First class by train in UK.
Oct 2nd 2005, 11:34 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
Martin <[email protected]> writes:
> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
> ticket have been totally changed from today.
From and (especially) to what?
And why can't the ticket machines take bloody Visa cards or at least
notes?
> I guess the new train rules combined with the new "one offence
> qualifies for deportation of non EU short term residents" law could
> result in a single trip to oblivion.
Have any of the local pondslime ("politicians") called it being
"tough" on something?
Des
> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
> ticket have been totally changed from today.
From and (especially) to what?
And why can't the ticket machines take bloody Visa cards or at least
notes?
> I guess the new train rules combined with the new "one offence
> qualifies for deportation of non EU short term residents" law could
> result in a single trip to oblivion.
Have any of the local pondslime ("politicians") called it being
"tough" on something?
Des
Oct 2nd 2005, 6:59 pm
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
>>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/trave...582776,00.html
> If the first class carriage is at the front of the train, you arrive
> sooner than the other passengers!
When I was commuting Southampton - London I had an Annual First Season
ticket. On a few occoasions, when the train filled up at Winchester and
First was full (but still plenty of seats in STD), som efolks were chose to
stand in first, rather than sit with the scum in STD.
> If the first class carriage is at the front of the train, you arrive
> sooner than the other passengers!
When I was commuting Southampton - London I had an Annual First Season
ticket. On a few occoasions, when the train filled up at Winchester and
First was full (but still plenty of seats in STD), som efolks were chose to
stand in first, rather than sit with the scum in STD.
Oct 2nd 2005, 7:02 pm
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:15:52 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/trave...582776,00.html
If the first class carriage is at the front of the train, you arrive
sooner than the other passengers!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/trave...582776,00.html
If the first class carriage is at the front of the train, you arrive
sooner than the other passengers!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Oct 2nd 2005, 7:53 pm
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
Well, there's nothing like train travel, is there, to bring out the
latent snobbery in the British character !
I have spend hundreds of hours on inter-city trains over the last few
years, always but always in Standard Class, and have almost never been
bothered by my fellow passengers' behaviour.
I can think of only 2 occasions - one was on the Midland Mainline
service from Derby to London where there was a guy watching a DVD on
his laptop, soundtrack blasting out. I politely asked him to turn it
down and he was very apologetic, then whipped out a pair of earphones
and spared us the rest of the movie (no idea why he didn't do this
first off). The other was Virgin from London to Manchester where there
was a mother with 4 very young children (all under 10) who were running
riot in the carriage, jostling people, throwing things at each other...
I would have remonstrated with her but she had clearly lost control of
the situation and looked thoroughly defeated, poor woman. Put this one
down to experience and moved down the train.
On the whole, I find, people are more than tolerable if you are
prepared to relax and let them be.
Nick
latent snobbery in the British character !
I have spend hundreds of hours on inter-city trains over the last few
years, always but always in Standard Class, and have almost never been
bothered by my fellow passengers' behaviour.
I can think of only 2 occasions - one was on the Midland Mainline
service from Derby to London where there was a guy watching a DVD on
his laptop, soundtrack blasting out. I politely asked him to turn it
down and he was very apologetic, then whipped out a pair of earphones
and spared us the rest of the movie (no idea why he didn't do this
first off). The other was Virgin from London to Manchester where there
was a mother with 4 very young children (all under 10) who were running
riot in the carriage, jostling people, throwing things at each other...
I would have remonstrated with her but she had clearly lost control of
the situation and looked thoroughly defeated, poor woman. Put this one
down to experience and moved down the train.
On the whole, I find, people are more than tolerable if you are
prepared to relax and let them be.
Nick
Oct 2nd 2005, 8:20 pm
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>From and (especially) to what?
http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>And why can't the ticket machines take bloody Visa cards or at least
>notes?
The same reason parking machines can use a chip knip but not a credit
card?
>> I guess the new train rules combined with the new "one offence
>> qualifies for deportation of non EU short term residents" law could
>> result in a single trip to oblivion.
>Have any of the local pondslime ("politicians") called it being
>"tough" on something?
Foreigners?
--
Martin
wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>From and (especially) to what?
http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
>And why can't the ticket machines take bloody Visa cards or at least
>notes?
The same reason parking machines can use a chip knip but not a credit
card?
>> I guess the new train rules combined with the new "one offence
>> qualifies for deportation of non EU short term residents" law could
>> result in a single trip to oblivion.
>Have any of the local pondslime ("politicians") called it being
>"tough" on something?
Foreigners?
--
Martin
Oct 2nd 2005, 9:52 pm
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
"DDT Filled Mormons" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:15:52 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/trave...582776,00.html
> If the first class carriage is at the front of the train, you arrive
> sooner than the other passengers!
Trouble is that when you go back you arrive later!
The big problem with first class in Britain is the enormous mark-up for the
leisure traveller buying a walk-up fare. For instance, from my local station
(West Drayton) to my hometown (Walsall), the cheapest walk-up standard
return fare is a saver at �34.90. The first class fare is �166.
By comparison, a second class intercity fare from Milan to Desenzano costs
EUR 9.19, and first class EUR 12.70. Not only are fares cheaper in absolute
terms, but the mark-up is comparatively much more reasonable.
Alan Harrison
message news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:15:52 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/trave...582776,00.html
> If the first class carriage is at the front of the train, you arrive
> sooner than the other passengers!
Trouble is that when you go back you arrive later!
The big problem with first class in Britain is the enormous mark-up for the
leisure traveller buying a walk-up fare. For instance, from my local station
(West Drayton) to my hometown (Walsall), the cheapest walk-up standard
return fare is a saver at �34.90. The first class fare is �166.
By comparison, a second class intercity fare from Milan to Desenzano costs
EUR 9.19, and first class EUR 12.70. Not only are fares cheaper in absolute
terms, but the mark-up is comparatively much more reasonable.
Alan Harrison
Oct 3rd 2005, 3:33 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>And why can't the ticket machines take bloody Visa cards or at least
>>notes?
> The same reason parking machines can use a chip knip but not a credit
> card?
What is a chip knip?
Marianne
news:[email protected]...
> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>And why can't the ticket machines take bloody Visa cards or at least
>>notes?
> The same reason parking machines can use a chip knip but not a credit
> card?
What is a chip knip?
Marianne
Oct 3rd 2005, 3:39 am
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:33:28 -0700, "Mimi" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>And why can't the ticket machines take bloody Visa cards or at least
>>>notes?
>> The same reason parking machines can use a chip knip but not a credit
>> card?
>What is a chip knip?
Money credited on a chip on a Dutch cash card.
--
Martin
>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>And why can't the ticket machines take bloody Visa cards or at least
>>>notes?
>> The same reason parking machines can use a chip knip but not a credit
>> card?
>What is a chip knip?
Money credited on a chip on a Dutch cash card.
--
Martin
Oct 3rd 2005, 5:08 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Keith Anderson) wrote:
> *From:* Keith Anderson <[email protected]>
> *Date:* Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:39:50 +0100
>
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:15:52 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >http://observer.guardian.co.uk/trave...582776,00.html
>
> Only time I ever venture into 1st Class is when they're offering
> "Weekend First" - flat rate supplement to fill the 1st class seats
> which would otherwise remain vacant on Saturdays and Sundays..
I wish I could afford them more often. On the increasingly frequent
occasions when nobody can be bothered to sell me a ticket between home
(there is neither an office nor a machine at my local station) and
Liverpool Street I have taken to buying a first-class ticket home (about
the same cost as a standard-class return). You can actually get a seat,
and usually have the ones beside and opposite you empty. Lovely.
----------------------------------------------
The poster formerly known as [email protected].
[email protected] (Keith Anderson) wrote:
> *From:* Keith Anderson <[email protected]>
> *Date:* Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:39:50 +0100
>
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:15:52 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >http://observer.guardian.co.uk/trave...582776,00.html
>
> Only time I ever venture into 1st Class is when they're offering
> "Weekend First" - flat rate supplement to fill the 1st class seats
> which would otherwise remain vacant on Saturdays and Sundays..
I wish I could afford them more often. On the increasingly frequent
occasions when nobody can be bothered to sell me a ticket between home
(there is neither an office nor a machine at my local station) and
Liverpool Street I have taken to buying a first-class ticket home (about
the same cost as a standard-class return). You can actually get a seat,
and usually have the ones beside and opposite you empty. Lovely.
----------------------------------------------
The poster formerly known as [email protected].
Oct 3rd 2005, 7:09 am
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
"DDT Filled Mormons" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
.snip.
> I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
> better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
You get the answer by rearranging the following well-known phrase or
saying - Thatcher Margaret.
JohnT
message news:[email protected]...
.snip.
> I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
> better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
You get the answer by rearranging the following well-known phrase or
saying - Thatcher Margaret.
JohnT
Oct 3rd 2005, 7:09 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:45:30 +0100, DDT Filled Mormons
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
>better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
Some possible answers....
1) Years of underinvestment when a nationalised industry. I worked for
BR (as was) 1971-1979 and various figures were published during that
time, some showing that the then German Federal Railway was by all
accounts twice the size of BR whichever way you looked at it: track
miles, route miles, number of services, number of locomotives, number
of personnel (etc) ......but DB received five times the amount of
investment that BR did.
There were also some figures showing that France spent more on public
transport in the Greater Paris area than Britain did on its entire
rail system.
Generally, the published figures showed BR at the bottom of the
European league when it came to investment.
Yes, I know there are lies, damned lies and statistics, but it seems
that the system really was comparatively cash-starved.
2) Wagonload freight was discouraged then abandoned - this at the time
when the TOPS ("Total Operations Processing System") computer system
was being introduced....to better monitor wagonload freight amongst
other things! The powers that be sent us (the then Cambridge Control
Office staff) on a training course to learn how TOPS would
"revolutionise" the work at Whitemoor Marshalling Yard. Whitemoor was
subsequently closed and is now an open prison!!!
3) The privatisation was a joke, fragmenting the network. A week or
two thereafter, I was traveliing from Newquay back to Bristol and we
came to a grinding halt at Par - track circuit failure. And there we
stood, for a VERY long time. There were staff at Bodmin Parkway
station who could have sorted things quickly, but were no longer
allowed to, as they were no longer BR employees but belonged to the
(then) South Wales & West operating company. In the meantime, a fleet
of taxis was being sent down narrow Cornish lanes to collect Railtrack
employees to sort the problem.
There has been a lot of de-skilling in the industry and the
flexibility of a unified, national network has gone.
I could go on for ever, but that'll do for starters!.
Keith, Bristol, UK
DE-MUNG for email replies
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
>better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
Some possible answers....
1) Years of underinvestment when a nationalised industry. I worked for
BR (as was) 1971-1979 and various figures were published during that
time, some showing that the then German Federal Railway was by all
accounts twice the size of BR whichever way you looked at it: track
miles, route miles, number of services, number of locomotives, number
of personnel (etc) ......but DB received five times the amount of
investment that BR did.
There were also some figures showing that France spent more on public
transport in the Greater Paris area than Britain did on its entire
rail system.
Generally, the published figures showed BR at the bottom of the
European league when it came to investment.
Yes, I know there are lies, damned lies and statistics, but it seems
that the system really was comparatively cash-starved.
2) Wagonload freight was discouraged then abandoned - this at the time
when the TOPS ("Total Operations Processing System") computer system
was being introduced....to better monitor wagonload freight amongst
other things! The powers that be sent us (the then Cambridge Control
Office staff) on a training course to learn how TOPS would
"revolutionise" the work at Whitemoor Marshalling Yard. Whitemoor was
subsequently closed and is now an open prison!!!
3) The privatisation was a joke, fragmenting the network. A week or
two thereafter, I was traveliing from Newquay back to Bristol and we
came to a grinding halt at Par - track circuit failure. And there we
stood, for a VERY long time. There were staff at Bodmin Parkway
station who could have sorted things quickly, but were no longer
allowed to, as they were no longer BR employees but belonged to the
(then) South Wales & West operating company. In the meantime, a fleet
of taxis was being sent down narrow Cornish lanes to collect Railtrack
employees to sort the problem.
There has been a lot of de-skilling in the industry and the
flexibility of a unified, national network has gone.
I could go on for ever, but that'll do for starters!.
Keith, Bristol, UK
DE-MUNG for email replies
Oct 3rd 2005, 7:18 am
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
[]
> I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
> better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
Decades of underfunding, and a disastrous privatisation that IIRC still
makes the railways more expensive to run than during BR. After a lot of
misery, there has been some noticeable improvement though, at least on
the lines I tend to take a lot. The Manchester to London route is every
30 minutes, and just over 2 hours- and reliable, more importantly.
There's still a long way to go though and you're never going to get the
low prices you get in some countries. There's just not the public will
to fund that kind of subsidy.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
photos at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer
[]
> I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
> better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
Decades of underfunding, and a disastrous privatisation that IIRC still
makes the railways more expensive to run than during BR. After a lot of
misery, there has been some noticeable improvement though, at least on
the lines I tend to take a lot. The Manchester to London route is every
30 minutes, and just over 2 hours- and reliable, more importantly.
There's still a long way to go though and you're never going to get the
low prices you get in some countries. There's just not the public will
to fund that kind of subsidy.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
photos at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer
Oct 3rd 2005, 7:20 am
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
JohnT <[email protected]> wrote:
> "DDT Filled Mormons" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>
> .snip.
>
> > I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
> > better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
>
> You get the answer by rearranging the following well-known phrase or
> saying - Thatcher Margaret.
She shares the blame for sure, but just as much as Major, and it was
Blair who said "transport is not a priority" in his first cabinet
meeting. Well, that one bit him up the arse.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
photos at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer
> "DDT Filled Mormons" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>
> .snip.
>
> > I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
> > better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
>
> You get the answer by rearranging the following well-known phrase or
> saying - Thatcher Margaret.
She shares the blame for sure, but just as much as Major, and it was
Blair who said "transport is not a priority" in his first cabinet
meeting. Well, that one bit him up the arse.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
photos at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer
Oct 3rd 2005, 7:45 am
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 09:52:58 +0000 (UTC), "ALAN HARRISON"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"DDT Filled Mormons" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:15:52 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/trave...582776,00.html
>> If the first class carriage is at the front of the train, you arrive
>> sooner than the other passengers!
>Trouble is that when you go back you arrive later!
>The big problem with first class in Britain is the enormous mark-up for the
>leisure traveller buying a walk-up fare. For instance, from my local station
>(West Drayton) to my hometown (Walsall), the cheapest walk-up standard
>return fare is a saver at �34.90. The first class fare is �166.
This I have seen with my own eyes.
>By comparison, a second class intercity fare from Milan to Desenzano costs
>EUR 9.19, and first class EUR 12.70. Not only are fares cheaper in absolute
>terms, but the mark-up is comparatively much more reasonable.
I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"DDT Filled Mormons" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:15:52 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/trave...582776,00.html
>> If the first class carriage is at the front of the train, you arrive
>> sooner than the other passengers!
>Trouble is that when you go back you arrive later!
>The big problem with first class in Britain is the enormous mark-up for the
>leisure traveller buying a walk-up fare. For instance, from my local station
>(West Drayton) to my hometown (Walsall), the cheapest walk-up standard
>return fare is a saver at �34.90. The first class fare is �166.
This I have seen with my own eyes.
>By comparison, a second class intercity fare from Milan to Desenzano costs
>EUR 9.19, and first class EUR 12.70. Not only are fares cheaper in absolute
>terms, but the mark-up is comparatively much more reasonable.
I am astonished to agree that even Italy's shitty rail system is
better than Britain's. How that happened is a mystery to me.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Oct 4th 2005, 9:09 am
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: First class by train in UK.
"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>>From and (especially) to what?
> http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
tim
news:[email protected]...
> On 03 Oct 2005 00:34:36 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>Martin <[email protected]> writes:
>>> BTW the rules applied to people caught on Dutch trains without a
>>> ticket have been totally changed from today.
>>From and (especially) to what?
> http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?c...ikel&c=Artikel
Thanks Martin, that's really helpful - not!
tim
