Nightjar

"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
...
    > This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of the
    > flu shot? ...

For health reasons, there is not much point, unless you are in a group that
is at a high risk of complications. The WHO suggests that those aged over
65, those over 45, if they have certain medical conditions, and those likely
to have contact with infected persons (i.e mainly healthcare workers) should
be the target groups for vaccination. Children of pre-school and early
school age are the group most likely to contract the disease, so vaccinating
them can reduce the incidence of flu in the population as a whole.

There is a proven cost saving to the health services in providing
vaccination to vulnerable adults, both in reducing the need for
hospitalisation and in not requiring other treatments to be postponed
because of the increased intake of flu victims. Reduced absenteeism also
produces economic advantages for business when adults of working age are
vaccinated, however, unlike vaccinating vulnerable adults, that has little
impact on morbidity. There is a known problem with vaccinating people who
have an allergy to eggs and egg products and there is some evidence of a low
incidence (about 10 persons in a million) of other side effects from
vaccination.

Colin Bignell

Tim Challenger

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:42:49 +0100, nightjar wrote:

    > There is a known problem with vaccinating people who
    > have an allergy to eggs and egg products and there is some evidence of a low
    > incidence (about 10 persons in a million) of other side effects from
    > vaccination.

And of course, any bird-flu that might jump the species barrier (a
possibility in Asia at the moment). Such a virus is likely to be virulent,
and unfortunately a vaccine can't be made cheaply and simply by infecting
birds' eggs as the virus will also kill the eggs.

--
Tim C.

Keith Willshaw

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >B Vaughan wrote:

    >> The flu vaccine shortage in the US is that bad?
    > There is lots of vaccine ... the problem is the rationing.

Incorrect

There's a shortage due to one of the pharmaceuticals
companies who prepare the shots having had its
license pulled after contamination was discovered
in some of its products

http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/05/news...hiron/?cnn=yes

Keith

Lyn

As an asthma sufferer (and prone to catching everything going) the flu can
mean up to two weeks off work & another 2-4 weeks before my lungs fully
recover.
The Australian government provides free flu injections to everyone over the
age of 65, and actively encourages the rest of the population to get
vaccinated.
The vaccine is worth every cent, in the last five years I haven't had the
flu once.
A lot of large businesses now provide free flu injections to employees to
reduce winter absenteeism, it just makes good economic sense.

Lyn.

"nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote in message
news:[email protected]. ..
    > "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > ...
    >> This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of
    >> the
    >> flu shot? ...
    > For health reasons, there is not much point, unless you are in a group
    > that is at a high risk of complications. The WHO suggests that those aged
    > over 65, those over 45, if they have certain medical conditions, and those
    > likely to have contact with infected persons (i.e mainly healthcare
    > workers) should be the target groups for vaccination. Children of
    > pre-school and early school age are the group most likely to contract the
    > disease, so vaccinating them can reduce the incidence of flu in the
    > population as a whole.
    > There is a proven cost saving to the health services in providing
    > vaccination to vulnerable adults, both in reducing the need for
    > hospitalisation and in not requiring other treatments to be postponed
    > because of the increased intake of flu victims. Reduced absenteeism also
    > produces economic advantages for business when adults of working age are
    > vaccinated, however, unlike vaccinating vulnerable adults, that has little
    > impact on morbidity. There is a known problem with vaccinating people who
    > have an allergy to eggs and egg products and there is some evidence of a
    > low incidence (about 10 persons in a million) of other side effects from
    > vaccination.
    > Colin Bignell
    >

Ken Wheatley

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:22:37 +0200, Tim Challenger
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >And little *real* need to have one.

True. However, although I've never had it, flu is supposed to be very
unpleasant indeed.

Owain

"Miguel Cruz" wrote
    | This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the
    | point of the flu shot?

It stops you getting (some of the most common varieties of) influenza this
winter.

Most healthy people can shrug off a flu attack with a week's misery in bed,
but influenza is still a killer to The Old And Vulnerable. Vaccinating the
most vulnerable is cheaper than having them keeling over and clogging up the
hospitals all winter.

Owain

B Vaughan

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:11:02 -0500, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
wrote:

    >This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of the
    >flu shot? I've never had one except when working in a healthcare facility
    >and they lined us all up for it, and it doesn't seem to have impacted my
    >life in any way.

I've never got a flu shot, and I've also never had the flu. Until I
see some need for it (specifically, an unpleasant bout with the flu),
I'm not planning to get it. I know that influenza has a fairly high
mortality rate, though, especially among the elderly and people with
compromised immune systems. I even knew a middle-aged man who died
very unexpectedly from complications of the flu. So I wouldn't advise
people not to get it.

In Italy, starting last year, they began advising school children to
get the vaccine, because apparently schools are one of the main
vectors for spreading the contagion around.
-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Gregory Morrow

B Vaughan wrote:

    > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:11:02 -0500, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
    > wrote:
    > >This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of
the
    > >flu shot? I've never had one except when working in a healthcare facility
    > >and they lined us all up for it, and it doesn't seem to have impacted my
    > >life in any way.
    > I've never got a flu shot, and I've also never had the flu. Until I
    > see some need for it (specifically, an unpleasant bout with the flu),
    > I'm not planning to get it. I know that influenza has a fairly high
    > mortality rate, though, especially among the elderly and people with
    > compromised immune systems. I even knew a middle-aged man who died
    > very unexpectedly from complications of the flu. So I wouldn't advise
    > people not to get it.


Yep, say "flu" and many people just compare it to a simple cold or whatever,
but it's more than that - influenza in it's various forms can be absolutely
debilitating to even the healthiest folks, and deadly to those that are not.

Don't forget something like the great worldwide flu pandemic of 1918 which
killed tens of millions around the world, and in the US at least struck down
the youngest and healthiest first (in this case young soldiers that had
returned from the fighting in Europe), sometimes in a matter of hours (and
it killed my mother's infant brother who was seemingly thriving and
healthy - but everyone else in the family was unscathed, including
infirm/elderly members). The streets of Philadelphia were stacked with the
dead because there were no ambulance drivers to pick them up - for a while
the city resembled a charnel house...

Despite medical advances, it *could* happen again - just look at the panic
something like the SARS episode produced a few years ago...

--
Best
Greg

Markku Grönroos

"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestissä news:[email protected] ink.net...
    > Don't forget something like the great worldwide flu pandemic of 1918 which
    > killed tens of millions around the world, and in the US at least struck
down
    > the youngest and healthiest first (in this case young soldiers that had

Actually the 1918 influenza was so disastrous because folks in Europe were
just exhausted due to the war.

Pete

    >> This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point
    >> of the flu shot? I've never had one except when working in a health-
    >> care facility and they lined us all up for it, and it doesn't seem to
    >> have impacted my life in any way.
    > I've never got a flu shot, and I've also never had the flu. Until I
    > see some need for it (specifically, an unpleasant bout with the flu),
    > I'm not planning to get it.

People that have a good immune system and never get the flu cannot
possibly understand people who become very sick with it. Working
for a boss like this is totally aggravating because he/she thinks you are
playing hookey when you are really sick as a dog. The flu affects
people differently. Some people are not sick at all, some people are
tied to their beds for a week or three, some people end up in the
emergency room, and some people die. Many people in their prime
of life are very sick and it does not depend on your fitness status.


Pete

Me

[email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Bill Moore wrote:
    > >> Yup. Large companies that typically offer free shots to all employees
    > >> aren't doing it this year. And there are long lines at clinics, people
    > >> are being asked not to get one if you aren't high risk... I guess it's
    > >> the 21st century version of the gas shortage...
    > >
    > > I waited in line for 3 hours to get a shot.
    >
    > This may seem like (or be) a stupid question, but what is the point of the
    > flu shot?

You seemed to have tried to find the stupidest way to ask this
question, which makes me think I don't understand what you are
really asking. The obvious answer is "prevention".

    > I've never had one except when working in a healthcare facility
    > and they lined us all up for it, and it doesn't seem to have impacted my
    > life in any way.


The flu shot business has gotten all outta whack and I'm not sure
when it happened. None the less, the logic works like this. Every
year they KNOW that a flu will go around. So in the spring a bunch
of folks get together and try to guess exactly what vaccine to make,
since not exactly the same flu goes around every year. Then they
make a bunch of vaccine (which usually takes time). Then in the fall
they inject as many folks as they can, and hope they guess right,
(or close enough).

For some folks this is a potentially life threatening process
since they might die if they contract the flu. For others, its
an annual attempt to shore up their immune systems and avoid a
week or so of misery. For the rest of us it's fairly inconsequential
personnaly since if we actually contract the flu, we may barely notice.

However, they CDC and others figure that one way to avoid spreading
the flu, and thereby preventing certian high risk individuals of
contracting it, is to get everyone to be innoculated. The flu has
a harder time spreading around if it doesn't find good hosts.

Now the sorta downer side. A very few folks will actually have
adverse reactions to the shot. In very rare cases, you can actually
get flu like symptoms from getting the shot.

Folks who interact with other folks who might be susceptible
are often encouraged/forced to get the shot (like health care
workers). Folks in families with at risk members are often all
vaccinated. I haven't had one in decades, but my exposure to
the at risk population is fairly small. This year it seems even
less likely I'll get one. I don't get the flu typically.

Pete

    >> Don't forget something like the great worldwide flu pandemic of 1918
    >> which killed tens of millions around the world, and in the US at least
    >> struck down the youngest and healthiest first (in this case young
    >> soldiers
    > Actually the 1918 influenza was so disastrous because folks in Europe
    > were just exhausted due to the war.

Sorry, the first poster is correct. The 1918-1919 pandemic killed
people at their fittest. Soldiers in their late teens in the USA were
dying in droves. I've seen photos of huge buildings in the USA filled
with hospital beds full of young soldiers *before* they went to Europe.
Obviously if someone was exhausted he was even more likely to die,
but this was not a required factor.


Pete

Pete

    >> If one is younger than 65 and in reasonably good health, there is
    >> zero chance of obtaining a flu shot.
    > And little *real* need to have one.

Spoken like a genuinely intolerant and ignorant person. I have
known people who were tied to their bed for weeks. I ended up
in an emergency room in my 20s. You have no clue how the flu
affects other people.


Pete

Earl Evleth

in article [email protected], B Vaughan at
[email protected] wrote on 19/10/04 23:33:

    > The flu vaccine shortage in the US is that bad?


Half the doses went bad, about 50 of 100 million.

Only Aventis-Pasteur had delivered their 50 million and are
making a couple of million more for January. The US will
still be short by over 40 million. Some people near the
Canadian border are "poping over" for their shots.

It has become an election issue but frankly it is not
Bush`s fault. It is the "system's" fault. Vaccines
are low profit items for companies used to making
20% profits on their sales. Why invest millions in
factories to put on vaccines which higher profits
are elsewhere?

The Government should, however, make sure that vaccines
can be supplied in such situations. This is not
part of the "market economics" ideology in the US, however.

Ironically Aventis-Pasteur is a French company but I don't believe
Condi Rice wants to "punish" the French this time around!

Earl

Markku Grönroos

"Pete" <[email protected]> kirjoitti viestissä
news:[email protected] ink.net...
    > >> Don't forget something like the great worldwide flu pandemic of 1918
    > >> which killed tens of millions around the world, and in the US at least
    > >> struck down the youngest and healthiest first (in this case young
    > >> soldiers
    > >
    > > Actually the 1918 influenza was so disastrous because folks in Europe
    > > were just exhausted due to the war.
    > Sorry, the first poster is correct. The 1918-1919 pandemic killed
    > people at their fittest. Soldiers in their late teens in the USA were


Nobody said it didn't.

    > dying in droves. I've seen photos of huge buildings in the USA filled
    > with hospital beds full of young soldiers *before* they went to Europe.
    > Obviously if someone was exhausted he was even more likely to die,
    > but this was not a required factor.
This is about trivial.