English Language in Paris
Aug 7th 2007, 7:32 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
> >Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
> >Markku Gr�nroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
> >>
> >>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
> >>viestiss�:[email protected]...
[]
> >>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
> >>>
> >>But it is true.
> >
> >One study makes it true?
>
> one un referenced study.
>
> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
It was definitely on the BBC news recently, but it was a fun piece on
the whole. As you can imagine, 5 Live made a lot of it, for the laughs,
though they did have that more serious interview I mentioned. Markkku's
comprehension probably wouldn't have been up to that bit.
> >Taxi for Markkkuku.
>
> and stomach pump.
And a naked flame.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
> >Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
> >Markku Gr�nroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
> >>
> >>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
> >>viestiss�:[email protected]...
[]
> >>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
> >>>
> >>But it is true.
> >
> >One study makes it true?
>
> one un referenced study.
>
> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
It was definitely on the BBC news recently, but it was a fun piece on
the whole. As you can imagine, 5 Live made a lot of it, for the laughs,
though they did have that more serious interview I mentioned. Markkku's
comprehension probably wouldn't have been up to that bit.
> >Taxi for Markkkuku.
>
> and stomach pump.
And a naked flame.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
Aug 7th 2007, 7:35 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:42:33 -0700,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>
>Mike Collins wrote:
>> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>> (Germany, Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>> language too difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can
>> anyone share their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it
>> difficult? Could you still manage to order what you wanted in
>> restaurants? We'll take a trip to Paris regardless, I am just trying to
>> figure out how to prepare.
>
>A French-English phrase book? Whether or not you "know" the
>local language, it is only common courtesy to learn such
>essential terms as "please", "thank you", "excuse me" and
>"good morning (evening)". This holds doubly true in France,
>where until the middle of the last century (more or less)
>French, not English, was considered the "universal" language.
Above all, try to learn it from listening. Really concentrate on how
they pronounce it, and try to sing it back to them.
It does work.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>
>Mike Collins wrote:
>> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>> (Germany, Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>> language too difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can
>> anyone share their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it
>> difficult? Could you still manage to order what you wanted in
>> restaurants? We'll take a trip to Paris regardless, I am just trying to
>> figure out how to prepare.
>
>A French-English phrase book? Whether or not you "know" the
>local language, it is only common courtesy to learn such
>essential terms as "please", "thank you", "excuse me" and
>"good morning (evening)". This holds doubly true in France,
>where until the middle of the last century (more or less)
>French, not English, was considered the "universal" language.
Above all, try to learn it from listening. Really concentrate on how
they pronounce it, and try to sing it back to them.
It does work.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Aug 7th 2007, 7:36 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 20:32:56 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
>> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>
>> >Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
>> >Markku Gr�nroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
>> >>
>> >>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>> >>viestiss�:[email protected]...
>[]
>> >>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
>> >>>
>> >>But it is true.
>> >
>> >One study makes it true?
>>
>> one un referenced study.
>>
>> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
>
>It was definitely on the BBC news recently, but it was a fun piece on
>the whole. As you can imagine, 5 Live made a lot of it, for the laughs,
>though they did have that more serious interview I mentioned. Markkku's
>comprehension probably wouldn't have been up to that bit.
Like somebody else it is more than 50 years since I did GCE French at no time
was I down to only 7 French words.
>
>> >Taxi for Markkkuku.
>>
>> and stomach pump.
>
>And a naked flame.
Markkkuku's old naked flame?
--
Martin
chancellor (*)) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
>> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>
>> >Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
>> >Markku Gr�nroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
>> >>
>> >>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>> >>viestiss�:[email protected]...
>[]
>> >>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
>> >>>
>> >>But it is true.
>> >
>> >One study makes it true?
>>
>> one un referenced study.
>>
>> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
>
>It was definitely on the BBC news recently, but it was a fun piece on
>the whole. As you can imagine, 5 Live made a lot of it, for the laughs,
>though they did have that more serious interview I mentioned. Markkku's
>comprehension probably wouldn't have been up to that bit.
Like somebody else it is more than 50 years since I did GCE French at no time
was I down to only 7 French words.
>
>> >Taxi for Markkkuku.
>>
>> and stomach pump.
>
>And a naked flame.
Markkkuku's old naked flame?
--
Martin
Aug 7th 2007, 7:37 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:47:43 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:42:33 -0700,
>"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>Above all, try to learn it from listening. Really concentrate on how
>they pronounce it, and try to sing it back to them.
>
>It does work.
Only if you are a diva.
--
Martin
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:42:33 -0700,
>"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> has scripted:
>Above all, try to learn it from listening. Really concentrate on how
>they pronounce it, and try to sing it back to them.
>
>It does work.
Only if you are a diva.
--
Martin
Aug 7th 2007, 7:40 pm
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> SFAIK, the only way France may differ from the rest of
> Europe is that French people are more likely to allow their
> displeasure with rude Americans to be seen. (You think
> citizens of other countries like our linguistic arrogance
> any better?)
It's not linguistic arrogance- it's simply the way things turned out-
i.e. English dominating the world language scene, for the moment anyway.
Who knows what it will be in 300 years? If your average drunken Finn
meats a French speaker in, say, Ecuador, the language they'll most
likely use for conversation is English. Most foreign visitors to France
don't speak French any better than native English speakers do.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
[]
> SFAIK, the only way France may differ from the rest of
> Europe is that French people are more likely to allow their
> displeasure with rude Americans to be seen. (You think
> citizens of other countries like our linguistic arrogance
> any better?)
It's not linguistic arrogance- it's simply the way things turned out-
i.e. English dominating the world language scene, for the moment anyway.
Who knows what it will be in 300 years? If your average drunken Finn
meats a French speaker in, say, Ecuador, the language they'll most
likely use for conversation is English. Most foreign visitors to France
don't speak French any better than native English speakers do.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
Aug 7th 2007, 7:46 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 20:32:56 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> >> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
> >> >Markku Gr�nroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
> >> >>
> >> >>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
> >> >>viestiss�:[email protected]...
> >[]
> >> >>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
> >> >>>
> >> >>But it is true.
> >> >
> >> >One study makes it true?
> >>
> >> one un referenced study.
> >>
> >> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
> >
> >It was definitely on the BBC news recently, but it was a fun piece on
> >the whole. As you can imagine, 5 Live made a lot of it, for the laughs,
> >though they did have that more serious interview I mentioned. Markkku's
> >comprehension probably wouldn't have been up to that bit.
>
> Like somebody else it is more than 50 years since I did GCE French at no time
> was I down to only 7 French words.
The bit I heard actually showed, interestingly, that at first a
respondent would claim to have forgotten everything, but then a lot of
it would come back as the interview went further. One person was asked
how to ask someone's name in French, and claimed not to know, then
ventured ahead with the right answer, albeit using the informal address.
(Fine, I mostly practised with the other students when I took French!)
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 20:32:56 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> >> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
> >> >Markku Gr�nroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
> >> >>
> >> >>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
> >> >>viestiss�:[email protected]...
> >[]
> >> >>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
> >> >>>
> >> >>But it is true.
> >> >
> >> >One study makes it true?
> >>
> >> one un referenced study.
> >>
> >> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
> >
> >It was definitely on the BBC news recently, but it was a fun piece on
> >the whole. As you can imagine, 5 Live made a lot of it, for the laughs,
> >though they did have that more serious interview I mentioned. Markkku's
> >comprehension probably wouldn't have been up to that bit.
>
> Like somebody else it is more than 50 years since I did GCE French at no time
> was I down to only 7 French words.
The bit I heard actually showed, interestingly, that at first a
respondent would claim to have forgotten everything, but then a lot of
it would come back as the interview went further. One person was asked
how to ask someone's name in French, and claimed not to know, then
ventured ahead with the right answer, albeit using the informal address.
(Fine, I mostly practised with the other students when I took French!)
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007
Aug 7th 2007, 9:00 pm
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
lol
"Mike Collins" <[email protected]> a �crit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
>I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
>Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
>difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
>still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
>Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
"Mike Collins" <[email protected]> a �crit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
>I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
>Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
>difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
>still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
>Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
Aug 7th 2007, 9:00 pm
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: IF TOU NEED ANYTHING? ASK MARTIN
"Martin" <[email protected]> a �crit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
>>Markku Gr�nroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
>>
>>>
>>>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>>viestiss�:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> "Markku Gr�nroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected] ti.fi...
>>>>>
>>>>> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>>>> viestiss�:[email protected]...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> > news:[email protected]...
>>>>> >> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>>>>> > (Germany,
>>>>> >> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>>>>> >> language
>>>>> >> too
>>>>> >> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>>>>> >> share
>>>>> >> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>>>>> >> Could
>>>>> >> you
>>>>> >> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>>>>> >> trip
>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >> Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> > You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far more.
>>>>> >
>>>>> I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
>>>>> memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she
>>>>> studied/studies
>>>> at
>>>>> school. Not much for a vocabulary.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
>>>>
>>>But it is true.
>>
>>One study makes it true?
>
> one un referenced study.
>
> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
>
>>
>>Taxi for Markkkuku.
>
> and stomach pump.
> --
>
> Martin
>
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
>>Markku Gr�nroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
>>
>>>
>>>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>>viestiss�:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> "Markku Gr�nroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected] ti.fi...
>>>>>
>>>>> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>>>> viestiss�:[email protected]...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> > news:[email protected]...
>>>>> >> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>>>>> > (Germany,
>>>>> >> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>>>>> >> language
>>>>> >> too
>>>>> >> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>>>>> >> share
>>>>> >> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>>>>> >> Could
>>>>> >> you
>>>>> >> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>>>>> >> trip
>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >> Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> > You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far more.
>>>>> >
>>>>> I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
>>>>> memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she
>>>>> studied/studies
>>>> at
>>>>> school. Not much for a vocabulary.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
>>>>
>>>But it is true.
>>
>>One study makes it true?
>
> one un referenced study.
>
> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
>
>>
>>Taxi for Markkkuku.
>
> and stomach pump.
> --
>
> Martin
>
Aug 7th 2007, 9:02 pm
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
Free public translator rue Gerbillon in the middle of the wealthiest part of
Paris.
Have you heard of urban legends ?
"Mike Collins" <[email protected]> a �crit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
>I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
>Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
>difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
>still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
>Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
Paris.
Have you heard of urban legends ?
"Mike Collins" <[email protected]> a �crit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
>I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
>Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
>difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
>still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
>Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
Aug 7th 2007, 9:03 pm
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
vogtgamble, breathneck and matin/magda the perfect bunch !
"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> a �crit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
> Magda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:20:57 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig
>>Breathnach
>><[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
>>
>> ... "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ...
>> ... >I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>> (Germany,
>> ... >Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>> language too
>> ... >difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>> share
>> ... >their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>> Could you
>> ... >still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>> trip to
>> ... >Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>> ... >
>> ... It's not a problem provided
>> ... (1) you do not presume people can speak English, but ask first, and
>> ... (2) you observe the social protocols (la politesse) including
>> greeting
>> ... people like shop assistants and table servers.
>> ...
>> ... I suggest you learn a few phrases -- things like "bonjour
>> ... madame/monsieur", "parlez-vous anglais?", "s'il vous plait", "merci",
>> ... "au revoir".
>>
>>A little "excusez-moi" right before "parlez-vous anglais?" will be highly
>>appreciated.
>>
> Combining both my points: ask, and observe the social protocols.
>
> --
> PB
> The return address has been MUNGED
> My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> a �crit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
> Magda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:20:57 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig
>>Breathnach
>><[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
>>
>> ... "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ...
>> ... >I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>> (Germany,
>> ... >Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>> language too
>> ... >difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>> share
>> ... >their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>> Could you
>> ... >still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>> trip to
>> ... >Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>> ... >
>> ... It's not a problem provided
>> ... (1) you do not presume people can speak English, but ask first, and
>> ... (2) you observe the social protocols (la politesse) including
>> greeting
>> ... people like shop assistants and table servers.
>> ...
>> ... I suggest you learn a few phrases -- things like "bonjour
>> ... madame/monsieur", "parlez-vous anglais?", "s'il vous plait", "merci",
>> ... "au revoir".
>>
>>A little "excusez-moi" right before "parlez-vous anglais?" will be highly
>>appreciated.
>>
> Combining both my points: ask, and observe the social protocols.
>
> --
> PB
> The return address has been MUNGED
> My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
Aug 7th 2007, 9:05 pm
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
HOW SWEET THE DISNEY FRENCH PADRAIG CAN PRONOUNCE !!
Lol
"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> a �crit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
> Magda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:20:57 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig
>>Breathnach
>><[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
>>
>> ... "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ...
>> ... >I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>> (Germany,
>> ... >Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>> language too
>> ... >difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>> share
>> ... >their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>> Could you
>> ... >still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>> trip to
>> ... >Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>> ... >
>> ... It's not a problem provided
>> ... (1) you do not presume people can speak English, but ask first, and
>> ... (2) you observe the social protocols (la politesse) including
>> greeting
>> ... people like shop assistants and table servers.
>> ...
>> ... I suggest you learn a few phrases -- things like "bonjour
>> ... madame/monsieur", "parlez-vous anglais?", "s'il vous plait", "merci",
>> ... "au revoir".
>>
>>A little "excusez-moi" right before "parlez-vous anglais?" will be highly
>>appreciated.
>>
> Combining both my points: ask, and observe the social protocols.
>
> --
> PB
> The return address has been MUNGED
> My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
Lol
"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> a �crit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
> Magda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:20:57 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig
>>Breathnach
>><[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
>>
>> ... "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ...
>> ... >I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>> (Germany,
>> ... >Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>> language too
>> ... >difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>> share
>> ... >their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>> Could you
>> ... >still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>> trip to
>> ... >Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>> ... >
>> ... It's not a problem provided
>> ... (1) you do not presume people can speak English, but ask first, and
>> ... (2) you observe the social protocols (la politesse) including
>> greeting
>> ... people like shop assistants and table servers.
>> ...
>> ... I suggest you learn a few phrases -- things like "bonjour
>> ... madame/monsieur", "parlez-vous anglais?", "s'il vous plait", "merci",
>> ... "au revoir".
>>
>>A little "excusez-moi" right before "parlez-vous anglais?" will be highly
>>appreciated.
>>
> Combining both my points: ask, and observe the social protocols.
>
> --
> PB
> The return address has been MUNGED
> My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
Aug 7th 2007, 9:38 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
>> but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>
> they dont like it, but there you go. I think a lot speak more english
> than they let on. Others dont respond to poor french. But one copes!
A good number of French people know quite a bit of English, but generally
are reluctant to let you know that. Why? One might assume arrogance, or an
unwillingness to help etc., but I don't think that's it at all. It's
embarassment that it's not something they speak fluently. Just as someone in
the US might respond if they spoke a reasonable amount of French and they
come across someone who speaks primarily French and asks them for help. They
ask if you speak French, and you might be likely to say "a little" because
you're concerned it might not be enough to really help them, or they'll
think you're so clumsy with the language that you want to lower their
expectations.
I came across a guy at one of the rail stations, where I was ordering my
tickets in rather dreadful French, and asked if he spoke English. He said "a
very small amount" and yet had excellent command of the language. I told him
that he spoke exceptional English, and rather than being insulted (as some
might assume), it really seemed to make his day.
People are people. We carry all manner of insecurities that can cause us to
give off the wrong signals to people, and make people assume things that are
incorrect. Once you get past that, and thank people for their efforts and
let them know they've been very helpful, the world becomes a bit better
place.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>
> they dont like it, but there you go. I think a lot speak more english
> than they let on. Others dont respond to poor french. But one copes!
A good number of French people know quite a bit of English, but generally
are reluctant to let you know that. Why? One might assume arrogance, or an
unwillingness to help etc., but I don't think that's it at all. It's
embarassment that it's not something they speak fluently. Just as someone in
the US might respond if they spoke a reasonable amount of French and they
come across someone who speaks primarily French and asks them for help. They
ask if you speak French, and you might be likely to say "a little" because
you're concerned it might not be enough to really help them, or they'll
think you're so clumsy with the language that you want to lower their
expectations.
I came across a guy at one of the rail stations, where I was ordering my
tickets in rather dreadful French, and asked if he spoke English. He said "a
very small amount" and yet had excellent command of the language. I told him
that he spoke exceptional English, and rather than being insulted (as some
might assume), it really seemed to make his day.
People are people. We carry all manner of insecurities that can cause us to
give off the wrong signals to people, and make people assume things that are
incorrect. Once you get past that, and thank people for their efforts and
let them know they've been very helpful, the world becomes a bit better
place.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Aug 7th 2007, 9:45 pm
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
> Wow. Thank you. The quick response is most appreciated. I traveled to
> Montreal a few years ago and learned some of the simple hellos, thank
> yous, and goodbyes. I'll definitely get a phrasebook and do some
> refreshing.
You'll do fine. And if you have trouble sleeping on planes, that will be the
perfect time to go through the phrasebook. Just remember that, while in
English you're essentially nice to someone and show appreciation through the
tone of your voice, it's a bit more important to use the actual phrases in
France.
In the US, you could go into a deli and say-
"Hi, I'd like a ham & cheese sandwich with a coke."
No need to add anything at the end (in the way of a thank-you or even
please) if your tone of voice is pleasant and you smile. But in France,
you'd say-
"Bonjour, je voudrais un sandwich jambon si'l vous plait." Very very
important to add that "si'l vos plait" at the end (often abbreviated "svp"
in print).
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
> Montreal a few years ago and learned some of the simple hellos, thank
> yous, and goodbyes. I'll definitely get a phrasebook and do some
> refreshing.
You'll do fine. And if you have trouble sleeping on planes, that will be the
perfect time to go through the phrasebook. Just remember that, while in
English you're essentially nice to someone and show appreciation through the
tone of your voice, it's a bit more important to use the actual phrases in
France.
In the US, you could go into a deli and say-
"Hi, I'd like a ham & cheese sandwich with a coke."
No need to add anything at the end (in the way of a thank-you or even
please) if your tone of voice is pleasant and you smile. But in France,
you'd say-
"Bonjour, je voudrais un sandwich jambon si'l vous plait." Very very
important to add that "si'l vos plait" at the end (often abbreviated "svp"
in print).
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Aug 7th 2007, 9:47 pm
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
> A lot of the population will know a little English, but will not be
> able to converse in English, but would be able to give directions or
> tell you a price.
Well, sorta. Prices are an interesting one. Something about prices that
people just like to rattle them off so darned quickly (en Francaise) that
you can't follow. You live for the little LCD screen that tells you how much
you owe!
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
> able to converse in English, but would be able to give directions or
> tell you a price.
Well, sorta. Prices are an interesting one. Something about prices that
people just like to rattle them off so darned quickly (en Francaise) that
you can't follow. You live for the little LCD screen that tells you how much
you owe!
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Aug 7th 2007, 9:49 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: English Language in Paris
>> SFAIK, the only way France may differ from the rest of
>> Europe is that French people are more likely to allow their
>> displeasure with rude Americans to be seen. (You think
>> citizens of other countries like our linguistic arrogance
>> any better?)
>
> It's not linguistic arrogance- it's simply the way things turned out-
> i.e. English dominating the world language scene, for the moment anyway.
> Who knows what it will be in 300 years? If your average drunken Finn
> meats a French speaker in, say, Ecuador, the language they'll most
> likely use for conversation is English. Most foreign visitors to France
> don't speak French any better than native English speakers do.
And besides, any English-speaking visitors to France are to be at least
partly forgiven for an initial impression that English is widespread in
France, given how much of the music played everywhere is, in fact, English.
And what's their fascination with Phil Collins anyway???!!!
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>> Europe is that French people are more likely to allow their
>> displeasure with rude Americans to be seen. (You think
>> citizens of other countries like our linguistic arrogance
>> any better?)
>
> It's not linguistic arrogance- it's simply the way things turned out-
> i.e. English dominating the world language scene, for the moment anyway.
> Who knows what it will be in 300 years? If your average drunken Finn
> meats a French speaker in, say, Ecuador, the language they'll most
> likely use for conversation is English. Most foreign visitors to France
> don't speak French any better than native English speakers do.
And besides, any English-speaking visitors to France are to be at least
partly forgiven for an initial impression that English is widespread in
France, given how much of the music played everywhere is, in fact, English.
And what's their fascination with Phil Collins anyway???!!!
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA