Mark Brader wrote:

    > But it should also be noted that most of the trains mentioned run on a
    > limited number of routes, so that even in most countries on the list,
    > the pass is still valid without supplement on most long-distance trains.

This may also be changing over time. In Italy, Eurostar is becoming an
ever greater percentage of the service, and on some routes non-Eurostar
trains are infrequent.

Barbara

Barbara Vaughan wrote:
    > Mark Brader wrote:

    > > But it should also be noted that most of the trains mentioned run on a
    > > limited number of routes, so that even in most countries on the list,
    > > the pass is still valid without supplement on most long-distance trains.

    > This may also be changing over time. In Italy, Eurostar is becoming an
    > ever greater percentage of the service, and on some routes non-Eurostar
    > trains are infrequent.

I think that it is usually possible to avoid using a train requiring a
supplement, by taking a slower train for the same (or similar) journey.
But in some cases (eg: Brussels to Paris), one is better off just paying
the supplement, as the alternatives are not very attractive.


--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?

On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:06:34 +0100, Barbara Vaughan
wrote:

    >The various national railroads show the prices of tickets within their
    >own country. For international tickets, I've heard that the Rick Steves
    >website has a summary of the most popular routes.

Unfortunately, Steves seems to get his point to point fares from
RailEurope so they are a bit inflated as well. But the upside is that
the stronger euro has made the inflated fares look closer to realistic
if you're lookign at a Steves book that's a year or so old (I haven't
checked the values on his web site recently).


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:34:42 +1030, Luke
wrote:

    >Okay, let me see if I've got this right:
    >* A supplement may be required on "expensive" services (eg express).
    >* A reservation may be required on popular services (eg at peak times)
    >but sometimes a reservation is free.

Reservations are never free, but on the expensive trains they are
frequently included in the fare; however, is you have a Eurailpass you
will have to payt extra for the reservation and the supplement.

Remember, reservations are only for seats and you can simply board
many trains and look for an empty seat (check the little tags to see
if they might be reserved by someone else).

For the most part we don't bother with seat reservations on regular
trains unless they look to be crowded and we would like to assure that
the three of us can sit together.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen wrote:

    > For the most part we don't bother with seat reservations on regular
    > trains unless they look to be crowded and we would like to assure that
    > the three of us can sit together.


five of us travelled together in Germany in 2000; we never got reservations,
even on ICE trains, and never had trouble finding seats. Watch the tags
on the seats, at least in Germany, they tell you what portion of the trip the
reservation goes to -from. If the place where the seat is reserved is beyond
where you are going, you can sit there!

Julie
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Traval Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Hatunen wrote:
    >
    > On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:06:34 +0100, Barbara Vaughan
    > wrote:
    >
    > >The various national railroads show the prices of tickets within their
    > >own country. For international tickets, I've heard that the Rick Steves
    > >website has a summary of the most popular routes.
    >
    > Unfortunately, Steves seems to get his point to point fares from
    > RailEurope so they are a bit inflated as well. But the upside is that
    > the stronger euro has made the inflated fares look closer to realistic
    > if you're lookign at a Steves book that's a year or so old (I haven't
    > checked the values on his web site recently).

I don't know; I checked some of his fares for Italian trips and found
them accurate. One was less than what trenitalia quoted, but maybe his
was quoting a lower class of service.

When I checked raileurope's fares against trenitalia, I found some that
were more than double what they cost in Italy. In this case, I compared
prices for specific scheduled trains. The most over-priced fares were
for the least expensive trains, because they charged the same price for
all classes of service. The Eurostar trains were "only" overpriced by
30%.

Barbara

On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:03:41 +0100, Barbara Vaughan
wrote:

    >Hatunen wrote:
    >>
    >> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:06:34 +0100, Barbara Vaughan
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >The various national railroads show the prices of tickets within their
    >> >own country. For international tickets, I've heard that the Rick Steves
    >> >website has a summary of the most popular routes.
    >>
    >> Unfortunately, Steves seems to get his point to point fares from
    >> RailEurope so they are a bit inflated as well. But the upside is that
    >> the stronger euro has made the inflated fares look closer to realistic
    >> if you're lookign at a Steves book that's a year or so old (I haven't
    >> checked the values on his web site recently).
    >I don't know; I checked some of his fares for Italian trips and found
    >them accurate. One was less than what trenitalia quoted, but maybe his
    >was quoting a lower class of service.
    >When I checked raileurope's fares against trenitalia, I found some that
    >were more than double what they cost in Italy. In this case, I compared
    >prices for specific scheduled trains. The most over-priced fares were
    >for the least expensive trains, because they charged the same price for
    >all classes of service. The Eurostar trains were "only" overpriced by
    >30%.

Interesting. Last time I analyzed that train map Steves uses to show
fares and travel times I got high fares, but that was when the euro
was less than US $0.90 (sigh...)


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Ulf Kutzner schrieb:
    >
    > Jdjuan6 schrieb:
    > >
    > > I'm travelling from Barcelona-Paris. Would it be cheaper to buy the
    > > point-to-point ticket with RailEurope or in Barcelona?
    > >
    > > I appreciate your comments/suggestions.
    >
    > Try http://www.renfe.es/viajes/precios_i...a.html#opcion1
    >
    > 118 EUR one way in tourist sleeper if bought in Barcelona.
    >
    > Discount for travelers under 26 or over 60.

Off-season fare are cheaper than that.

Regards, ULF

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Mark Brader:
    > > > Right, except that the bit where Barbara said "each country" is a bit
    > > > misleading. In my experience it's more typical for the Eurailpass to
    > > > be valid on all trains without a supplement -- except, of course, if
    > > > you want sleeping-car accommodation.
    > Ryan B.:
    > > Barbara is quite correct. In addition to your pass you will have to pay
a
    > > supplement on these trains:
    > >
    > > Eurostar Italia (ES)- Italy
    > > Artesia- France/Italy
    > > AVE, Talgo & Euromed- Spain
    > > Cisalpino- Switzerland/Italy
    > > Linx- Norway/Sweden
    > > Thalys-France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands
    > Well, that's certainly a longer list than I expected, and it shows how
    > the original concept of the Eurailpass has been eroded. I'm particularly
    > surprised to see the Talgo on there, because when I was last in Spain
    > in 1992, most of the long-distance trains were Talgos and my pass was
    > valid on them without supplement. Thanks for the information, Ryan.
    > But it should also be noted that most of the trains mentioned run on a
    > limited number of routes, so that even in most countries on the list,
    > the pass is still valid without supplement on most long-distance trains.
    > --
    > Mark Brader, Toronto | "Courtesy, hell. We're programmers not humans."
    > [email protected] | -- S. M. Ryan
    > My text in this article is in the public domain.


Yes, that's very true. You can easily travel throughout Europe avoiding
trains requiring a supplement to your pass. The only two I use are the
Thalys trains and the Eurostar Italia trains. Many people assume the TGV
trains require a supplement but this is not true. You are required to buy a
reservation but that is very cheap.

Ryan