Tim Challenger

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:58:55 +0100, The Reids wrote:

    > Following up to Miguel Cruz
    >
    >>Yes, that's why I posed it as a question and pre-acknowledged my potential
    >>stupidity.
    >
    > slip up on usenet and everyone dives in to clobber you!

That's why we're all here, "schadenfreude".
--
Tim C.

Frank F. Matthews

Alas, not in the US. Teachers, police and others with significant
contact with the public aren't on the list only medical persons. As
much as the list matters. It now turns out that many Congress twerps
got free shots without checks. I guess that it's really really
important that they stay out of bed to collect money - Oh I mean
monitor the situation.

Tim Challenger wrote:

    > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:32:35 GMT, Frank F. Matthews wrote:

    >>I've found it strange that they recommend vaccinating medical folks
    >>because of exposure but ignore elementary school teachers.

    > Because the children should have been vaccinated already?
    > Teachers generally or on the priority 'list', at least here. iirc.

Frank F. Matthews

Earl Evleth wrote:

    > in article [email protected], Frank F. Matthews at
    > [email protected] wrote on 21/10/04 5:46:

    >>Refusal to set a price level that would attract enough providers is one
    >>of the mistakes that I blame on the current administration. While the
    >>problem has been developing for a while it has been recently that the
    >>clear warnings have come. While the per shot price is small the market
    >>is significant.

    > The IHT this morning reprinted a NY Times editorial which pretty much
    > points out the administrations faults. Having half the shots manufactured
    > outside the country and not having control by the FDA was the real problem.
    > Earl

And a problem with warnings for several years.

In another interesting article today it was pointed out that a doctor
without ethics managed to help bunches of Congress twerps to avoid the
priority system and get unjustified shots. Twerps from both parties.

At least my medical clinic is managing to stick to the priority list.
They are so short that they have restricted the access to priority
continuing patients. No outside drop ins. I suspect that they aren't
happy since outside immunization does make them money but, at least,
they have ethics.

Frank F. Matthews

Until you have to dump millions in bad stock.

Tim Challenger wrote:

    > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:46:06 GMT, Frank F. Matthews wrote:

    >>>We were sitting at dinner the other night with a visiting American
    >>>who pays $90/month for his anti-cholesterol drug alone. How does
    >>>that compare with a single $7 flu shot?

    > Most common-or-garden 'flu vaccines are relatively cheap to produce.

Frank F. Matthews

And please Tim, if you are going to trim try to get the attributions
straight. If I had said what you quoted it would be prefixed >> and not
>>>. The dinner comment was from Earl.

Tim Challenger wrote:

    > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:46:06 GMT, Frank F. Matthews wrote:

    >>>We were sitting at dinner the other night with a visiting American
    >>>who pays $90/month for his anti-cholesterol drug alone. How does
    >>>that compare with a single $7 flu shot?

    > Most common-or-garden 'flu vaccines are relatively cheap to produce.

Gregory Morrow

Frank F. Matthews wrote:

    > At least my medical clinic is managing to stick to the priority list.
    > They are so short that they have restricted the access to priority
    > continuing patients. No outside drop ins. I suspect that they aren't
    > happy since outside immunization does make them money but, at least,
    > they have ethics.


Heard this morning that some places are now holding lotteries for flu
shots...

--
Best
Greg

Gordon Forbess

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:10:48 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Alas, not in the US. Teachers, police and others with significant
    >contact with the public aren't on the list only medical persons.

It often needs to be pointed out here that neither the US or Europe is
a monolith. My wife is a teacher and, along with all teachers in her
school district who didn't decline it, was administered a flu shot by
the district nurse.

Gordon

Frank F. Matthews

If it was in the US and after the shortage was generated about 2 weeks
ago they were then violating the published standards. And I suspect the
nurse was being fairly unethical. Understandable for sure but according
to the feds putting the weak & vulnerable at risk. Just like the
Congress twerps.

Gordon Forbess wrote:

    > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:10:48 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>Alas, not in the US. Teachers, police and others with significant
    >>contact with the public aren't on the list only medical persons.

    > It often needs to be pointed out here that neither the US or Europe is
    > a monolith. My wife is a teacher and, along with all teachers in her
    > school district who didn't decline it, was administered a flu shot by
    > the district nurse.
    > Gordon

Gordon Forbess

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:59:55 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >If it was in the US and after the shortage was generated about 2 weeks
    >ago they were then violating the published standards. And I suspect the
    >nurse was being fairly unethical. Understandable for sure but according
    >to the feds putting the weak & vulnerable at risk. Just like the
    >Congress twerps.

The number of doses of vaccine given at many local school districts
were contracted for months ago and already on hand. As quickly as the
state is making rules and (now) setting penalties for violating them,
it has yet to organize a mechanism for reselling the unused doses.
The result will be, according to a local clinic director, thousands of
doses unsold and discarded at the end of flu season.

Gordon

Frank F. Matthews

Gordon Forbess wrote:

    > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:59:55 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>If it was in the US and after the shortage was generated about 2 weeks
    >>ago they were then violating the published standards. And I suspect the
    >>nurse was being fairly unethical. Understandable for sure but according
    >>to the feds putting the weak & vulnerable at risk. Just like the
    >>Congress twerps.

    > The number of doses of vaccine given at many local school districts
    > were contracted for months ago and already on hand. As quickly as the
    > state is making rules and (now) setting penalties for violating them,
    > it has yet to organize a mechanism for reselling the unused doses.
    > The result will be, according to a local clinic director, thousands of
    > doses unsold and discarded at the end of flu season.
    > Gordon

Agreed there has to be some imagination to get the doses to those who
need them. As long as the bureaucrats don't get too rigid (well maybe
I'm naive) it shouldn't be too hard. I doubt that the VA would have
found it difficult to use properly the vaccine grabbed by the Congress
twerps.

Szozu

"Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > The point is its a gamble. They make up a vaccine based on the WHO's "best
    > guess" as to which strain is likely to be doing the rounds the next
season.
    > The flu can be deadly for the very young, old, ill or infirm and if they
    > guess right these lives can be saved. For others it *might* save you a
    > bought of 'flu. If their guess is wrong then it's all been a waste of time
    > and money.

And if you're really unlucky, then the flu vaccine will give you
Guillain-Barre Syndrome which can lead to paralysis and a coma. I know of
someone this happened to; a healthy guy in his 40's who had had flu
vaccinations before. After becoming totally paralysed, he went in a coma.
Years later and his status has not changed.
His family found out that there were seven cases that year in Staten Island
alone, making the stakes in this crap shoot much higher than commonly
thought.

Flu shots can also GIVE you the flu. There was a guy in our office who was
always trying to sign up people for flu shots. People in the office were
laughing because he was the one out with the flu that winter while those of
us who had refused the jab remained unaffected, despite dire warnings from
the 6 o'clock news team. Isn't it always the case that THIS year's flu is
going to be the worst ever?

Lana

Magda

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:17:35 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, "szozu" <hoppbunny at hotmail
com> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... And if you're really unlucky, then the flu vaccine will give you
... Guillain-Barre Syndrome which can lead to paralysis and a coma. I know of
... someone this happened to; a healthy guy in his 40's who had had flu
... vaccinations before. After becoming totally paralysed, he went in a coma.
... Years later and his status has not changed.
... His family found out that there were seven cases that year in Staten Island
... alone, making the stakes in this crap shoot much higher than commonly
... thought.
...
... Flu shots can also GIVE you the flu. There was a guy in our office who was
... always trying to sign up people for flu shots. People in the office were
... laughing because he was the one out with the flu that winter while those of
... us who had refused the jab remained unaffected, despite dire warnings from
... the 6 o'clock news team. Isn't it always the case that THIS year's flu is
... going to be the worst ever?

A propos, OT, joke :

Miss Bea, the church organist, was in her eighties and had never been married. She was
much admired for her sweetness and kindness to all. One afternoon the pastor came to call
on her and she showed him into her quaint sitting room. She invited him to have a seat
while she prepared tea.

As he sat facing her old pump organ, the young minister noticed a cut glass bowl sitting
on top of it, filled with water. In the water floated, of all things, a condom!

When she returned with tea and scones, they began to chat. The pastor tried to stifle his
curiosity about the bowl of water and its strange floating ornament, but soon it got the
better of him and he could no longer resist.

"Miss Bea," he said, "I wonder if you would tell me about this?" pointing to the bowl.

Oh, yes," she replied, "isn't it wonderful? I was walking through the park a few months
ago and I found this little package on the ground. The directions said to place it on the
organ, keep it wet, and it would prevent the spread of disease. And you know... I haven't
had a cold all winter."

nitram

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:27:22 +0200, Magda
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:17:35 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, "szozu" <hoppbunny at hotmail
    >com> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    > ... And if you're really unlucky, then the flu vaccine will give you
    > ... Guillain-Barre Syndrome which can lead to paralysis and a coma. I know of
    > ... someone this happened to; a healthy guy in his 40's who had had flu
    > ... vaccinations before. After becoming totally paralysed, he went in a coma.
    > ... Years later and his status has not changed.
    > ... His family found out that there were seven cases that year in Staten Island
    > ... alone, making the stakes in this crap shoot much higher than commonly
    > ... thought.
    > ...
    > ... Flu shots can also GIVE you the flu. There was a guy in our office who was
    > ... always trying to sign up people for flu shots. People in the office were
    > ... laughing because he was the one out with the flu that winter while those of
    > ... us who had refused the jab remained unaffected, despite dire warnings from
    > ... the 6 o'clock news team. Isn't it always the case that THIS year's flu is
    > ... going to be the worst ever?
    >A propos, OT, joke :

Well that's better than the average post :-)
--
Martin

Joan McGalliard

Pete <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >> Don't forget something like the great worldwide flu pandemic of 1918
    > >> which killed tens of millions around the world, and in the US at least
    > >> struck down the youngest and healthiest first (in this case young
    > >> soldiers
    > >
    > > Actually the 1918 influenza was so disastrous because folks in Europe
    > > were just exhausted due to the war.
    >
    > Sorry, the first poster is correct. The 1918-1919 pandemic killed
    > people at their fittest. Soldiers in their late teens in the USA were
    > dying in droves. I've seen photos of huge buildings in the USA filled
    > with hospital beds full of young soldiers *before* they went to Europe.
    > Obviously if someone was exhausted he was even more likely to die,
    > but this was not a required factor.


I'm not an authority on this, but i recently heard that they now believe
that so many young men died in 1918 is they had damaged lungs from
mustard gas.

joan

--
Joan McGalliard, UK http://www.mcgalliard.org

Bill Frogg

On 2004-10-20 08:41:43 -0700, Earl Evleth <[email protected]> said:

    > in article [email protected], Stelios Zacharias at
    > [email protected] wrote on 20/10/04 16:54:
    >
    >> Last year it was 5 Euro from pharmacists in Greece. He does it
    >> for you at no extra cost. Don't know about this year.
    >
    >
    > Medicines in Greece are all slightly cheaper than in France. Ours
    > ran 6.26 euros, although covered by the Secu. The doctor`s call
    > went for 20 euros but he ran a lot of checks.
    >
    > Earl

Last fall in Chiavari I gave myself a flu shot....about Euro 10; two
years ago I was given a flu shot by the pharmacist in Rome...about the
same price. bill frogg