Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Lennart Petersen" <[email protected]> a écrit:
    >> But there's a big gain in the smoother and faster transactions without those small
    >> annoying coins.
    >
    > Not everyone is annoyed by small coins, and many people are quite efficient
    > with them.
    >
    > If eliminating them is a big gain, then logically eliminating all coins should be
    > an even bigger gain. Why hasn't this been done?

People want to eliminate them because they are small, not because they are coins. So
your "logic" is nonsequitur.

The fact that I sweep small crumbs off my plate at the end of lunch does not mean
that I should just throw my whole sandwich in the garbage without eating it.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
    >"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> a écrit:
    >>> The rounding can never be fair, unless it is possible to round down to a price
    >>> of zero.
    >>
    >> Sure, given a world in which there are goods that sell for 1c or 2c which are
    >> commonly purchased on their own.
    >
    > Even without such goods. The recent post-euro burst of inflation demonstrates this.

Then you will have to come up with some other explanation beyond the one quoted
above, which you keep promulgating. It cannot explain any effects or occurrences in
the real world.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Osmo Ronkanen <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wroteL
    >> The rounding can never be fair, unless it is possible to round down to a price
    >> of zero.
    >
    > After seven months of using euro coins my smallest purchase is 11 cents. I do not
    > consider the cost of purchases of 1 and 2 cents an issue at all. In fact many
    > stores probably round them to zero as the registers are not programmed to take it
    > into consideration, nor do they have the change anyway.

When I tried to make a fruit purchase in Spain that would have been about 3c, it was
rounded to zero.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "greg byshenk" <[email protected]> a écrit:
    >> Yes, the new rounding may be 7.4 times larger, but 7.4 times an insignificant
    >> amount may continue to be an insignificant amount.
    >
    > Then why not round to the nearest euro, or the nearest five euros?

Let me ask you this: Why shouldn't we have coins in values of 1/1000 Euro,
1/10000 Euro, etc.?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Desmond Coughlan <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Miguel Cruz <[email protected]> a écrit :
    >> When I tried to make a fruit purchase in Spain that would have been about 3c, it
    >> was rounded to zero.
    >
    > Hey, free fruit, cool !!

Try to buy a single orange in southern Spain - they'll just look at you funny and
tell you to take it.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini
photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Le Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:40:00 GMT, Miguel Cruz <[email protected]> a écrit :

{ snip }

    > When I tried to make a fruit purchase in Spain that would have been about 3c, it
    > was rounded to zero.

Hey, free fruit, cool !!

--
Desmond Coughlan |****#1 YGL#4 YFC#1 YFB#1 UKRMMA#14 two#38 Yamaha FJR1300 |BONY#48
ANORAK#11 desmond @ zeouane.org http: // www . zeouane . org

On 14 Jul 2002 02:35:41 -0700, Osmo Ronkanen wrote in
<[email protected] >:

    >Chris Raistrick <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:<[email protected]> ...
    >
    >
    >> In those countries, the decision on whether to round or not is done ad hoc. So the
    >> retailer gets to decide if change is required. I've often been asked for the small
    >> change when the price is just over the nearest NOK or CHF and been given a blank
    >> stare instead of the small coins when the price fell just short. Not only is that
    >> controllable by the retailer but wouldn't show in the inflation figures.
    >>
    >
    >
    >Sounds very strange. Why on earth should the retailer have a right to decide if he
    >gives money back. I like much more a system where I have a legal right to pay an
    >exact price as determined by law.

Which they do in those countries but common practice is something else.

    >Also that system makes simpler for book keeping as the money given in is not
    >determined randomly.
    >
    >Maybe you do not really get that there are no one and two cent coins here.
    >
    >The Finnish system does not show on inflation figures either.

--
Cheers,

Chris

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:49:24 GMT, Mxsmanic wrote in
<[email protected]. com>:

    >"Chris Raistrick" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    >news: [email protected]...
    >
    >> Sorry, what "burst of inflation"?
    >
    >In January.

So, that's a "burst" is it? One month?

Still let's ignore that a statistical series of 1 is a pathetic way of proving a
point and let's consider that the euro wasn't fully used in January and any
inflationary pressure that the coinage would have generated would have been
visible later on.

But let's ignore that and try to remember that January's inflation figure is based on
Feb 2001 to Jan 2002 and only includes one month where the euro was in circulation.

But then let's try to ignore that too and get a clue that January's inflation was
less than the average for 2002 and .02% less than the eurozone average.

Still let's ignore all of the above and latch onto the idea that if the prices
haven't changed then neither will the index have changed. The whole point here is
that the prices aren't being rounded to the nearest 5 cents but the total bill is.

Oh, go on then, we'll ignore that too and then concentrate on the fact that as the
index is based on 12 month's price increases and we're only half way through the
year, neither you or anyone could sensibly draw any conclusions as to the effect the
euro has had on inflation, let alone solely based on January's figures.

We could ignore all of the above but only if we were ignorant.

The short version of all this is that your claim that upward rounding can be seen in
the inflation figures is just another one of your inventions.

--
Cheers,

Chris

"Lennart Petersen" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > > False. Central banks make a small profit on the minting of the smallest coins.
    > You're complete wrong. I'm very sure the smallest coins are more expensive to mint
    > compared with their face value.
As I can read out from US mint their average expense is USD 0,02/coin. So at least
the 1,2,5 and 10öre coins were probably real uneconomic to produce. And in addition
the production cost there are distribution costs for the banks.
L.P

"Chris Raistrick" <[email protected]> escribió en el mensaje
news:[email protected]...
    >
    > The rules were defined for use in legal documents not for everyday use by
    > thee and me.

I don't know if those rules include the spelling on a check, but I use to write
'euros' and 'centimos' in that kind of documents and, so far, I have got no problems.
I live in Spain.

    > And of the centavo in Spain but the use seems to be dying off already.

As I wrote above, the word for 'cent' in Spanish is 'centimo' (acute accent on the
'e'), as it was when centimos of peseta existed, and it is widely used. Actually I
cannot remember anyone in Spain speaking Spanish who use 'cent(s)' rather than
'centimo(s)'

On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Chris Raistrick wrote:

    > >Even without such goods. The recent post-euro burst of inflation
    > >demonstrates this.
    >
    > Sorry, what "burst of inflation"?

It's common impression at least in Italy that most prices went up either just before
the introduction of the euro (e.g. tram ticket in Milan from 1500 lire to 1 euro =
1936.27 lire !) or just afterwards (e.g. newspapers rounded from 88 to 90 eurocent).

It is also common impression that foodstuff and alike went up much more than the
official inflation rate, and that such rate is false (or at least the "basket"
of goods used for calculation does not coincide with the typical buying pattern
of a family).

j coulter <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > "Osmo Ronkanen" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
    > > [email protected]...
    > >
    > >> The competition means that all prices cannot just be "rounded up".
    > >
    > > It is mathematically inevitable that all prices can be rounded up, but not all
    > > prices can be rounded down. Therefore, any rounding will cause a general price
    > > increase.

That is simply total nonsense. This is not about mathematics. Maybe you still have
not understood that the rounding is done only on total of the purchases, not on
individual items. The idea that the total would in any significant number of cases be
1 or 2 cents is ludicrous. When was the case YOU bought something so small?

Also your claim that those purchaes must be rounded up is false. The law simply
states that they are NOT rounded. In fact stores have rounded' them down to zero.

Also the consumer price indez is calculated on products so it does not take the
rounding into consideration at all.

    > Mathematically rounding is done up and down. You are thinking economics where
    > giving away the 2.5 cent down is unthinkable (but one can package the goods in such
    > a way as to avoid rounding. ie 5 1 cent objects in a 5 cent package. (or if you are
    > devious, of course, 3 in a package that gets rounded up)

So the customer picks two packages and wins one cent. There packaking cannot prevent
rouding as there are items that are weighted.

Osmo

"Donna Evleth" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...

    > There was some silly reason given for calling the cents centimes in France

It's not silly at all: cent in French is the same as 100. We therefore use centimes
instead in order to avoid the confusion, and it's the official recommendation from
the government.

    > but I think the real reason was not to burden the old folks too much.

Not at all. Centime is a generic term meaning 100th, and can be used indifferently
with euros or francs.

    > I pooled our holdings (my husband's and mine) as of tonight, and we have 24 cents
    > in 2 cent coins, and 19 cents in 1 cent coins.

The you musn't have been careful, because if you want to you can easily avoid
having more than 4 coins of 2 or 1 cent, you just need to use them when the price
is not round.

JL.

Also sprach [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) :

    >Desmond Coughlan <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Miguel Cruz <[email protected]> a écrit :
    >>> When I tried to make a fruit purchase in Spain that would have been about 3c, it
    >>> was rounded to zero.
    >>
    >> Hey, free fruit, cool !!
    >
    >Try to buy a single orange in southern Spain - they'll just look at you funny and
    >tell you to take it.
    >

When we lived in Portugal I used to feel really embarrassed at buying such small
quanitites of food. Sometimes the shopkeeper would look at me and say "is that all?"
--

Cliff Laine, Flat 798, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster remove any trace of rudeness
before you reply
__________________________________________________ ___
They create a desert and call it peace

Tacitus

"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...

    > Let me ask you this: Why shouldn't we have coins in values of 1/1000 Euro, 1/10000
    > Euro, etc.?

Because they would be of very low value. But if coins of 1 and 2 cents are of no
value, then we should have developed a currency whose smallest denomination WAS of
value. There's no point in dividing a euro into 100 parts if you aren't willing to
deal with amounts of less than 1/20 euro. Just assign the euro a value ten times
larger instead, so that even cents are very valuable. (But that actually wouldn't
work in practice, because the low value of small coins isn't what causes some people
to object to them--it's just that a lot of people have a psychological block that
prevents them from accepting tiny coins, especially unfamiliar tiny coins, no matter
how valuable they are.)