zen-niwa <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > So does "London" really exist? Apart from the small area you speak of, does anyone
    > else really live in London? Is the huge metropolis of London a single entity in
    > any way?

It is now. Greater London (established in the 1960s) was abolished by Thatcher, but
reconstituted a couple of years ago.

Regards

--
Wir wolln unsern alten Kaiser Wilhelm wiederham!

On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 04:11:15 +0000, Pulaski <[email protected]> wrote:
    > You were not in a fish and chip shop. Fish and chips shops sell fish, ... and
    > chips, definitely not squid. I suggest that you were in a seafood restaurant,
    > which is different.
    > If you ask for "fish" in a fish and chip shop the fish is generally cod (London and
    > the south), or haddock (the north), though both are available everywhere by
    > request. There are other things available, plaice, rock salmon, fish cakes, cod
    > roe, and often a range of meat products too - battered sausages, saveloys and pies.
    > There may also be other delicacies on sale, such as pickled onions, pickled eggs,
    > pickled gerkins, muchy peas (in the north), etc. But no squid!

<sigh> Fine. I wasn't in a fish and chip shop. Nevertheless, I had fish
and chips there that I enjoyed very much and thought it worth a mention.

FWIW, I had cod. DH had a sampler of things, including cod, rock salmon and
squid, which was excellent even if it doesn't have the honor of being a fish.

    > Service is always at the counter (MacDonalds style), and most have nowhere to sit
    > and eat inside.

In my post, I mentioned that next door was a small take-away looking place.
I didn't go inside, but from what I saw, it looked very much like what you
describe, a service counter, with no tables or places to sit. Both places
looked to be halves of the same establishment to me. Perhaps this would
meet with your approval.

    > Please don't confuse a seafood restaurant with a fish and chip shop.

Oh yes, I'm sure the consequences of such a grievious error would be quite
dire, indeed. ;P

Ariane

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
(Ariane Jenkins) wrote:

    > In my post, I mentioned that next door was a small take-away looking place.
    > I didn't go inside, but from what I saw, it looked very much like what you
    > describe, a service counter, with no tables or places to sit. Both places
    > looked to be halves of the same establishment to me. Perhaps this would
    > meet with your approval.

This is not an uncommon arrangement, and the fish and chips come from the same
kitchen (okay, presumably -- I've never been behind the scenes in one, but I can't
imagine why they wouldn't). So you could argue that you have eaten squid *from* a
fish and chip shop, but *in* a restaurant. Did they take euro there? Was there an
ATM, or a bidet?

Good advice, and another reason why I always asked for haddock in London as no fish n chip shop there has haddock already fried. The main reason of course is that haddock has a much better flavour than cod which can taste floury.

Sorry, you win, you are quite right, I did over simplify things and yes there a few fish 'n chip shops that have a restaurant side too. In fact the one I recommended in Raynes park has 6 or 8 tables in a room at the back. There is another one that I know of at the back of Finsbury square in the City that has a restaurant side upstairs, and another similar one in Gloucester (yeah, I know that is a long way from London), but in all cases there is the counter for take away service, and this is the defining characteristic of a genuine fish 'n chip shop, that it has a takeaway counter.

I did not mean to cause offence, but fish 'n chips is the British national dish and we can't have people thinking that they ate genuine fish 'n chips when all they did was eat in a fish restaurant.

On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:41:20 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > This is not an uncommon arrangement, and the fish and chips come from the same
    > kitchen (okay, presumably -- I've never been behind the scenes in one, but I can't
    > imagine why they wouldn't). So you could argue that you have eaten squid *from* a
    > fish and chip shop, but *in* a restaurant. Did they take euro there? Was there
    > an ATM, or a bidet?

Not that I saw...at least not in the restaurant half. It seemed like a fairly
sedate place in a residential/business setting with a few customers who looked
like regulars lingering over the paper as they ate, etc. All in all, a nice
place and (I thought) not too touristy, especially considering it was published
in Frommers!

Ariane

On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:17:12 +0000, Pulaski <[email protected]> wrote: [snip]
    > I did not mean to cause offence, but fish 'n chips is the British national dish and
    > we can't have people thinking that they ate genuine fish 'n chips when all they did
    > was eat in a fish restaurant.

*laughs* No problem. I'm not sure how I could've enjoyed my fish and chips
any more than I did, though, despite the fact that I ate it sitting down in a
restaurant. Well... I might've paid less for it, which wouldn't make me
unhappy.

We certainly hope to return to England someday, and will make every effort
to eat at a REAL fish and chips shop when we do.

Ariane

"Bavenger" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'll be staying in the South Kensington area.

Don't know about that area, but in my opinion London doesn't do fish and chips nearly
as well as other parts of the UK. (I'm originally from Cardiff and after 7 years
still haven't found a comparable chippy in London) The best one that I know of in
Central London is Dionysus at the very end of Oxford Street, near Tottenham Court
Road tube station. Its actually a Greek Kebab restaurant but they also sell all the
traditional fish and chips etc. Take away, or restaurant service and it never seems
to close!! Definately the best chips I've had in London.

Aly.

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:07:33 GMT, alyson wrote -
    > "Bavenger" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    >> I'll be staying in the South Kensington area.
    > Don't know about that area, but in my opinion London doesn't do fish and chips
    > nearly as well as other parts of the UK.

Agreed. Entirely.

    > The best one that I know of in Central London is Dionysus at the very end of Oxford
    > Street, near Tottenham Court Road tube station. Its actually a Greek Kebab
    > restaurant but they also sell all the traditional fish and chips etc. Take away,
    > or restaurant service and it never seems to close!! Definately the best chips I've
    > had in London.

But it depends if they want a traditional takeaway, or a sit-down meal in a pub
or summat.

Although it's more-or-less on the tourist trail, what ow about someplace like
the Anchor at Bankside? (If the chips are crap, at least the riverfront
setting's nice....)


(Like you, though, I'd probably save my fish-and-chips meal for somewhere closer to
the sea, if that was possible.)

--
Cheers, Harvey

In article <[email protected]>, Harvey V
<[email protected]> writes

    >(Like you, though, I'd probably save my fish-and-chips meal for somewhere closer to
    >the sea, if that was possible.)

There's no guarantee that the fish and or chips will be any better there than London.
I went to one of the chippies on the sea front at Ilfracombe in Devon and had awful
soggy chips along with an equally soggy piece of battered fish cooked from frozen. It
was a disaster.

If you've watched any programmes featuring the telly chef Rick Stein, you'll have
heard him bemoaning the fact that very little of the fish caught in UK waters ends up
in restaurants near the coast.

--
congokid Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

We ate in the North Sea restaurant a number of years ago and though it was quite
good. However we were there some 5 years ago and we though it was not at all good.
Most of the clientele had Frommer or Cheap Eats in hand and I suspect did not know
the difference. Have been eating at the Rock and Sole place since '93 and we still
like it, maybe it is sitting at the picnic tables on the street but it is still good.
Now if you want real Fish and Chips you have to go to South Yorkshire, a super place
in Stairfoot .... Doug. "Ariane Jenkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:slrnam8d9l.gsm.arianej@pepp-
er.spice.lan...
    > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:40:14 GMT, Bavenger <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > I"ll be visiting London next month, and I'd like to get some suggestions for the
    > > best Fish & Chips places in the city.
    > I don't know how it compares to other places in London, but Frommers recommended
    > the North Sea Fish Restaurant in Bloomsbury, 7-8 Leigh St. There's a restaurant
    > and take-away side by side... I think it's cheaper if you get the take-away,
    > although the restaurant is quite pleasant, too. The tartar sauce had a really
    > nice hint of horseradish in it, which I liked a lot.
    > Ariane

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
(congokid) wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Harvey V
    > <[email protected]> writes
    > >(Like you, though, I'd probably save my fish-and-chips meal for somewhere closer
    > >to the sea, if that was possible.)
    > There's no guarantee that the fish and or chips will be any better there
    > than London.

Absolutely. (The key -- well, one of the keys -- is to be close to a fish market, not
necessarily the sea. I used to get fantastic fish home-delivered in very-landlocked
south Shropshire; the guy dropped them off on his early-morning run from a Cornish
port, I forget which, to Birmingham market.)

On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:23:54 -0400, Douglas Cutler <[email protected]> wrote:
    > We ate in the North Sea restaurant a number of years ago and though it was quite
    > good. However we were there some 5 years ago and we though it was not at all good.
    > Most of the clientele had Frommer or Cheap Eats in hand and I suspect did not know
    > the difference. Have been eating at the Rock and Sole place since '93 and we still
    > like it, maybe it is sitting at the picnic tables on the street but it is still
    > good. Now if you want real Fish and Chips you have to go to South Yorkshire, a
    > super place in Stairfoot .... Doug.

Hmmm. When we were there, there didn't seem to be any tourists. (Not
obvious ones, anyway.) Most appeared to be regulars by the way they were
greeted by the hostess, and there were several older ladies and gentlemen
reading the paper as they ate lunch.

If/when we go back to England, I'd certainly be happier to expand my fish and
chips horizon, though.

Ariane