

A helpful tool for what?

Guns are a problem when their ready availability is combined with an
inherently violent culture, as in the United States. Ready availability
alone isn't a problem.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

    >> "Our attitude problem is not something to be proud of, says Paris
    >> politician"
    >> "Our bad image in this area, the arrogance we are accused of, our
    >> refusal to speak foreign languages, the sense we give that it's a
    >> great honour to visit us are among the ugly facts of which we should
    >> not be proud," reads the first paragraph of his report, commissioned
    >> by the government."
    >> "They have to learn that the tourist is not a nuisance but a benefit.
    >> "
    > The French treat tourists the same way they treat each other.

From my own observations, I would most definitely agree. People-watching is
one of the more fun things I do when I travel, and I must admit it was
eye-opening, in Paris, watching hotel staff berate French tourists in a
manner that I, as a visiting American, did not experience.

But regarding the report referenced, I also must wholeheartedly agree that
CDG doesn't show France putting its best foot forward. One feels like a rat
in a maze the first time there, only rats can at least smell their way to
the door/cheese.

On my last visit, I had my bike with me so I couldn't take the escalator
down to the level with ground transportation. Nor could anybody else with a
bike, which, at the time, was maybe 35-50 people. One small elevator. No
ramps. No way to get off that level aside from the one small elevator.
People were literally waiting an hour in an outrageously-long line that
snaked (as all lines at CDG snake) in & out of all manner of working areas,
severely disrupting people trying to get around.

On my visit before that one, the baggage inspectors were having a great deal
of fun having people open up their bike boxes and spread everything (and I
mean everything... from that point on, I wash all my laundry *before*
leaving!) out on the floor. It was really quite a show, there among the
huge crowd of people trying to get someplace, without stepping on someone's
underwear. But there was little rhyme or reason to who got to be inspected;
I got through with a smile, even though my bike box is big enough to put two
bikes & a body into.

And those bizarre tubes in the middle, where you have to go up to go down...
and the passport line confusion (I've not yet seen anything to organize the
large numbers of people waiting to get through passport control, and the
lines often stack up into the people-mover bringing people in from one of
the terminals).

On the other hand, now that I feel I've mastered CDG, I almost don't want it
to change!

However, as far as rudeness at the airport goes, I generally haven't found
that to be the case. People have been pretty helpful, regardless of which
airline's employees they were.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Sam writes:
    >> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...0/wfranc10.xml
    >> "Our attitude problem is not something to be proud of, says Paris
    >> politician"
    >> "Our bad image in this area, the arrogance we are accused of, our
    >> refusal to speak foreign languages, the sense we give that it's a
    >> great honour to visit us are among the ugly facts of which we should
    >> not be proud," reads the first paragraph of his report, commissioned
    >> by the government."
    >> "They have to learn that the tourist is not a nuisance but a benefit.
    >> "
    > The French treat tourists the same way they treat each other.
    > --
    > Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 08:08:48 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

    >>>The French treat tourists the same way they treat each other.
    >>"Paris' main airport Charles de Gaulle/Roissy, which handles almost 50
    >>million passengers a year, was singled out for a particular slating.
    >>Surly staff, slow baggage handlers, a lack of "Welcome to France"
    >>signs, <blah de blah..>"
    >
    > What makes you think they welcome anyone to France?
    >
    >>At least you can't accuse the French of being hypocrites. :-)
    >
    > You can't? You mean criticizing us for being in Iraq after over a
    > dozen resolutions while having invaded various African countries more
    > that 30 times since 1960 without any UN participation whatsoever,
    > including the Ivory Coast where they replaced a democratically elected
    > government while the Iraq invasion was going on, doesn't qualify?

What's that got to do with a lack of "Welcome to France" signs in CdG
airport?

--
Tim C.

    > I'll take the fingerprints myself, which are at least
    > legitimate anti-terrorist measures.

Debatable.
--
Tim C.

Magda wrote:

    > On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:06:51 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "Pete" <[email protected]>
    > arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    >
    > ... >> I think he is quite right. If you are polite and friendly, the French
    > ... >> are polite and friendly back. If they perceive you as rude, they see
    > ... >> no reason to be polite or friendly. It matters not whether you are a
    > ... >> foreigner or a native.
    > ... >
    > ... > I would second that Colin. Polite interchange is much more common in
    > ... > France than in the US. We may be friendly (in the US) but we are not
    > ... > always polite about it.
    > ...
    > ... That depends entirely on where you live. In Boston and most of the
    > ... East Coast, rudeness is common.
    >
    > But are they rude to people who are polite to them ?
    >
I lived all my life in and around Boston, until moving to France last
year. I never thought people in Boston were rude or impolite. They may
be a bit more reserved, and perhaps don't treat you like a best friend
after knowing you for 1 minute. But that's not rude.

A few years ago I read an article in perhaps The Nation where they
compared treatment of panhandlers in New York and in a small town in the
Midwest. They were investigating not how people reacted to the first
panhaldner, but to the 4th or 5th one they met in a certain small amount
of time. Invariably, the New Yorkers were more polite.