Flu Vaccine in Europe
Oct 20th 2004, 2:04 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
in article [email protected], Frank F. Matthews at
[email protected] wrote on 20/10/04 6:18:
> I waited in line for 3 hours to get a shot.
We had our annual shot here in Paris last week. No wait
and the Secu paid for it. Of course we are over 65.
I suspect that there is enough. extra vaccine around to
give shots to visitors. Canada has about 2.5 extras
around but it does not what to ship them to the US.
Visitors will get shots, however.
Earl
***
Americans Going to Canada for Flu Shots
By BLAKE NICHOLSON, Associated Press Writer
BISMARCK, N.D. - With a shortage of flu vaccine across the country, Margaret
Holmen and others from the Powers Lake Senior Citizens Center have been
talking about going to Canada for their shots. Clinics and pharmacies across
the border are offering to inoculate U.S. residents, and Holmen said she
planned to call clinics in Estevan, Saskatchewan, if she cannot get a flu
shot in North Dakota this week.
"Everybody here is thinking about it," said Holmen, the senior center's
manager. "We hear on the news that we should be patient, but we don't know
what to do."
Word of Canada's vaccine availability is spreading quickly. Eighty Americans
showed up for flu shots Tuesday at Henders Drug in Estevan ‹ located about
nine miles north of the North Dakota border ‹ although the store's newspaper
advertisement hadn't even run yet.
"I suspect there will be a lot more," said Larry Preddy, pharmacist and
co-owner of the store. He charges Americans the same price as Canadians ‹
$15 Canadian or about $12 U.S.
The U.S. vaccine shortage was caused when British regulators shut down
U.S.-bound shipments from Chiron Corp., after some batches of the vaccine
were found to be contaminated with bacteria. The decision cut the U.S.
supply of flu shots almost in half.
Canada does not have a shortage because it doesn't get vaccine from the
British supplier.
Urgent Care Niagara's Fort Erie clinic, just across the border from Buffalo,
said it would vaccinate 100 Americans a day, for around $40 U.S. each,
squeezing them in among Canadian patients who got first priority.
Virginia Matysiak was No. 100. She and her son Kenneth picked up the number
after waiting in line then killed time at the nearby Fort Erie Race Track
and Slots. "We ate lunch and played and came back" ‹ $100 richer, she said.
"So they're paying us to get a flu shot," Kenneth Matysiak said.
Several cars with New York license plates were parked outside the Urgent
Care clinic Tuesday and the waiting room was filled with Americans holding
the coveted numbers. Urgent Care's Niagara Falls clinic also was vaccinating
100 non-Canadians a day.
Officials at the Canadian clinic said vaccine provided by the provincial
government was being given only to Canadian citizens, but that the clinic
had purchased surplus doses for sale to non-Canadians in high-risk
categories.
Perry Kendall, British Columbia's chief health officer, said there has been
some interest at a walk-in flu-shot clinic at the Vancouver airport.
Ross Findlater, Saskatchewan's chief health officer, said Americans are
welcome to get flu shots in the province, as long as they do not come in
droves.
"A couple hundred or a thousand, overall, from a provincial point of view
wouldn't be a problem," he said.
Saskatchewan will track the number of people coming north through shot
clinics offered by public health offices. Those shots are free to Canadians
considered at high risk from the flu, but Americans would be charged about
$16 U.S., Findlater said.
"Most of (the public health units) have some sort of capacity in flu clinics
to immunize healthy people who are willing to pay," he said.
Independent doctors and pharmacies in the province get their vaccine from a
separate pool, and will not be tracked, Findlater said.
Some health officials in Canadian provinces are concerned about the effect a
massive influx of American patients could have. British Columbia's Health
Minister, Colin Hansen, said recently that the drug supply situation was too
much for the provinces to deal with individually and that it should be
tackled by the federal government.
"When we hear both candidates for the presidency of the U.S.A. talk about
allowing Americans easier access to medicines purchased from Canada, there
has to be a federal government response," and not just each province keeping
an eye on the impacts of cross-border shopping, Hansen said.
Also Tuesday, the Food and Drug Administration ( news -web sites ) was
investigating how unlicensed vaccine ended up being shipped to Florida. The
vaccine was to be given starting Wednesday at clinics in Orange, Seminole
and Osceola counties.
The vaccine came from Shire Pharmaceuticals Group, a British company that
sold its vaccine division in September to a Canadian company, ID Biomedical.
[email protected] wrote on 20/10/04 6:18:
> I waited in line for 3 hours to get a shot.
We had our annual shot here in Paris last week. No wait
and the Secu paid for it. Of course we are over 65.
I suspect that there is enough. extra vaccine around to
give shots to visitors. Canada has about 2.5 extras
around but it does not what to ship them to the US.
Visitors will get shots, however.
Earl
***
Americans Going to Canada for Flu Shots
By BLAKE NICHOLSON, Associated Press Writer
BISMARCK, N.D. - With a shortage of flu vaccine across the country, Margaret
Holmen and others from the Powers Lake Senior Citizens Center have been
talking about going to Canada for their shots. Clinics and pharmacies across
the border are offering to inoculate U.S. residents, and Holmen said she
planned to call clinics in Estevan, Saskatchewan, if she cannot get a flu
shot in North Dakota this week.
"Everybody here is thinking about it," said Holmen, the senior center's
manager. "We hear on the news that we should be patient, but we don't know
what to do."
Word of Canada's vaccine availability is spreading quickly. Eighty Americans
showed up for flu shots Tuesday at Henders Drug in Estevan ‹ located about
nine miles north of the North Dakota border ‹ although the store's newspaper
advertisement hadn't even run yet.
"I suspect there will be a lot more," said Larry Preddy, pharmacist and
co-owner of the store. He charges Americans the same price as Canadians ‹
$15 Canadian or about $12 U.S.
The U.S. vaccine shortage was caused when British regulators shut down
U.S.-bound shipments from Chiron Corp., after some batches of the vaccine
were found to be contaminated with bacteria. The decision cut the U.S.
supply of flu shots almost in half.
Canada does not have a shortage because it doesn't get vaccine from the
British supplier.
Urgent Care Niagara's Fort Erie clinic, just across the border from Buffalo,
said it would vaccinate 100 Americans a day, for around $40 U.S. each,
squeezing them in among Canadian patients who got first priority.
Virginia Matysiak was No. 100. She and her son Kenneth picked up the number
after waiting in line then killed time at the nearby Fort Erie Race Track
and Slots. "We ate lunch and played and came back" ‹ $100 richer, she said.
"So they're paying us to get a flu shot," Kenneth Matysiak said.
Several cars with New York license plates were parked outside the Urgent
Care clinic Tuesday and the waiting room was filled with Americans holding
the coveted numbers. Urgent Care's Niagara Falls clinic also was vaccinating
100 non-Canadians a day.
Officials at the Canadian clinic said vaccine provided by the provincial
government was being given only to Canadian citizens, but that the clinic
had purchased surplus doses for sale to non-Canadians in high-risk
categories.
Perry Kendall, British Columbia's chief health officer, said there has been
some interest at a walk-in flu-shot clinic at the Vancouver airport.
Ross Findlater, Saskatchewan's chief health officer, said Americans are
welcome to get flu shots in the province, as long as they do not come in
droves.
"A couple hundred or a thousand, overall, from a provincial point of view
wouldn't be a problem," he said.
Saskatchewan will track the number of people coming north through shot
clinics offered by public health offices. Those shots are free to Canadians
considered at high risk from the flu, but Americans would be charged about
$16 U.S., Findlater said.
"Most of (the public health units) have some sort of capacity in flu clinics
to immunize healthy people who are willing to pay," he said.
Independent doctors and pharmacies in the province get their vaccine from a
separate pool, and will not be tracked, Findlater said.
Some health officials in Canadian provinces are concerned about the effect a
massive influx of American patients could have. British Columbia's Health
Minister, Colin Hansen, said recently that the drug supply situation was too
much for the provinces to deal with individually and that it should be
tackled by the federal government.
"When we hear both candidates for the presidency of the U.S.A. talk about
allowing Americans easier access to medicines purchased from Canada, there
has to be a federal government response," and not just each province keeping
an eye on the impacts of cross-border shopping, Hansen said.
Also Tuesday, the Food and Drug Administration ( news -web sites ) was
investigating how unlicensed vaccine ended up being shipped to Florida. The
vaccine was to be given starting Wednesday at clinics in Orange, Seminole
and Osceola counties.
The vaccine came from Shire Pharmaceuticals Group, a British company that
sold its vaccine division in September to a Canadian company, ID Biomedical.
Oct 20th 2004, 2:12 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
in article [email protected] et, Gregory
Morrow at [email protected] wrote on 20/10/04
15:27:
> The streets of Philadelphia were stacked with the
> dead because there were no ambulance drivers to pick them up - for a while
> the city resembled a charnel house...
>
> Despite medical advances, it *could* happen again - just look at the panic
> something like the SARS episode produced a few years ago...
The French papers say that if the bird flu shows up expect a death
rate around 2% of the population, or between 400,000-700,000.
The measures contemplated include
1) cutting travel
2) closing the schools
3) wearing of face masks
Entering into isolation from others is a necessity. I just finished a
biography on Newton and he sheltered himself at home in the countryside
when the great plagues hit London in the 1660s. Nobody knew the cause
then but "taking off" was intuitive.
Earl
Morrow at [email protected] wrote on 20/10/04
15:27:
> The streets of Philadelphia were stacked with the
> dead because there were no ambulance drivers to pick them up - for a while
> the city resembled a charnel house...
>
> Despite medical advances, it *could* happen again - just look at the panic
> something like the SARS episode produced a few years ago...
The French papers say that if the bird flu shows up expect a death
rate around 2% of the population, or between 400,000-700,000.
The measures contemplated include
1) cutting travel
2) closing the schools
3) wearing of face masks
Entering into isolation from others is a necessity. I just finished a
biography on Newton and he sheltered himself at home in the countryside
when the great plagues hit London in the 1660s. Nobody knew the cause
then but "taking off" was intuitive.
Earl
Oct 20th 2004, 2:15 am
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
Markku Grönroos wrote:
> Actually the 1918 influenza was so disastrous because folks in Europe were
> just exhausted due to the war.
Some excerpts from:
http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/uda/
"The influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 killed more people than the Great War,
known today as World War I (WWI), at somewhere between 20 and 40 million
people. It has been cited as the most devastating epidemic in recorded world
history. More people died of influenza in a single year than in four-years
of the Black Death Bubonic Plague from 1347 to 1351. Known as "Spanish Flu"
or "La Grippe" the influenza of 1918-1919 was a global disaster...
The effect of the influenza epidemic was so severe that the average life
span in the US was depressed by 10 years. The influenza virus had a profound
virulence, with a mortality rate at 2.5% compared to the previous influenza
epidemics, which were less than 0.1%. The death rate for 15 to 34-year-olds
of influenza and pneumonia were 20 times higher in 1918 than in previous
years (Taubenberger). People were struck with illness on the street and died
rapid deaths...
The influenza pandemic circled the globe. Most of humanity felt the effects
of this strain of the influenza virus. It spread following the path of its
human carriers, along trade routes and shipping lines. Outbreaks swept
through North America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Brazil and the South Pacific
(Taubenberger). In India the mortality rate was extremely high at around 50
deaths from influenza per 1,000 people (Brown). The Great War, with its
mass movements of men in armies and aboard ships, probably aided in its
rapid diffusion and attack. The origins of the deadly flu disease were
unknown but widely speculated upon. Some of the allies thought of the
epidemic as a biological warfare tool of the Germans. Many thought it was a
result of the trench warfare, the use of mustard gases and the generated
"smoke and fumes" of the war. A national campaign began using the ready
rhetoric of war to fight the new enemy of microscopic proportions. A study
attempted to reason why the disease had been so devastating in certain
localized regions, looking at the climate, the weather and the racial
composition of cities. They found humidity to be linked with more severe
epidemics as it "fosters the dissemination of the bacteria," (Committee on
Atmosphere and Man, 1923). Meanwhile the new sciences of the infectious
agents and immunology were racing to come up with a vaccine or therapy to
stop the epidemics...
The pandemic affected everyone. With one-quarter of the US and one-fifth of
the world infected with the influenza, it was impossible to escape from the
illness. Even President Woodrow Wilson suffered from the flu in early 1919
while negotiating the crucial treaty of Versailles to end the World War
(Tice). Those who were lucky enough to avoid infection had to deal with the
public health ordinances to restrain the spread of the disease. The public
health departments distributed gauze masks to be worn in public. Stores
could not hold sales, funerals were limited to 15 minutes. Some towns
required a signed certificate to enter and railroads would not accept
passengers without them. Those who ignored the flu ordinances had to pay
steep fines enforced by extra officers (Deseret News). Bodies pilled up as
the massive deaths of the epidemic ensued. Besides the lack of health care
workers and medical supplies, there was a shortage of coffins, morticians
and gravediggers (Knox). The conditions in 1918 were not so far removed from
the Black Death in the era of the bubonic plague of the Middle Ages...
In 1918-19 this deadly influenza pandemic erupted during the final stages of
World War I. Nations were already attempting to deal with the effects and
costs of the war. Propaganda campaigns and war restrictions and rations had
been implemented by governments. Nationalism pervaded as people accepted
government authority. This allowed the public health departments to easily
step in and implement their restrictive measures. The war also gave science
greater importance as governments relied on scientists, now armed with the
new germ theory and the development of antiseptic surgery, to design
vaccines and reduce mortalities of disease and battle wounds. Their new
technologies could preserve the men on the front and ultimately save the
world. These conditions created by World War I, together with the current
social attitudes and ideas, led to the relatively calm response of the
public and application of scientific ideas. People allowed for strict
measures and loss of freedom during the war as they submitted to the needs
of the nation ahead of their personal needs. They had accepted the
limitations placed with rationing and drafting. The responses of the public
health officials reflected the new allegiance to science and the wartime
society. The medical and scientific communities had developed new theories
and applied them to prevention, diagnostics and treatment of the influenza
patients."
</>
> Actually the 1918 influenza was so disastrous because folks in Europe were
> just exhausted due to the war.
Some excerpts from:
http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/uda/
"The influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 killed more people than the Great War,
known today as World War I (WWI), at somewhere between 20 and 40 million
people. It has been cited as the most devastating epidemic in recorded world
history. More people died of influenza in a single year than in four-years
of the Black Death Bubonic Plague from 1347 to 1351. Known as "Spanish Flu"
or "La Grippe" the influenza of 1918-1919 was a global disaster...
The effect of the influenza epidemic was so severe that the average life
span in the US was depressed by 10 years. The influenza virus had a profound
virulence, with a mortality rate at 2.5% compared to the previous influenza
epidemics, which were less than 0.1%. The death rate for 15 to 34-year-olds
of influenza and pneumonia were 20 times higher in 1918 than in previous
years (Taubenberger). People were struck with illness on the street and died
rapid deaths...
The influenza pandemic circled the globe. Most of humanity felt the effects
of this strain of the influenza virus. It spread following the path of its
human carriers, along trade routes and shipping lines. Outbreaks swept
through North America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Brazil and the South Pacific
(Taubenberger). In India the mortality rate was extremely high at around 50
deaths from influenza per 1,000 people (Brown). The Great War, with its
mass movements of men in armies and aboard ships, probably aided in its
rapid diffusion and attack. The origins of the deadly flu disease were
unknown but widely speculated upon. Some of the allies thought of the
epidemic as a biological warfare tool of the Germans. Many thought it was a
result of the trench warfare, the use of mustard gases and the generated
"smoke and fumes" of the war. A national campaign began using the ready
rhetoric of war to fight the new enemy of microscopic proportions. A study
attempted to reason why the disease had been so devastating in certain
localized regions, looking at the climate, the weather and the racial
composition of cities. They found humidity to be linked with more severe
epidemics as it "fosters the dissemination of the bacteria," (Committee on
Atmosphere and Man, 1923). Meanwhile the new sciences of the infectious
agents and immunology were racing to come up with a vaccine or therapy to
stop the epidemics...
The pandemic affected everyone. With one-quarter of the US and one-fifth of
the world infected with the influenza, it was impossible to escape from the
illness. Even President Woodrow Wilson suffered from the flu in early 1919
while negotiating the crucial treaty of Versailles to end the World War
(Tice). Those who were lucky enough to avoid infection had to deal with the
public health ordinances to restrain the spread of the disease. The public
health departments distributed gauze masks to be worn in public. Stores
could not hold sales, funerals were limited to 15 minutes. Some towns
required a signed certificate to enter and railroads would not accept
passengers without them. Those who ignored the flu ordinances had to pay
steep fines enforced by extra officers (Deseret News). Bodies pilled up as
the massive deaths of the epidemic ensued. Besides the lack of health care
workers and medical supplies, there was a shortage of coffins, morticians
and gravediggers (Knox). The conditions in 1918 were not so far removed from
the Black Death in the era of the bubonic plague of the Middle Ages...
In 1918-19 this deadly influenza pandemic erupted during the final stages of
World War I. Nations were already attempting to deal with the effects and
costs of the war. Propaganda campaigns and war restrictions and rations had
been implemented by governments. Nationalism pervaded as people accepted
government authority. This allowed the public health departments to easily
step in and implement their restrictive measures. The war also gave science
greater importance as governments relied on scientists, now armed with the
new germ theory and the development of antiseptic surgery, to design
vaccines and reduce mortalities of disease and battle wounds. Their new
technologies could preserve the men on the front and ultimately save the
world. These conditions created by World War I, together with the current
social attitudes and ideas, led to the relatively calm response of the
public and application of scientific ideas. People allowed for strict
measures and loss of freedom during the war as they submitted to the needs
of the nation ahead of their personal needs. They had accepted the
limitations placed with rationing and drafting. The responses of the public
health officials reflected the new allegiance to science and the wartime
society. The medical and scientific communities had developed new theories
and applied them to prevention, diagnostics and treatment of the influenza
patients."
</>
Oct 20th 2004, 2:26 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
Earl Evleth wrote:
> in article [email protected], Frank F. Matthews at
> [email protected] wrote on 20/10/04 6:18:
> > I waited in line for 3 hours to get a shot.
> We had our annual shot here in Paris last week. No wait
> and the Secu paid for it. Of course we are over 65.
> I suspect that there is enough. extra vaccine around to
> give shots to visitors. Canada has about 2.5 extras
> around but it does not what to ship them to the US.
> Visitors will get shots, however.
Yep, I heard this morning that USAin's are going to Ontario to get the shots
for about US$40.00 per pop...
The distribution here of the vaccine is "interesting". Some stores frex are
getting something of a supply (many big stores/shopping centers give the
shots) but many doctors have to do without.
Apparently there are several million doses coming on line in January...that
may be too late for some.
The _Wall Street Journal_ the other day had an article blaming the US
vaccine shortage on...
[spoiler below]
HILARY CLINTON.
*Someone* is joking.
--
Best
Greg
> in article [email protected], Frank F. Matthews at
> [email protected] wrote on 20/10/04 6:18:
> > I waited in line for 3 hours to get a shot.
> We had our annual shot here in Paris last week. No wait
> and the Secu paid for it. Of course we are over 65.
> I suspect that there is enough. extra vaccine around to
> give shots to visitors. Canada has about 2.5 extras
> around but it does not what to ship them to the US.
> Visitors will get shots, however.
Yep, I heard this morning that USAin's are going to Ontario to get the shots
for about US$40.00 per pop...
The distribution here of the vaccine is "interesting". Some stores frex are
getting something of a supply (many big stores/shopping centers give the
shots) but many doctors have to do without.
Apparently there are several million doses coming on line in January...that
may be too late for some.
The _Wall Street Journal_ the other day had an article blaming the US
vaccine shortage on...
[spoiler below]
HILARY CLINTON.
*Someone* is joking.
--
Best
Greg
Oct 20th 2004, 2:54 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
On 19 Oct 2004 10:41:21 -0700, [email protected] (Al Jackson)
wrote:
>Will be a US citizen traveling in Europe next week.
>Can I get a flu vaccination Paris?
Last year it was 5 Euro from pharmacists in Greece. He does it
for you at no extra cost. Don't know about this year.
Stelios
--
The address in the headers is real and does not need de-mungeing
wrote:
>Will be a US citizen traveling in Europe next week.
>Can I get a flu vaccination Paris?
Last year it was 5 Euro from pharmacists in Greece. He does it
for you at no extra cost. Don't know about this year.
Stelios
--
The address in the headers is real and does not need de-mungeing
Oct 20th 2004, 3:11 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
Pete wrote:
>>>This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point
>>>of the flu shot? I've never had one except when working in a health-
>>>care facility and they lined us all up for it, and it doesn't seem to
>>>have impacted my life in any way.
>>I've never got a flu shot, and I've also never had the flu. Until I
>>see some need for it (specifically, an unpleasant bout with the flu),
>>I'm not planning to get it.
> People that have a good immune system and never get the flu cannot
> possibly understand people who become very sick with it. Working
> for a boss like this is totally aggravating because he/she thinks you are
> playing hookey when you are really sick as a dog. The flu affects
> people differently. Some people are not sick at all, some people are
> tied to their beds for a week or three, some people end up in the
> emergency room, and some people die. Many people in their prime
> of life are very sick and it does not depend on your fitness status.
> Pete
Personally, if forced to work for such a boss I would try to drag myself
in as much as possible. And spend as much time as possible with him and
his immediate staff. Even if the bastard has an immune system that
defeats your bug taking out his entire support system would begin to be
a punishment. Hard on the support system but collateral damage is
unavoidable.
>>>This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point
>>>of the flu shot? I've never had one except when working in a health-
>>>care facility and they lined us all up for it, and it doesn't seem to
>>>have impacted my life in any way.
>>I've never got a flu shot, and I've also never had the flu. Until I
>>see some need for it (specifically, an unpleasant bout with the flu),
>>I'm not planning to get it.
> People that have a good immune system and never get the flu cannot
> possibly understand people who become very sick with it. Working
> for a boss like this is totally aggravating because he/she thinks you are
> playing hookey when you are really sick as a dog. The flu affects
> people differently. Some people are not sick at all, some people are
> tied to their beds for a week or three, some people end up in the
> emergency room, and some people die. Many people in their prime
> of life are very sick and it does not depend on your fitness status.
> Pete
Personally, if forced to work for such a boss I would try to drag myself
in as much as possible. And spend as much time as possible with him and
his immediate staff. Even if the bastard has an immune system that
defeats your bug taking out his entire support system would begin to be
a punishment. Hard on the support system but collateral damage is
unavoidable.
Oct 20th 2004, 3:13 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
Douglas W. Hoyt wrote:
>>>>>>>>The flu vaccine shortage in the US is that bad?
> States are passing laws that no-one over 2 or under 65 (unless chronically
> ill) may get a shot, with penalties or hundreds of dollars or jail time to
> the doctor who provides a flu shot to the wrong person.
I wonder how many legislatures can manage to move that quickly. There
are a bunch that aren't even in session so it will only impact some
areas. They certainly won't until they've managed to scrounge shots
from unethical doctors.
>>>>>>>>The flu vaccine shortage in the US is that bad?
> States are passing laws that no-one over 2 or under 65 (unless chronically
> ill) may get a shot, with penalties or hundreds of dollars or jail time to
> the doctor who provides a flu shot to the wrong person.
I wonder how many legislatures can manage to move that quickly. There
are a bunch that aren't even in session so it will only impact some
areas. They certainly won't until they've managed to scrounge shots
from unethical doctors.
Oct 20th 2004, 3:17 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
Earl Evleth wrote:
> in article [email protected], B Vaughan at
> [email protected] wrote on 19/10/04 23:33:
>>The flu vaccine shortage in the US is that bad?
> Half the doses went bad, about 50 of 100 million.
>
> Only Aventis-Pasteur had delivered their 50 million and are
> making a couple of million more for January. The US will
> still be short by over 40 million. Some people near the
> Canadian border are "poping over" for their shots.
> It has become an election issue but frankly it is not
> Bush`s fault. It is the "system's" fault. Vaccines
> are low profit items for companies used to making
> 20% profits on their sales. Why invest millions in
> factories to put on vaccines which higher profits
> are elsewhere?
>
> The Government should, however, make sure that vaccines
> can be supplied in such situations. This is not
> part of the "market economics" ideology in the US, however.
>
> Ironically Aventis-Pasteur is a French company but I don't believe
> Condi Rice wants to "punish" the French this time around!
> Earl
Sorry, Earl, but it is certainly shrub's fault. His health advisors
have been warning for years that the number of providers was dropping
dangerously low. He is responsible for the government that took no
action to alleviate the problem. He can't continually duck
responsibility for every problem.
> in article [email protected], B Vaughan at
> [email protected] wrote on 19/10/04 23:33:
>>The flu vaccine shortage in the US is that bad?
> Half the doses went bad, about 50 of 100 million.
>
> Only Aventis-Pasteur had delivered their 50 million and are
> making a couple of million more for January. The US will
> still be short by over 40 million. Some people near the
> Canadian border are "poping over" for their shots.
> It has become an election issue but frankly it is not
> Bush`s fault. It is the "system's" fault. Vaccines
> are low profit items for companies used to making
> 20% profits on their sales. Why invest millions in
> factories to put on vaccines which higher profits
> are elsewhere?
>
> The Government should, however, make sure that vaccines
> can be supplied in such situations. This is not
> part of the "market economics" ideology in the US, however.
>
> Ironically Aventis-Pasteur is a French company but I don't believe
> Condi Rice wants to "punish" the French this time around!
> Earl
Sorry, Earl, but it is certainly shrub's fault. His health advisors
have been warning for years that the number of providers was dropping
dangerously low. He is responsible for the government that took no
action to alleviate the problem. He can't continually duck
responsibility for every problem.
Oct 20th 2004, 3:28 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
"Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1098261139.RZF0ARJ746JB1vQlbe7x3Q@teranews...
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:42:49 +0100, nightjar wrote:
>> There is a known problem with vaccinating people who
>> have an allergy to eggs and egg products and there is some evidence of a
>> low
>> incidence (about 10 persons in a million) of other side effects from
>> vaccination.
> And of course, any bird-flu that might jump the species barrier (a
> possibility in Asia at the moment). Such a virus is likely to be virulent,
> and unfortunately a vaccine can't be made cheaply and simply by infecting
> birds' eggs as the virus will also kill the eggs.
However, then we are probably looking at a pandemic, which nobody expects
the vaccination programme to stop.
Colin Bignell
news:1098261139.RZF0ARJ746JB1vQlbe7x3Q@teranews...
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:42:49 +0100, nightjar wrote:
>> There is a known problem with vaccinating people who
>> have an allergy to eggs and egg products and there is some evidence of a
>> low
>> incidence (about 10 persons in a million) of other side effects from
>> vaccination.
> And of course, any bird-flu that might jump the species barrier (a
> possibility in Asia at the moment). Such a virus is likely to be virulent,
> and unfortunately a vaccine can't be made cheaply and simply by infecting
> birds' eggs as the virus will also kill the eggs.
However, then we are probably looking at a pandemic, which nobody expects
the vaccination programme to stop.
Colin Bignell
Oct 20th 2004, 3:41 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
in article [email protected], Stelios Zacharias at
[email protected] wrote on 20/10/04 16:54:
> Last year it was 5 Euro from pharmacists in Greece. He does it
> for you at no extra cost. Don't know about this year.
Medicines in Greece are all slightly cheaper than in France. Ours
ran 6.26 euros, although covered by the Secu. The doctor`s call
went for 20 euros but he ran a lot of checks.
Earl
[email protected] wrote on 20/10/04 16:54:
> Last year it was 5 Euro from pharmacists in Greece. He does it
> for you at no extra cost. Don't know about this year.
Medicines in Greece are all slightly cheaper than in France. Ours
ran 6.26 euros, although covered by the Secu. The doctor`s call
went for 20 euros but he ran a lot of checks.
Earl
Oct 20th 2004, 3:51 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
in article [email protected], Frank F. Matthews at
[email protected] wrote on 20/10/04 17:17:
> Sorry, Earl, but it is certainly shrub's fault. His health advisors
> have been warning for years that the number of providers was dropping
> dangerously low. He is responsible for the government that took no
> action to alleviate the problem. He can't continually duck
> responsibility for every problem.
I am quite willing to blame Bush for everything bad, most of time I would
be right.
How does one force drug companies to produce something when they
can invest elsewhere and earn more? In socialist "command type" economy
this is possible, with the Government guaranteeing a profit.
Doing so is not in keeping with a free market ideology, which has
icon status in the US.
That is what I meant by the "system" being faulted.
The same problem arose with anti-biotics. Companies like to have
exclusive patent protected rights to exploit a drug at a high price.
Most anti-biotics are no longer covered by patent protection,
generic is where the market is.
We were sitting at dinner the other night with a visiting American
who pays $90/month for his anti-cholesterol drug alone. How does
that compare with a single $7 flu shot?
Earl
[email protected] wrote on 20/10/04 17:17:
> Sorry, Earl, but it is certainly shrub's fault. His health advisors
> have been warning for years that the number of providers was dropping
> dangerously low. He is responsible for the government that took no
> action to alleviate the problem. He can't continually duck
> responsibility for every problem.
I am quite willing to blame Bush for everything bad, most of time I would
be right.
How does one force drug companies to produce something when they
can invest elsewhere and earn more? In socialist "command type" economy
this is possible, with the Government guaranteeing a profit.
Doing so is not in keeping with a free market ideology, which has
icon status in the US.
That is what I meant by the "system" being faulted.
The same problem arose with anti-biotics. Companies like to have
exclusive patent protected rights to exploit a drug at a high price.
Most anti-biotics are no longer covered by patent protection,
generic is where the market is.
We were sitting at dinner the other night with a visiting American
who pays $90/month for his anti-cholesterol drug alone. How does
that compare with a single $7 flu shot?
Earl
Oct 20th 2004, 3:54 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
in article [email protected], nightjar .uk.com>
at nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here wrote on 20/10/04 17:28:
> However, then we are probably looking at a pandemic, which nobody expects
> the vaccination programme to stop.
The vaccines have been developed, it is the delay in manufacturing them
which is the problem.
If the bird flu spreads quickly, it will kill a lot of people.
If, for example, it appears "up" for next winter, the vaccines
will be there along with a supply of anti-viral drugs.
The French still estimate French deaths will be in the 400,000-700,000
range in France alone.
"We pass this way but once"
And once is enough.
Earl
at nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here wrote on 20/10/04 17:28:
> However, then we are probably looking at a pandemic, which nobody expects
> the vaccination programme to stop.
The vaccines have been developed, it is the delay in manufacturing them
which is the problem.
If the bird flu spreads quickly, it will kill a lot of people.
If, for example, it appears "up" for next winter, the vaccines
will be there along with a supply of anti-viral drugs.
The French still estimate French deaths will be in the 400,000-700,000
range in France alone.
"We pass this way but once"
And once is enough.
Earl
Oct 20th 2004, 4:17 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
me <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>> Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Bill Moore wrote:
>>>> Yup. Large companies that typically offer free shots to all employees
>>>> aren't doing it this year. And there are long lines at clinics, people
>>>> are being asked not to get one if you aren't high risk... I guess it's
>>>> the 21st century version of the gas shortage...
>>> I waited in line for 3 hours to get a shot.
>>
>> This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of the
>> flu shot?
> You seemed to have tried to find the stupidest way to ask this question
It's a special skill I have.
> which makes me think I don't understand what you are really asking. The
> obvious answer is "prevention".
What it turns out I was really asking (though I didn't know it at the time)
was "What is the flu?"
It wasn't clear to me before reading some of the other posts that it was
such a serious issue for so many people - I'd just sort of assumed that it
was only a concern for the elderly and infirm.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>> Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Bill Moore wrote:
>>>> Yup. Large companies that typically offer free shots to all employees
>>>> aren't doing it this year. And there are long lines at clinics, people
>>>> are being asked not to get one if you aren't high risk... I guess it's
>>>> the 21st century version of the gas shortage...
>>> I waited in line for 3 hours to get a shot.
>>
>> This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of the
>> flu shot?
> You seemed to have tried to find the stupidest way to ask this question
It's a special skill I have.
> which makes me think I don't understand what you are really asking. The
> obvious answer is "prevention".
What it turns out I was really asking (though I didn't know it at the time)
was "What is the flu?"
It wasn't clear to me before reading some of the other posts that it was
such a serious issue for so many people - I'd just sort of assumed that it
was only a concern for the elderly and infirm.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Oct 20th 2004, 4:22 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
On 2004-10-20 08:11:02 +0200, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) said:
> Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bill Moore wrote:
>>> Yup. Large companies that typically offer free shots to all employees
>>> aren't doing it this year. And there are long lines at clinics, people
>>> are being asked not to get one if you aren't high risk... I guess it's
>>> the 21st century version of the gas shortage...
>>
>> I waited in line for 3 hours to get a shot.
>
> This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of the
> flu shot?
Umm - it's to help you not get flu.
I've had the shot for the last five years, and I haven't had flu during
that time. Before that I used to get it every year or so, which I din't
particularly enjoy. Whilst mindful of the obvious caveats, I'm going to
get this year's shot tomorrow.
J;
--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG
> Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bill Moore wrote:
>>> Yup. Large companies that typically offer free shots to all employees
>>> aren't doing it this year. And there are long lines at clinics, people
>>> are being asked not to get one if you aren't high risk... I guess it's
>>> the 21st century version of the gas shortage...
>>
>> I waited in line for 3 hours to get a shot.
>
> This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of the
> flu shot?
Umm - it's to help you not get flu.
I've had the shot for the last five years, and I haven't had flu during
that time. Before that I used to get it every year or so, which I din't
particularly enjoy. Whilst mindful of the obvious caveats, I'm going to
get this year's shot tomorrow.
J;
--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG
Oct 20th 2004, 4:28 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Flu Vaccine in Europe
Jeremy Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) said:
>> This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of the
>> flu shot?
> Umm - it's to help you not get flu.
>
> I've had the shot for the last five years, and I haven't had flu during
> that time. Before that I used to get it every year or so, which I din't
> particularly enjoy.
Ah, see, I don't think I've ever had it (had a cold a few years ago though
and that was unpleasant enough, so if this is worse, I can see why you
wouldn't want it).
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) said:
>> This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of the
>> flu shot?
> Umm - it's to help you not get flu.
>
> I've had the shot for the last five years, and I haven't had flu during
> that time. Before that I used to get it every year or so, which I din't
> particularly enjoy.
Ah, see, I don't think I've ever had it (had a cold a few years ago though
and that was unpleasant enough, so if this is worse, I can see why you
wouldn't want it).
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
