First vs. second class
Jan 5th 2005, 12:34 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to
the total cost of a trip to Europe. And if one is doing a lot of rail
circle trips where you might be changing trains at a moment's notice on
a whim with no time to go into a station for a ticket, that eurailpass
can be mighty handy.
--
wf.
Hatunen wrote:
>
>
> >On certain routes on certain days (say, Venizia/Milan on Sunday
> >afternoon), the 2nd class cars can be overflowing, yet there is quite a
> >bit of space in first class. Definitely worth the small difference in
> >price.
>
> But not worth the cost of a first class eurailpass.
the total cost of a trip to Europe. And if one is doing a lot of rail
circle trips where you might be changing trains at a moment's notice on
a whim with no time to go into a station for a ticket, that eurailpass
can be mighty handy.
--
wf.
Hatunen wrote:
>
>
> >On certain routes on certain days (say, Venizia/Milan on Sunday
> >afternoon), the 2nd class cars can be overflowing, yet there is quite a
> >bit of space in first class. Definitely worth the small difference in
> >price.
>
> But not worth the cost of a first class eurailpass.
Jan 5th 2005, 2:22 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
Just buy a shorter Eurailpass than you think you need. Last pass I bought
(2001), I did not realize that it is good for a number of days, as opposed
to the span of time they used to be good for. In 1985 a fifteen day pass
was good for 15 days from first use. Now a 15 day pass allows you 15 days
usage over a longer time span. A year probably. So was expensive rail
travel as I only used 9 days and really only needed 6 days of long trips in
a month. Get a short time pass for long trips and buy a ticket for local
trips.
Bill
"randee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to
> the total cost of a trip to Europe. And if one is doing a lot of rail
> circle trips where you might be changing trains at a moment's notice on
> a whim with no time to go into a station for a ticket, that eurailpass
> can be mighty handy.
> --
> wf.
> Hatunen wrote:
> >
> >
> > >On certain routes on certain days (say, Venizia/Milan on Sunday
> > >afternoon), the 2nd class cars can be overflowing, yet there is quite a
> > >bit of space in first class. Definitely worth the small difference in
> > >price.
> >
> > But not worth the cost of a first class eurailpass.
> >
(2001), I did not realize that it is good for a number of days, as opposed
to the span of time they used to be good for. In 1985 a fifteen day pass
was good for 15 days from first use. Now a 15 day pass allows you 15 days
usage over a longer time span. A year probably. So was expensive rail
travel as I only used 9 days and really only needed 6 days of long trips in
a month. Get a short time pass for long trips and buy a ticket for local
trips.
Bill
"randee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to
> the total cost of a trip to Europe. And if one is doing a lot of rail
> circle trips where you might be changing trains at a moment's notice on
> a whim with no time to go into a station for a ticket, that eurailpass
> can be mighty handy.
> --
> wf.
> Hatunen wrote:
> >
> >
> > >On certain routes on certain days (say, Venizia/Milan on Sunday
> > >afternoon), the 2nd class cars can be overflowing, yet there is quite a
> > >bit of space in first class. Definitely worth the small difference in
> > >price.
> >
> > But not worth the cost of a first class eurailpass.
> >
Jan 6th 2005, 6:11 am
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
<< The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to the
total cost of a trip to Europe >>
It's surprising how often this thinking pops up in this news group. To spend a
great deal of money on a trip to Europe and then to worry for days how to
lessen an ATM charge -- or how to get to a place where you get an
insignificantly better rate but that is somewhere on the far side of a city --
and so on.
total cost of a trip to Europe >>
It's surprising how often this thinking pops up in this news group. To spend a
great deal of money on a trip to Europe and then to worry for days how to
lessen an ATM charge -- or how to get to a place where you get an
insignificantly better rate but that is somewhere on the far side of a city --
and so on.
Jan 6th 2005, 9:02 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:34:30 -0700, randee <[email protected]>
wrote:
>The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to
>the total cost of a trip to Europe. And if one is doing a lot of rail
>circle trips where you might be changing trains at a moment's notice on
>a whim with no time to go into a station for a ticket, that eurailpass
>can be mighty handy.
In our daily lives most of us are constantly making decisions
comparing convenience and cost, and each of us has our own
criteria for making that decision.
You are addressing two quesitions: the worth of a first class
Eurailpass vs a second class, and the worth of a pass at all.
The first question covers a lot of variables, incluidng the
amount of travel to be done, whether the pass is a full pass or a
flexipass (the OP was addressing flexipasses) and how much you
are willing to pay for a little extra leg room and such. (which
depends on the particular train to some extent). I nbote that a
first class 30-day full Eurailpass costs some $330 more than a
second class. If on a budge, this will pay for some pretty nice
meals. But to each his/her own ...
As toi the value of a Eurailpass, I find them hard to justify.
The web sites that sell Eurialpasses will give you pont-to-point
fares to compare them with, but these fares are always the full,
non-discount, fares, and frankly you can do a lot better just
buying tickets in a station.
If you are going to spend most of your time in just one country,
like Germany, you may do a lot better buying a German rail pass.
Even without a pass, Germany has so many ways to get discounts
it's almost bewildering; I have a senior Bahncard 50 which saved
my family a bundle last summer.
Passes are nice for sudden changes of destination, but I wonder
how much one is willing to pay to be able to grab a=notehr train
with only four minutes to do it.
Chacun a son gout ...
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
wrote:
>The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to
>the total cost of a trip to Europe. And if one is doing a lot of rail
>circle trips where you might be changing trains at a moment's notice on
>a whim with no time to go into a station for a ticket, that eurailpass
>can be mighty handy.
In our daily lives most of us are constantly making decisions
comparing convenience and cost, and each of us has our own
criteria for making that decision.
You are addressing two quesitions: the worth of a first class
Eurailpass vs a second class, and the worth of a pass at all.
The first question covers a lot of variables, incluidng the
amount of travel to be done, whether the pass is a full pass or a
flexipass (the OP was addressing flexipasses) and how much you
are willing to pay for a little extra leg room and such. (which
depends on the particular train to some extent). I nbote that a
first class 30-day full Eurailpass costs some $330 more than a
second class. If on a budge, this will pay for some pretty nice
meals. But to each his/her own ...
As toi the value of a Eurailpass, I find them hard to justify.
The web sites that sell Eurialpasses will give you pont-to-point
fares to compare them with, but these fares are always the full,
non-discount, fares, and frankly you can do a lot better just
buying tickets in a station.
If you are going to spend most of your time in just one country,
like Germany, you may do a lot better buying a German rail pass.
Even without a pass, Germany has so many ways to get discounts
it's almost bewildering; I have a senior Bahncard 50 which saved
my family a bundle last summer.
Passes are nice for sudden changes of destination, but I wonder
how much one is willing to pay to be able to grab a=notehr train
with only four minutes to do it.
Chacun a son gout ...
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Jan 6th 2005, 9:10 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
On 06 Jan 2005 19:11:42 GMT, [email protected] (Steltzjr) wrote:
><< The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to the
>total cost of a trip to Europe >>
>It's surprising how often this thinking pops up in this news group. To spend a
>great deal of money on a trip to Europe and then to worry for days how to
>lessen an ATM charge -- or how to get to a place where you get an
>insignificantly better rate but that is somewhere on the far side of a city --
>and so on.
A lot of people have a set amount they budget to spend. While no
single small saving is significant, a number of same can be
important.
For the most part ATM charges won't hurt you much, but I see no
reason not to use the one that charges me the least, especially
since it is not the European ATMs charging me, but my card issuer
in the USA, something I can take care of before even leaving on
the trip by simply being judicious in my choice of financial
institution. Besides it frosts me to have a bank charge me $2 for
a transaction and an additional 3% on the exchange rate, a total
of $17 on a $500 withdrawal, when many banks do not.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
><< The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to the
>total cost of a trip to Europe >>
>It's surprising how often this thinking pops up in this news group. To spend a
>great deal of money on a trip to Europe and then to worry for days how to
>lessen an ATM charge -- or how to get to a place where you get an
>insignificantly better rate but that is somewhere on the far side of a city --
>and so on.
A lot of people have a set amount they budget to spend. While no
single small saving is significant, a number of same can be
important.
For the most part ATM charges won't hurt you much, but I see no
reason not to use the one that charges me the least, especially
since it is not the European ATMs charging me, but my card issuer
in the USA, something I can take care of before even leaving on
the trip by simply being judicious in my choice of financial
institution. Besides it frosts me to have a bank charge me $2 for
a transaction and an additional 3% on the exchange rate, a total
of $17 on a $500 withdrawal, when many banks do not.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Jan 7th 2005, 9:34 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
On 06 Jan 2005 19:11:42 GMT, [email protected] (Steltzjr) wrote:
><< The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to the
>total cost of a trip to Europe >>
>It's surprising how often this thinking pops up in this news group. To spend a
>great deal of money on a trip to Europe and then to worry for days how to
>lessen an ATM charge -- or how to get to a place where you get an
>insignificantly better rate but that is somewhere on the far side of a city --
>and so on.
I don't know what premium is being discussed, as a lot has been
snipped. However, I think we were talking about the difference between
a 2nd class Eurail pass and a 1st class Eurail pass. For a 15 day
unlimited pass, the difference in cost is a little over $200. For a
10-day Flexipass, the difference is about $240. This is not an
insignificant portion of any European trip I've ever taken. One must
also consider what you get for that $200. In most circumstances, 2nd
class rail travel is perfectly comfortable and the additional space I
would get in 1st class wouldn't be worth $200 to me. I would much
rather spend the money on several good restaurant meals.
Of course, the 2nd class pass is available only to those under 26
years old. If you are considering whether to buy 1st or 2nd class
tickets for a single trip, there may be sufficient reason to spring
for 1st class, depending on how crowded the train is and how long the
trip is. I will only say that in years of train travel, I've only
upgraded to 1st class once.
I would rather pay extra to ride a faster train than to ride 1st class
in a slower train, for instance. In Italy, the cost of a 2nd class
ticket in a Eurostar train, with obligatory seat reservation included,
is about the same as the cost of a 1st class ticket in an
interregional train. I don't mind at all spending the extra money on a
Eurostar train, as I consider it good value for the money. I would
never pay extra for 1st class on an interregional train unless it was
the only train available at the time I wanted to travel and I was
pretty certain I would have trouble finding a seat in 2nd class, for
instance on a Friday evening just before a holiday.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
><< The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to the
>total cost of a trip to Europe >>
>It's surprising how often this thinking pops up in this news group. To spend a
>great deal of money on a trip to Europe and then to worry for days how to
>lessen an ATM charge -- or how to get to a place where you get an
>insignificantly better rate but that is somewhere on the far side of a city --
>and so on.
I don't know what premium is being discussed, as a lot has been
snipped. However, I think we were talking about the difference between
a 2nd class Eurail pass and a 1st class Eurail pass. For a 15 day
unlimited pass, the difference in cost is a little over $200. For a
10-day Flexipass, the difference is about $240. This is not an
insignificant portion of any European trip I've ever taken. One must
also consider what you get for that $200. In most circumstances, 2nd
class rail travel is perfectly comfortable and the additional space I
would get in 1st class wouldn't be worth $200 to me. I would much
rather spend the money on several good restaurant meals.
Of course, the 2nd class pass is available only to those under 26
years old. If you are considering whether to buy 1st or 2nd class
tickets for a single trip, there may be sufficient reason to spring
for 1st class, depending on how crowded the train is and how long the
trip is. I will only say that in years of train travel, I've only
upgraded to 1st class once.
I would rather pay extra to ride a faster train than to ride 1st class
in a slower train, for instance. In Italy, the cost of a 2nd class
ticket in a Eurostar train, with obligatory seat reservation included,
is about the same as the cost of a 1st class ticket in an
interregional train. I don't mind at all spending the extra money on a
Eurostar train, as I consider it good value for the money. I would
never pay extra for 1st class on an interregional train unless it was
the only train available at the time I wanted to travel and I was
pretty certain I would have trouble finding a seat in 2nd class, for
instance on a Friday evening just before a holiday.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Jan 24th 2005, 7:24 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
On 2005-01-05, Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 04:33:33 -0600, Jester
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>I couldn't agree more. Its worth it for the choice to either sit in
>>>2nd or 1st depending on the route you are on.
I accidentally sat in 1st class today. I didn't even notice until the
end of the trip.
> I'm looking through the booklet "Ihre Nachtzugreise" I picked up
> from Deutschebahn last summer, and it appears the Sitzwagens have
> no class designation, while the price of sleeping campartments
> depends on the number of berths; I suppose one could think of a
> one-berth compartment as "first class"
Even if one could, that wouldn't have any baring on 1st vs 2nd class
pass.
>>On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 04:33:33 -0600, Jester
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>I couldn't agree more. Its worth it for the choice to either sit in
>>>2nd or 1st depending on the route you are on.
I accidentally sat in 1st class today. I didn't even notice until the
end of the trip.
> I'm looking through the booklet "Ihre Nachtzugreise" I picked up
> from Deutschebahn last summer, and it appears the Sitzwagens have
> no class designation, while the price of sleeping campartments
> depends on the number of berths; I suppose one could think of a
> one-berth compartment as "first class"
Even if one could, that wouldn't have any baring on 1st vs 2nd class
pass.
Jan 24th 2005, 7:24 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
On 2005-01-06, Steltzjr <[email protected]> wrote:
><< The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to the
> total cost of a trip to Europe >>
> It's surprising how often this thinking pops up in this news group. To spend a
> great deal of money on a trip to Europe and then to worry for days how to
> lessen an ATM charge -- or how to get to a place where you get an
> insignificantly better rate but that is somewhere on the far side of a city --
> and so on.
We're not talking about ATM charges here. We're talking about paying $180
extra to sit in another part of the train.
><< The premium for a first class eurailpass is insignificant compared to the
> total cost of a trip to Europe >>
> It's surprising how often this thinking pops up in this news group. To spend a
> great deal of money on a trip to Europe and then to worry for days how to
> lessen an ATM charge -- or how to get to a place where you get an
> insignificantly better rate but that is somewhere on the far side of a city --
> and so on.
We're not talking about ATM charges here. We're talking about paying $180
extra to sit in another part of the train.
Jan 24th 2005, 7:31 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
On 24 Jan 2005 20:24:40 GMT, Jesper Lauridsen
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2005-01-05, Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 04:33:33 -0600, Jester
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>I couldn't agree more. Its worth it for the choice to either sit in
>>>>2nd or 1st depending on the route you are on.
>I accidentally sat in 1st class today. I didn't even notice until the
>end of the trip.
That's happened to me more than once. That's why I normally won't pay
extra for it.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2005-01-05, Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 04:33:33 -0600, Jester
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>I couldn't agree more. Its worth it for the choice to either sit in
>>>>2nd or 1st depending on the route you are on.
>I accidentally sat in 1st class today. I didn't even notice until the
>end of the trip.
That's happened to me more than once. That's why I normally won't pay
extra for it.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Jan 24th 2005, 10:26 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:31:16 +0100, B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 24 Jan 2005 20:24:40 GMT, Jesper Lauridsen
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>On 2005-01-05, Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 04:33:33 -0600, Jester
>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>I couldn't agree more. Its worth it for the choice to either sit in
>>>>>2nd or 1st depending on the route you are on.
>>I accidentally sat in 1st class today. I didn't even notice until the
>>end of the trip.
>That's happened to me more than once. That's why I normally won't pay
>extra for it.
The only way I can usually tell is if there are few people in the
carriage.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
>On 24 Jan 2005 20:24:40 GMT, Jesper Lauridsen
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>On 2005-01-05, Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 04:33:33 -0600, Jester
>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>I couldn't agree more. Its worth it for the choice to either sit in
>>>>>2nd or 1st depending on the route you are on.
>>I accidentally sat in 1st class today. I didn't even notice until the
>>end of the trip.
>That's happened to me more than once. That's why I normally won't pay
>extra for it.
The only way I can usually tell is if there are few people in the
carriage.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Jan 24th 2005, 3:23 pm
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
I'm not sure where you got the $180. To use a concrete example, the
fare from Zurich to Andermatt via St. Gallen is ~86 Swiss francs in 2nd
class and ~142 Swiss francs in first class. Without looking up the
current exchange rate, probably about US$70 and US$110 or so
respectively. Quite a difference, but not near $180 for a rather decent
day trip. With a Eurail pass the cost works out to about US$70 per day
of travel in first class. So the pass is a good deal, first class for
the price of second. It is an especially good deal if second class is
standing room only and there are seats in first class (think
Venice/Milan on a Sunday afternoon).
Also, the time you would spend in line at the train station to pick up
individual tickets could then be spent reading museum exhibit labels.
From some postings here I understand tickets purchased on trains now are
to be subject to heavy surcharges (at least in Italy?). This makes
changing trains on a whim expensive unless you dash into the station on
that 5 minutes between trains and expect to get through the line in that
time for a new ticket.
Railpasses are probably not useful if you do only short rail trips or
not very many of them.
--
wf.
Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
>
>
>
> We're not talking about ATM charges here. We're talking about paying $180
> extra to sit in another part of the train.
fare from Zurich to Andermatt via St. Gallen is ~86 Swiss francs in 2nd
class and ~142 Swiss francs in first class. Without looking up the
current exchange rate, probably about US$70 and US$110 or so
respectively. Quite a difference, but not near $180 for a rather decent
day trip. With a Eurail pass the cost works out to about US$70 per day
of travel in first class. So the pass is a good deal, first class for
the price of second. It is an especially good deal if second class is
standing room only and there are seats in first class (think
Venice/Milan on a Sunday afternoon).
Also, the time you would spend in line at the train station to pick up
individual tickets could then be spent reading museum exhibit labels.
From some postings here I understand tickets purchased on trains now are
to be subject to heavy surcharges (at least in Italy?). This makes
changing trains on a whim expensive unless you dash into the station on
that 5 minutes between trains and expect to get through the line in that
time for a new ticket.
Railpasses are probably not useful if you do only short rail trips or
not very many of them.
--
wf.
Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
>
>
>
> We're not talking about ATM charges here. We're talking about paying $180
> extra to sit in another part of the train.
Jan 24th 2005, 11:59 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:23:03 -0700, randee <[email protected]> wrote:
>Also, the time you would spend in line at the train station to pick up
>individual tickets could then be spent reading museum exhibit labels.
>From some postings here I understand tickets purchased on trains now are
>to be subject to heavy surcharges (at least in Italy?). This makes
>changing trains on a whim expensive unless you dash into the station on
>that 5 minutes between trains and expect to get through the line in that
>time for a new ticket.
Even with a Eurail pass, you're going to have to spend some time
buying tickets. The Eurail pass doesn't cover every type of train. For
instance, the Eurostar trains in Italy, which are the fastest and most
comfortable, are not covered, so you would have to buy a supplement to
use along with your Eurail pass. On some routes, most of the trains
are Eurostar, so that train in five minutes might require lining up at
the ticket counter anyway.
In any case, tickets in Italy are so cheap that it would never pay to
use a Eurail pass for travel there.
It's true that there is now a heavy surcharge for buying tickets on
the train in Italy. However, most stations have ticket machines and
you can also get tickets from many travel agents in Italy. If you're
using Eurostar trains, you can get an e-ticket on the internet, on the
www.trenitalia.it site. (However, the option is only shown on the
Italian language page.)
As you say, with a Eurail pass, you can change your destination on a
whim, but I don't think very many people head off in the morning for
Verona and decide on a whim in mid-trip to go to Padua instead. And
unless you had a timetable with you, you wouldn't know whether there
was a train in five minutes or not. In any case, you could always
catch the next train if that rare event should happen.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
>Also, the time you would spend in line at the train station to pick up
>individual tickets could then be spent reading museum exhibit labels.
>From some postings here I understand tickets purchased on trains now are
>to be subject to heavy surcharges (at least in Italy?). This makes
>changing trains on a whim expensive unless you dash into the station on
>that 5 minutes between trains and expect to get through the line in that
>time for a new ticket.
Even with a Eurail pass, you're going to have to spend some time
buying tickets. The Eurail pass doesn't cover every type of train. For
instance, the Eurostar trains in Italy, which are the fastest and most
comfortable, are not covered, so you would have to buy a supplement to
use along with your Eurail pass. On some routes, most of the trains
are Eurostar, so that train in five minutes might require lining up at
the ticket counter anyway.
In any case, tickets in Italy are so cheap that it would never pay to
use a Eurail pass for travel there.
It's true that there is now a heavy surcharge for buying tickets on
the train in Italy. However, most stations have ticket machines and
you can also get tickets from many travel agents in Italy. If you're
using Eurostar trains, you can get an e-ticket on the internet, on the
www.trenitalia.it site. (However, the option is only shown on the
Italian language page.)
As you say, with a Eurail pass, you can change your destination on a
whim, but I don't think very many people head off in the morning for
Verona and decide on a whim in mid-trip to go to Padua instead. And
unless you had a timetable with you, you wouldn't know whether there
was a train in five minutes or not. In any case, you could always
catch the next train if that rare event should happen.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Jan 25th 2005, 1:23 pm
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
Well, actually the first thing I usually do upon arriving inn Italy is
to purchase a current Pozzorario. And yes indeed, we have changed plans
in an instant, heading off for Pistoia via the coast line to Pisa
instead of the planned Aulla/Lucca route to give one example that comes
to mind right away.
I do recall a Eurostar surcharge, but the basic fare is included with
the rail pass. As we had to make a reservation for Eurostar we paid the
10 Euro or so surcharge when we made the reservation. For that matter
the sort of routes we take for the most part are not served by Eurostar,
say Bozen to Meran or Belluno to Calalzo.................
I think perhaps you are looking at it more from a resident standpoint
rather than from a rail tourist standpoint.
--
wf.
B Vaughan wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:23:03 -0700, randee <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Also, the time you would spend in line at the train station to pick up
> >individual tickets could then be spent reading museum exhibit labels.
> >From some postings here I understand tickets purchased on trains now are
> >to be subject to heavy surcharges (at least in Italy?). This makes
> >changing trains on a whim expensive unless you dash into the station on
> >that 5 minutes between trains and expect to get through the line in that
> >time for a new ticket.
>
> Even with a Eurail pass, you're going to have to spend some time
> buying tickets. The Eurail pass doesn't cover every type of train. For
> instance, the Eurostar trains in Italy, which are the fastest and most
> comfortable, are not covered, so you would have to buy a supplement to
> use along with your Eurail pass. On some routes, most of the trains
> are Eurostar, so that train in five minutes might require lining up at
> the ticket counter anyway.
>
> In any case, tickets in Italy are so cheap that it would never pay to
> use a Eurail pass for travel there.
>
> It's true that there is now a heavy surcharge for buying tickets on
> the train in Italy. However, most stations have ticket machines and
> you can also get tickets from many travel agents in Italy. If you're
> using Eurostar trains, you can get an e-ticket on the internet, on the
> www.trenitalia.it site. (However, the option is only shown on the
> Italian language page.)
>
> As you say, with a Eurail pass, you can change your destination on a
> whim, but I don't think very many people head off in the morning for
> Verona and decide on a whim in mid-trip to go to Padua instead. And
> unless you had a timetable with you, you wouldn't know whether there
> was a train in five minutes or not. In any case, you could always
> catch the next train if that rare event should happen.
to purchase a current Pozzorario. And yes indeed, we have changed plans
in an instant, heading off for Pistoia via the coast line to Pisa
instead of the planned Aulla/Lucca route to give one example that comes
to mind right away.
I do recall a Eurostar surcharge, but the basic fare is included with
the rail pass. As we had to make a reservation for Eurostar we paid the
10 Euro or so surcharge when we made the reservation. For that matter
the sort of routes we take for the most part are not served by Eurostar,
say Bozen to Meran or Belluno to Calalzo.................
I think perhaps you are looking at it more from a resident standpoint
rather than from a rail tourist standpoint.
--
wf.
B Vaughan wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:23:03 -0700, randee <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Also, the time you would spend in line at the train station to pick up
> >individual tickets could then be spent reading museum exhibit labels.
> >From some postings here I understand tickets purchased on trains now are
> >to be subject to heavy surcharges (at least in Italy?). This makes
> >changing trains on a whim expensive unless you dash into the station on
> >that 5 minutes between trains and expect to get through the line in that
> >time for a new ticket.
>
> Even with a Eurail pass, you're going to have to spend some time
> buying tickets. The Eurail pass doesn't cover every type of train. For
> instance, the Eurostar trains in Italy, which are the fastest and most
> comfortable, are not covered, so you would have to buy a supplement to
> use along with your Eurail pass. On some routes, most of the trains
> are Eurostar, so that train in five minutes might require lining up at
> the ticket counter anyway.
>
> In any case, tickets in Italy are so cheap that it would never pay to
> use a Eurail pass for travel there.
>
> It's true that there is now a heavy surcharge for buying tickets on
> the train in Italy. However, most stations have ticket machines and
> you can also get tickets from many travel agents in Italy. If you're
> using Eurostar trains, you can get an e-ticket on the internet, on the
> www.trenitalia.it site. (However, the option is only shown on the
> Italian language page.)
>
> As you say, with a Eurail pass, you can change your destination on a
> whim, but I don't think very many people head off in the morning for
> Verona and decide on a whim in mid-trip to go to Padua instead. And
> unless you had a timetable with you, you wouldn't know whether there
> was a train in five minutes or not. In any case, you could always
> catch the next train if that rare event should happen.
Jan 26th 2005, 12:25 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:23:53 -0700, randee <[email protected]> wrote:
>Well, actually the first thing I usually do upon arriving inn Italy is
>to purchase a current Pozzorario. And yes indeed, we have changed plans
>in an instant, heading off for Pistoia via the coast line to Pisa
>instead of the planned Aulla/Lucca route to give one example that comes
>to mind right away.
>I do recall a Eurostar surcharge, but the basic fare is included with
>the rail pass. As we had to make a reservation for Eurostar we paid the
>10 Euro or so surcharge when we made the reservation. For that matter
>the sort of routes we take for the most part are not served by Eurostar,
>say Bozen to Meran or Belluno to Calalzo.................
Did you have one of the Italian rail passes or a Eurail pass? The cost
of a Eurail pass is probably five times what any tourist could manage
to spend on train fares in Italy. The fare from Bozen to Meran, for
instance, is 3.25 euros. The fare from Belluno to Calalzo is 3 euros.
I don't know where you started from to get to Pistoia, but even if you
started from Venice and took a Eurostar on the tract Bologna-Firenze,
you would only pay 30 euros. At those prices, you could pay the
occasional 25 euro fine for buying your ticket on the train and still
beat the price of a Eurail pass.
>I think perhaps you are looking at it more from a resident standpoint
>rather than from a rail tourist standpoint.
I travelled by rail in Italy before I became a resident. The first
time I was here was before I even met my present husband. I did a
quick calculation and realized that it made no sense to even buy the
Italian rail pass, let alone a Eurail pass.
The first time I came to Italy, my time here was followed by a zigzag
trip across Europe with my daughter, ending in England. I calculated
the cost of the Eurail pass for the entire trip, not just the time in
Italy, and even so, it was cheaper to buy point-to-point tickets. My
daughter, who was under 26 at the time, got a Eurail pass, but didn't
activate it until after she left Italy. In her case, the pass was
cheaper, but not by a whole lot. For travel within Italy, a Eurail
pass would be like buying a Porsche for the daily commute to the train
station. (Well, the Porsche would at least be fun to drive, I guess,
while the Eurail pass doesn't get you any pleasure advantage that I
can see.)
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
>Well, actually the first thing I usually do upon arriving inn Italy is
>to purchase a current Pozzorario. And yes indeed, we have changed plans
>in an instant, heading off for Pistoia via the coast line to Pisa
>instead of the planned Aulla/Lucca route to give one example that comes
>to mind right away.
>I do recall a Eurostar surcharge, but the basic fare is included with
>the rail pass. As we had to make a reservation for Eurostar we paid the
>10 Euro or so surcharge when we made the reservation. For that matter
>the sort of routes we take for the most part are not served by Eurostar,
>say Bozen to Meran or Belluno to Calalzo.................
Did you have one of the Italian rail passes or a Eurail pass? The cost
of a Eurail pass is probably five times what any tourist could manage
to spend on train fares in Italy. The fare from Bozen to Meran, for
instance, is 3.25 euros. The fare from Belluno to Calalzo is 3 euros.
I don't know where you started from to get to Pistoia, but even if you
started from Venice and took a Eurostar on the tract Bologna-Firenze,
you would only pay 30 euros. At those prices, you could pay the
occasional 25 euro fine for buying your ticket on the train and still
beat the price of a Eurail pass.
>I think perhaps you are looking at it more from a resident standpoint
>rather than from a rail tourist standpoint.
I travelled by rail in Italy before I became a resident. The first
time I was here was before I even met my present husband. I did a
quick calculation and realized that it made no sense to even buy the
Italian rail pass, let alone a Eurail pass.
The first time I came to Italy, my time here was followed by a zigzag
trip across Europe with my daughter, ending in England. I calculated
the cost of the Eurail pass for the entire trip, not just the time in
Italy, and even so, it was cheaper to buy point-to-point tickets. My
daughter, who was under 26 at the time, got a Eurail pass, but didn't
activate it until after she left Italy. In her case, the pass was
cheaper, but not by a whole lot. For travel within Italy, a Eurail
pass would be like buying a Porsche for the daily commute to the train
station. (Well, the Porsche would at least be fun to drive, I guess,
while the Eurail pass doesn't get you any pleasure advantage that I
can see.)
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Jan 26th 2005, 3:59 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First vs. second class
Usually we get some sort of multi-country pass, since normally travel
through at least two countries is involved. I think they are called
something like Flexipass Savers. They seem to work out to about 45 Euro
per day per person. If we are losing money on the Italian portion,
then we are probably saving a lot on the Austrian or German portions.
Now if we are not traveling much, we then just get the individual
tickets. For example, last year we only visited Verona and Ravenna. So
we only needed a round trip ticket between the two. Although in fact we
did get hit with a 10 or 15 Euro surcharge on the Padova/Verona part of
the trip because we wound up on an IC train.
Now this year I do know that a standard 2nd class ticket for just the
Zuerich to Andermatt portion of our trip is about 80 Euro, so the pass
will be a savings.
--
wf.
B Vaughan wrote:
>
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:23:53 -0700, randee <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Well, actually the first thing I usually do upon arriving inn Italy is
> >to purchase a current Pozzorario. And yes indeed, we have changed plans
> >in an instant, heading off for Pistoia via the coast line to Pisa
> >instead of the planned Aulla/Lucca route to give one example that comes
> >to mind right away.
> >
> >I do recall a Eurostar surcharge, but the basic fare is included with
> >the rail pass. As we had to make a reservation for Eurostar we paid the
> >10 Euro or so surcharge when we made the reservation. For that matter
> >the sort of routes we take for the most part are not served by Eurostar,
> >say Bozen to Meran or Belluno to Calalzo.................
>
> Did you have one of the Italian rail passes or a Eurail pass? The cost
> of a Eurail pass is probably five times what any tourist could manage
> to spend on train fares in Italy. The fare from Bozen to Meran, for
> instance, is 3.25 euros. The fare from Belluno to Calalzo is 3 euros.
> I don't know where you started from to get to Pistoia, but even if you
> started from Venice and took a Eurostar on the tract Bologna-Firenze,
> you would only pay 30 euros. At those prices, you could pay the
> occasional 25 euro fine for buying your ticket on the train and still
> beat the price of a Eurail pass.
> >
> >I think perhaps you are looking at it more from a resident standpoint
> >rather than from a rail tourist standpoint.
>
> I travelled by rail in Italy before I became a resident. The first
> time I was here was before I even met my present husband. I did a
> quick calculation and realized that it made no sense to even buy the
> Italian rail pass, let alone a Eurail pass.
>
> The first time I came to Italy, my time here was followed by a zigzag
> trip across Europe with my daughter, ending in England. I calculated
> the cost of the Eurail pass for the entire trip, not just the time in
> Italy, and even so, it was cheaper to buy point-to-point tickets. My
> daughter, who was under 26 at the time, got a Eurail pass, but didn't
> activate it until after she left Italy. In her case, the pass was
> cheaper, but not by a whole lot. For travel within Italy, a Eurail
> pass would be like buying a Porsche for the daily commute to the train
> station. (Well, the Porsche would at least be fun to drive, I guess,
> while the Eurail pass doesn't get you any pleasure advantage that I
> can see.)
>
> --
> Barbara Vaughan
> My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
> I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
--
wf.
Wayne Flowers
Randee Greenwald
[email protected]
through at least two countries is involved. I think they are called
something like Flexipass Savers. They seem to work out to about 45 Euro
per day per person. If we are losing money on the Italian portion,
then we are probably saving a lot on the Austrian or German portions.
Now if we are not traveling much, we then just get the individual
tickets. For example, last year we only visited Verona and Ravenna. So
we only needed a round trip ticket between the two. Although in fact we
did get hit with a 10 or 15 Euro surcharge on the Padova/Verona part of
the trip because we wound up on an IC train.
Now this year I do know that a standard 2nd class ticket for just the
Zuerich to Andermatt portion of our trip is about 80 Euro, so the pass
will be a savings.
--
wf.
B Vaughan wrote:
>
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:23:53 -0700, randee <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Well, actually the first thing I usually do upon arriving inn Italy is
> >to purchase a current Pozzorario. And yes indeed, we have changed plans
> >in an instant, heading off for Pistoia via the coast line to Pisa
> >instead of the planned Aulla/Lucca route to give one example that comes
> >to mind right away.
> >
> >I do recall a Eurostar surcharge, but the basic fare is included with
> >the rail pass. As we had to make a reservation for Eurostar we paid the
> >10 Euro or so surcharge when we made the reservation. For that matter
> >the sort of routes we take for the most part are not served by Eurostar,
> >say Bozen to Meran or Belluno to Calalzo.................
>
> Did you have one of the Italian rail passes or a Eurail pass? The cost
> of a Eurail pass is probably five times what any tourist could manage
> to spend on train fares in Italy. The fare from Bozen to Meran, for
> instance, is 3.25 euros. The fare from Belluno to Calalzo is 3 euros.
> I don't know where you started from to get to Pistoia, but even if you
> started from Venice and took a Eurostar on the tract Bologna-Firenze,
> you would only pay 30 euros. At those prices, you could pay the
> occasional 25 euro fine for buying your ticket on the train and still
> beat the price of a Eurail pass.
> >
> >I think perhaps you are looking at it more from a resident standpoint
> >rather than from a rail tourist standpoint.
>
> I travelled by rail in Italy before I became a resident. The first
> time I was here was before I even met my present husband. I did a
> quick calculation and realized that it made no sense to even buy the
> Italian rail pass, let alone a Eurail pass.
>
> The first time I came to Italy, my time here was followed by a zigzag
> trip across Europe with my daughter, ending in England. I calculated
> the cost of the Eurail pass for the entire trip, not just the time in
> Italy, and even so, it was cheaper to buy point-to-point tickets. My
> daughter, who was under 26 at the time, got a Eurail pass, but didn't
> activate it until after she left Italy. In her case, the pass was
> cheaper, but not by a whole lot. For travel within Italy, a Eurail
> pass would be like buying a Porsche for the daily commute to the train
> station. (Well, the Porsche would at least be fun to drive, I guess,
> while the Eurail pass doesn't get you any pleasure advantage that I
> can see.)
>
> --
> Barbara Vaughan
> My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
> I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
--
wf.
Wayne Flowers
Randee Greenwald
[email protected]
