First class by train in UK.
Oct 4th 2005, 9:14 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
In article <1h3vhfp.8g7b0re9owjkN%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.com>,
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
offy <[email protected]> wrote:
> DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
> []
> > I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
> > better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
>
> Decades of underfunding, and a disastrous privatisation that IIRC still
> makes the railways more expensive to run than during BR.
The price can be cheaper if you forego needed capital investment, as
you have stated.
jay
Tue Oct 04, 2005
mailto:[email protected]
> After a lot of
> misery, there has been some noticeable improvement though, at least on
> the lines I tend to take a lot. The Manchester to London route is every
> 30 minutes, and just over 2 hours- and reliable, more importantly.
> There's still a long way to go though and you're never going to get the
> low prices you get in some countries. There's just not the public will
> to fund that kind of subsidy.
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
offy <[email protected]> wrote:
> DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
> []
> > I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
> > better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
>
> Decades of underfunding, and a disastrous privatisation that IIRC still
> makes the railways more expensive to run than during BR.
The price can be cheaper if you forego needed capital investment, as
you have stated.
jay
Tue Oct 04, 2005
mailto:[email protected]
> After a lot of
> misery, there has been some noticeable improvement though, at least on
> the lines I tend to take a lot. The Manchester to London route is every
> 30 minutes, and just over 2 hours- and reliable, more importantly.
> There's still a long way to go though and you're never going to get the
> low prices you get in some countries. There's just not the public will
> to fund that kind of subsidy.
Oct 4th 2005, 11:11 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <1h3vhfp.8g7b0re9owjkN%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.com>,
> chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
> offy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> >
> > []
> > > I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
> > > better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
> >
> > Decades of underfunding, and a disastrous privatisation that IIRC still
> > makes the railways more expensive to run than during BR.
>
> The price can be cheaper if you forego needed capital investment, as
> you have stated.
Except the disastrous privatisation has led to a rise in costs,
regardless of the needed investment. Thatcher simply hated public
transport, and Blair doesn't seem to accept the reality of the situation
either. This is a small country with a very dense population. It simply
makes good sense to invest in better transport networks.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
photos at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer
> In article <1h3vhfp.8g7b0re9owjkN%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.com>,
> chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
> offy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> >
> > []
> > > I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
> > > better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
> >
> > Decades of underfunding, and a disastrous privatisation that IIRC still
> > makes the railways more expensive to run than during BR.
>
> The price can be cheaper if you forego needed capital investment, as
> you have stated.
Except the disastrous privatisation has led to a rise in costs,
regardless of the needed investment. Thatcher simply hated public
transport, and Blair doesn't seem to accept the reality of the situation
either. This is a small country with a very dense population. It simply
makes good sense to invest in better transport networks.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
photos at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer
Oct 4th 2005, 9:12 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:05 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>>>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>>>From and (especially) to what?
>> http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
The answer was for Des, who can read Dutch AFAIR.
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>>>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>>>From and (especially) to what?
>> http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
The answer was for Des, who can read Dutch AFAIR.
--
Martin
Oct 4th 2005, 9:16 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 00:11:59 +0100, [email protected]
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
offy) wrote:
>Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In article <1h3vhfp.8g7b0re9owjkN%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.com>,
>> chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
>> offy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>> >
>> > []
>> > > I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
>> > > better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
>> >
>> > Decades of underfunding, and a disastrous privatisation that IIRC still
>> > makes the railways more expensive to run than during BR.
>>
>> The price can be cheaper if you forego needed capital investment, as
>> you have stated.
>Except the disastrous privatisation has led to a rise in costs,
>regardless of the needed investment. Thatcher simply hated public
>transport, and Blair doesn't seem to accept the reality of the situation
>either. This is a small country with a very dense population. It simply
>makes good sense to invest in better transport networks.
Despite vast investment DB still had one of the most spectacular high
speed train crashes - in Eschede partly caused by poor maintenance.
--
Martin
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
offy) wrote:
>Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In article <1h3vhfp.8g7b0re9owjkN%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.com>,
>> chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
>> offy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>> >
>> > []
>> > > I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
>> > > better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
>> >
>> > Decades of underfunding, and a disastrous privatisation that IIRC still
>> > makes the railways more expensive to run than during BR.
>>
>> The price can be cheaper if you forego needed capital investment, as
>> you have stated.
>Except the disastrous privatisation has led to a rise in costs,
>regardless of the needed investment. Thatcher simply hated public
>transport, and Blair doesn't seem to accept the reality of the situation
>either. This is a small country with a very dense population. It simply
>makes good sense to invest in better transport networks.
Despite vast investment DB still had one of the most spectacular high
speed train crashes - in Eschede partly caused by poor maintenance.
--
Martin
Oct 5th 2005, 4:12 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:05 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]. ..
>>> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>>>>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>>>>From and (especially) to what?
>>> http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>>Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
> The answer was for Des, who can read Dutch AFAIR.
But I would like to know too.
(and I didn't ask because some else had already done so)
tim
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:05 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]. ..
>>> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>>>>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>>>>From and (especially) to what?
>>> http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>>Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
> The answer was for Des, who can read Dutch AFAIR.
But I would like to know too.
(and I didn't ask because some else had already done so)
tim
Oct 5th 2005, 4:17 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:12:02 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:05 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected] ...
>>>> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>>>>>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>>>>>From and (especially) to what?
>>>> http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>>>Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
>> The answer was for Des, who can read Dutch AFAIR.
>But I would like to know too.
>(and I didn't ask because some else had already done so)
Perhaps NS or a local might like to translate it?
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:05 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected] ...
>>>> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>>>>>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>>>>>From and (especially) to what?
>>>> http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>>>Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
>> The answer was for Des, who can read Dutch AFAIR.
>But I would like to know too.
>(and I didn't ask because some else had already done so)
Perhaps NS or a local might like to translate it?
--
Martin
Oct 5th 2005, 4:18 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
tim (moved to sweden) [on Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:05 +0200] wrote:
>
> "Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
> >>
> >>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
> >>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
> >>
> >>From and (especially) to what?
> >
> > http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>
> Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
I guess Martin meant no harm.
From now on, travelers must obtain a tocket before boarding a train in
Holland. If caught without a ticket, they must buy one and pay an
additional 35 euro fine.
Until October 1, travelers could obtain a ticket on the train if they
reported themselves before tickets were checked by train personnel. In
such case, they would pay the ticket price plus a 10 euro "train
administration fee".
In order to prevent violent reactions by travelers, the railway company
installed 50 "support teams" at various stations, to assist train
personnel if necessary.
--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.ardane.com
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany
>
> "Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
> >>
> >>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
> >>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
> >>
> >>From and (especially) to what?
> >
> > http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>
> Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
I guess Martin meant no harm.
From now on, travelers must obtain a tocket before boarding a train in
Holland. If caught without a ticket, they must buy one and pay an
additional 35 euro fine.
Until October 1, travelers could obtain a ticket on the train if they
reported themselves before tickets were checked by train personnel. In
such case, they would pay the ticket price plus a 10 euro "train
administration fee".
In order to prevent violent reactions by travelers, the railway company
installed 50 "support teams" at various stations, to assist train
personnel if necessary.
--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.ardane.com
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany
Oct 5th 2005, 5:32 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
"Erick T. Barkhuis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ...
> tim (moved to sweden) [on Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:05 +0200] wrote:
>> "Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>> >>
>> >>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>> >>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>> >>
>> >>From and (especially) to what?
>> >
>> > http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>> Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
> I guess Martin meant no harm.
No, but as a regular poster (assuming that it is the same Martin
that I meet elsewhere) I assumed that he knew newsgroups are
full of "me toos" (not to mention the possibility that someone
might, god forbid, actually look for the info in the archives)
> From now on, travelers must obtain a tocket before boarding a train in
> Holland. If caught without a ticket, they must buy one and pay an
> additional 35 euro fine.
Thanks, so not actually much different to the system in many
other countries, except that the fine is a bit on the high side.
Where it not for the fact that they have made buying a ticket
at the station next to impossible this might be reasonable.
tim
news:[email protected] ...
> tim (moved to sweden) [on Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:05 +0200] wrote:
>> "Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>> >>
>> >>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>> >>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>> >>
>> >>From and (especially) to what?
>> >
>> > http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>> Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
> I guess Martin meant no harm.
No, but as a regular poster (assuming that it is the same Martin
that I meet elsewhere) I assumed that he knew newsgroups are
full of "me toos" (not to mention the possibility that someone
might, god forbid, actually look for the info in the archives)
> From now on, travelers must obtain a tocket before boarding a train in
> Holland. If caught without a ticket, they must buy one and pay an
> additional 35 euro fine.
Thanks, so not actually much different to the system in many
other countries, except that the fine is a bit on the high side.
Where it not for the fact that they have made buying a ticket
at the station next to impossible this might be reasonable.
tim
Oct 5th 2005, 5:38 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
tim (moved to sweden) [on Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:32:47 +0200] wrote:
[Fines in Dutch trains if caught without ticket]
> Were it not for the fact that they have made buying a ticket
> at the station next to impossible this might be reasonable.
That's exactly what most travellers complain about whenever this fine
issue is brought up. Due to personnel cuts, tickets are to be obtained
from vending machines at most (even major) stations. People make mistakes
there, because there's no way they are kindly adviced what ticket to buy.
On the other hand, until now, many simply didn't buy a ticket at all,
because there was no significant fine and on short stretches, chances
were that you didn't "get caught" for a week or longer!
--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.ardane.com
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany
[Fines in Dutch trains if caught without ticket]
> Were it not for the fact that they have made buying a ticket
> at the station next to impossible this might be reasonable.
That's exactly what most travellers complain about whenever this fine
issue is brought up. Due to personnel cuts, tickets are to be obtained
from vending machines at most (even major) stations. People make mistakes
there, because there's no way they are kindly adviced what ticket to buy.
On the other hand, until now, many simply didn't buy a ticket at all,
because there was no significant fine and on short stretches, chances
were that you didn't "get caught" for a week or longer!
--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.ardane.com
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany
Oct 5th 2005, 8:19 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
Erick T. Barkhuis <[email protected]> wrote:
> tim (moved to sweden) [on Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:32:47 +0200] wrote:
>
> [Fines in Dutch trains if caught without ticket]
> > Were it not for the fact that they have made buying a ticket
> > at the station next to impossible this might be reasonable.
>
> That's exactly what most travellers complain about whenever this fine
> issue is brought up. Due to personnel cuts, tickets are to be obtained
> from vending machines at most (even major) stations. People make mistakes
> there, because there's no way they are kindly adviced what ticket to buy.
Has the Dutch fare structure become more complicated recently, or was it
always like that?
In the UK (which has a complicated fare structure) the policy on buying
tickets onboard varies from company to company. Virgin recently changed
their policy so you could only buy standard open fares onboard. Those
can be very expensive!
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
> tim (moved to sweden) [on Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:32:47 +0200] wrote:
>
> [Fines in Dutch trains if caught without ticket]
> > Were it not for the fact that they have made buying a ticket
> > at the station next to impossible this might be reasonable.
>
> That's exactly what most travellers complain about whenever this fine
> issue is brought up. Due to personnel cuts, tickets are to be obtained
> from vending machines at most (even major) stations. People make mistakes
> there, because there's no way they are kindly adviced what ticket to buy.
Has the Dutch fare structure become more complicated recently, or was it
always like that?
In the UK (which has a complicated fare structure) the policy on buying
tickets onboard varies from company to company. Virgin recently changed
their policy so you could only buy standard open fares onboard. Those
can be very expensive!
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Oct 5th 2005, 8:29 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
offy [on Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:19:16 +0100] wrote:
> Erick T. Barkhuis <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Due to personnel cuts, tickets are to be obtained
> > from vending machines at most (even major) stations. People make mistakes
> > there, because there's no way they are kindly adviced what ticket to buy.
>
> Has the Dutch fare structure become more complicated recently, or was it
> always like that?
No recent changes to the fare structure in Holland. And since we have
only one railway company (and public road transport companies alle use
the same structure), it's not too complicated for locals.
Yet, we have:
- regular tickets one-way and "retour"
- youth tickets
- elderly tickets
- group tickets
- special offers
- week- and month tickets
- ...and the famous "strippenkaart" which can be used on short railway
stretches as well.
Then, of course, it depends on whether or not you need to make use of a
metro or bus connection. Also, we have 1st class and 2nd class train
accomodation, which also complicates things.
Finally, we have special tickets for car drivers who decide to leave
their car at the city entrance, and continue their trip by train. Oh, and
then we have special combination tickets that allow travellers to see a
theatre show and travel by train on the same ticket.
See? It's not that difficult and complicated after all.
--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.ardane.com
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany
offy [on Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:19:16 +0100] wrote:
> Erick T. Barkhuis <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Due to personnel cuts, tickets are to be obtained
> > from vending machines at most (even major) stations. People make mistakes
> > there, because there's no way they are kindly adviced what ticket to buy.
>
> Has the Dutch fare structure become more complicated recently, or was it
> always like that?
No recent changes to the fare structure in Holland. And since we have
only one railway company (and public road transport companies alle use
the same structure), it's not too complicated for locals.
Yet, we have:
- regular tickets one-way and "retour"
- youth tickets
- elderly tickets
- group tickets
- special offers
- week- and month tickets
- ...and the famous "strippenkaart" which can be used on short railway
stretches as well.
Then, of course, it depends on whether or not you need to make use of a
metro or bus connection. Also, we have 1st class and 2nd class train
accomodation, which also complicates things.
Finally, we have special tickets for car drivers who decide to leave
their car at the city entrance, and continue their trip by train. Oh, and
then we have special combination tickets that allow travellers to see a
theatre show and travel by train on the same ticket.
See? It's not that difficult and complicated after all.
--
Low Countries By Bike - http://lowcountriesbybike.ardane.com
Riding on two wheels in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany
Oct 5th 2005, 8:39 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
Erick T. Barkhuis <[email protected]> wrote:
> chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
> offy [on Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:19:16 +0100] wrote:
> > Erick T. Barkhuis <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Due to personnel cuts, tickets are to be obtained
> > > from vending machines at most (even major) stations. People make mistakes
> > > there, because there's no way they are kindly adviced what ticket to buy.
> >
> > Has the Dutch fare structure become more complicated recently, or was it
> > always like that?
>
> No recent changes to the fare structure in Holland. And since we have
> only one railway company (and public road transport companies alle use
> the same structure), it's not too complicated for locals.
The bus system in Manchester is a fare nightmare. If I catch it to the
college where I teach, there are about 5 different possible fares from
50p to 90p depending on the bus company! I don't know which is which, so
I have to always tell the driver where I'm going- and even then, it can
take a while for the driver to figure it out. There are also too many
buses on some of the more popular routes, which is nice in a way, as you
can get a bus every 30 seconds, but the buses frequently run empty, and
from the environmental point of view doesn't see a good idea.
London OTOH has really cleaned up its act with buses IMO- then again, as
an integrated system it allows the Mayor the potential to do so.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
> chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
> offy [on Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:19:16 +0100] wrote:
> > Erick T. Barkhuis <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Due to personnel cuts, tickets are to be obtained
> > > from vending machines at most (even major) stations. People make mistakes
> > > there, because there's no way they are kindly adviced what ticket to buy.
> >
> > Has the Dutch fare structure become more complicated recently, or was it
> > always like that?
>
> No recent changes to the fare structure in Holland. And since we have
> only one railway company (and public road transport companies alle use
> the same structure), it's not too complicated for locals.
The bus system in Manchester is a fare nightmare. If I catch it to the
college where I teach, there are about 5 different possible fares from
50p to 90p depending on the bus company! I don't know which is which, so
I have to always tell the driver where I'm going- and even then, it can
take a while for the driver to figure it out. There are also too many
buses on some of the more popular routes, which is nice in a way, as you
can get a bus every 30 seconds, but the buses frequently run empty, and
from the environmental point of view doesn't see a good idea.
London OTOH has really cleaned up its act with buses IMO- then again, as
an integrated system it allows the Mayor the potential to do so.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Oct 5th 2005, 7:33 pm
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
offy wrote:
>
> Except the disastrous privatisation has led to a rise in costs,
> regardless of the needed investment. Thatcher simply hated public
> transport, and Blair doesn't seem to accept the reality of the situation
> either. This is a small country with a very dense population. It simply
> makes good sense to invest in better transport networks.
>
Thatcjer is famously on record as saying that "anybody over the age of
26 found on a bus could count himself a failure in life"
offy wrote:
>
> Except the disastrous privatisation has led to a rise in costs,
> regardless of the needed investment. Thatcher simply hated public
> transport, and Blair doesn't seem to accept the reality of the situation
> either. This is a small country with a very dense population. It simply
> makes good sense to invest in better transport networks.
>
Thatcjer is famously on record as saying that "anybody over the age of
26 found on a bus could count himself a failure in life"
Oct 5th 2005, 8:26 pm
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:18:28 +0200, Erick T. Barkhuis
<[email protected]> wrote:
>tim (moved to sweden) [on Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:05 +0200] wrote:
>>
>> "Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>> >>
>> >>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>> >>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>> >>
>> >>From and (especially) to what?
>> >
>> > http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>>
>> Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
>I guess Martin meant no harm.
>From now on, travelers must obtain a tocket before boarding a train in
>Holland. If caught without a ticket, they must buy one and pay an
>additional 35 euro fine.
I think you get an invoice sent to your home address? Not sure how
this will work for foreigners.
There are all sorts of exceptions like you are allowed to be ticket
less three times a year, if you claim you were late for the train.
>Until October 1, travelers could obtain a ticket on the train if they
>reported themselves before tickets were checked by train personnel. In
>such case, they would pay the ticket price plus a 10 euro "train
>administration fee".
As a result many travelled free :-)
>In order to prevent violent reactions by travelers, the railway company
>installed 50 "support teams" at various stations, to assist train
>personnel if necessary.
Who were fed up being beaten up by passengers without tickets.
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>tim (moved to sweden) [on Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:05 +0200] wrote:
>>
>> "Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>> >>
>> >>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>> >>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>> >>
>> >>From and (especially) to what?
>> >
>> > http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>>
>> Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
>I guess Martin meant no harm.
>From now on, travelers must obtain a tocket before boarding a train in
>Holland. If caught without a ticket, they must buy one and pay an
>additional 35 euro fine.
I think you get an invoice sent to your home address? Not sure how
this will work for foreigners.
There are all sorts of exceptions like you are allowed to be ticket
less three times a year, if you claim you were late for the train.
>Until October 1, travelers could obtain a ticket on the train if they
>reported themselves before tickets were checked by train personnel. In
>such case, they would pay the ticket price plus a 10 euro "train
>administration fee".
As a result many travelled free :-)
>In order to prevent violent reactions by travelers, the railway company
>installed 50 "support teams" at various stations, to assist train
>personnel if necessary.
Who were fed up being beaten up by passengers without tickets.
--
Martin
Oct 5th 2005, 9:50 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1h3z9rn.1ajbd1skq01s0N%this_address_is_for_sp [email protected]...
> In the UK (which has a complicated fare structure) the policy on buying
> tickets onboard varies from company to company. Virgin recently changed
> their policy so you could only buy standard open fares onboard. Those
> can be very expensive!
I don't know how recent that was, but I bought a saver on a Virgin train
within the last month. The circumstances in which I did so might indicate
that Virgin Trains are on a sticky wicket if they apply such a policy
absolutely. The clerk in the ticket office in my (small) local station was
on his lunch break, and I had to get a permit to travel from the machine. I
was unable to find a guard on my first train (First Great Western Link), and
had a tight connection at Reading. I therefore got my ticket on the Virgin
train from Reading to Brum. If VT had tried to rip me off because the FGWL
employee at West Drayton happened to be having his sarnie, I would ceratinly
have played my face.
Alan Harrison
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1h3z9rn.1ajbd1skq01s0N%this_address_is_for_sp [email protected]...
> In the UK (which has a complicated fare structure) the policy on buying
> tickets onboard varies from company to company. Virgin recently changed
> their policy so you could only buy standard open fares onboard. Those
> can be very expensive!
I don't know how recent that was, but I bought a saver on a Virgin train
within the last month. The circumstances in which I did so might indicate
that Virgin Trains are on a sticky wicket if they apply such a policy
absolutely. The clerk in the ticket office in my (small) local station was
on his lunch break, and I had to get a permit to travel from the machine. I
was unable to find a guard on my first train (First Great Western Link), and
had a tight connection at Reading. I therefore got my ticket on the Virgin
train from Reading to Brum. If VT had tried to rip me off because the FGWL
employee at West Drayton happened to be having his sarnie, I would ceratinly
have played my face.
Alan Harrison
