English Language in Paris
 

I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.

Thanks,
Mike

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
(Germany,
> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
> Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>
>
You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.

But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far more.

Surreyman

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestissä:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
> (Germany,
>> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language
>> too
>> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could
>> you
>> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip
>> to
>> Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>>
>>
> You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.
>
> But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far more.
>
I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she studied/studies at
school. Not much for a vocabulary.

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"Mike Collins" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
>I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
>Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
>difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
>still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
>Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
> Thanks,
> Mike
There's no problem. I've spend much time in France and Paris without
knowledge of French. But try to learn a few word of courtesy like
"bonjour" -good day "merci"-thank you
Also try to keep a somewhat humble attitude, don't speak to anyone directly
in English but try to ask "parlais anglais ?" or "do you speak English"
Mostly the answer is "yes a little" and they've good knowledge of English.
If not you can be sure they're trying the best to help.
A small phrase-book could be to use for menus in restaurants although many
restaurants in tourist areas have English menus.
Don't expect so much help from the average street man in the rush hour as
they're probably to reach home as fast as possible.
Paris is a busy city but you'll find rest of France being more relaxed.

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ti.fi...
>
> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
> viestissÀ:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
> > (Germany,
> >> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language
> >> too
> >> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
> >> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could
> >> you
> >> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip
> >> to
> >> Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
> >>
> >>
> > You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.
> >
> > But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far more.
> >
> I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
> memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she studied/studies
at
> school. Not much for a vocabulary.
>

Sounds like total rubbish to me.

Surreyman

Re: English Language in Paris
 

a.spencer3 wrote on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:14:01 GMT:


as> "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
as> news:[email protected]...
??>> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few
??>> occasions
as> (Germany,
??>> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the
??>> local language too difficult, but I have heard France is
??>> quite different. Can anyone share their stories of not
??>> speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could
??>> you still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants?
??>> We'll take a trip to Paris regardless, I am just trying to
??>> figure out how to prepare.
??>>
as> You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.

as> But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far
as> more.

I can understand not knowing anything about a foreign language
if you suddenly have to go to a new country but I'd certainly
agree with you about learning a little if possible. Anyway, I
always found that getting some acquaintance with a new language
and local customs is part of the fun of preparing for a trip.
There are many small books available and I can't understand not
reading at least one. All the Dutch, Danish and Swedish that I
know was learned that way and being able to translate some
public notices was always useful.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestissä:[email protected]...
>
> "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected] ti.fi...
>>
>> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>> viestissä:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>> > (Germany,
>> >> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language
>> >> too
>> >> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>> >> share
>> >> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could
>> >> you
>> >> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>> >> trip
>> >> to
>> >> Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.
>> >
>> > But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far more.
>> >
>> I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
>> memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she studied/studies
> at
>> school. Not much for a vocabulary.
>>
>
> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
>
But it is true.

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
>Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
>difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
>still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
>Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>
It's not a problem provided
(1) you do not presume people can speak English, but ask first, and
(2) you observe the social protocols (la politesse) including greeting
people like shop assistants and table servers.

I suggest you learn a few phrases -- things like "bonjour
madame/monsieur", "parlez-vous anglais?", "s'il vous plait", "merci",
"au revoir".

When struggling to communicate (and it will happen) do not even think
of getting annoyed or frustrated. It's part of your holiday -- c'est
la vie. A moderate amount of self-deprecation goes a long way in
preserving your equanimity and in winning people over.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/

Re: English Language in Paris
 

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:20:57 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:
...
... >I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
... >Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
... >difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
... >their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
... >still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
... >Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
... >
... It's not a problem provided
... (1) you do not presume people can speak English, but ask first, and
... (2) you observe the social protocols (la politesse) including greeting
... people like shop assistants and table servers.
...
... I suggest you learn a few phrases -- things like "bonjour
... madame/monsieur", "parlez-vous anglais?", "s'il vous plait", "merci",
... "au revoir".

A little "excusez-moi" right before "parlez-vous anglais?" will be highly appreciated.

... When struggling to communicate (and it will happen) do not even think
... of getting annoyed or frustrated. It's part of your holiday -- c'est
... la vie. A moderate amount of self-deprecation goes a long way in
... preserving your equanimity and in winning people over.

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Following up to "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:

> but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?

they dont like it, but there you go. I think a lot speak more english
than they let on. Others dont respond to poor french. But one copes!
:-)
--
Mike
(remove clothing to email)

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Wow. Thank you. The quick response is most appreciated. I traveled to
Montreal a few years ago and learned some of the simple hellos, thank yous,
and goodbyes. I'll definitely get a phrasebook and do some refreshing.

"Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
>Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
>difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
>still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
>Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Am Tue, 7 Aug 2007 07:08:19 -0500 schrieb Mike Collins:

> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
> their stories of not speaking French in Paris?

I did remember scraping my bits of school-France together to ask these two
black guys in Paris in french the way to the river Seine.

They didn't have a clue about what I was on about. English worked better
tehn ;-)

> Could you
> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants?

Depends on the restaurant - in some posh restaurants they sometimes only
speak french (read: they don't *want* to understand you).

So it may help to know at least the names for food in french (or take a
little dictionary).

But in shops or places that are a bit more touristy you should get by with
your english.

Regards,

Frank

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Magda <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:20:57 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig Breathnach
><[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
>
> ... "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
> ... >I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
> ... >Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
> ... >difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
> ... >their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
> ... >still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
> ... >Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
> ... >
> ... It's not a problem provided
> ... (1) you do not presume people can speak English, but ask first, and
> ... (2) you observe the social protocols (la politesse) including greeting
> ... people like shop assistants and table servers.
> ...
> ... I suggest you learn a few phrases -- things like "bonjour
> ... madame/monsieur", "parlez-vous anglais?", "s'il vous plait", "merci",
> ... "au revoir".
>
>A little "excusez-moi" right before "parlez-vous anglais?" will be highly appreciated.
>
Combining both my points: ask, and observe the social protocols.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ti.fi...

> I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
> memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she studied/studies
> at school. Not much for a vocabulary.

Sounds like the usual BBC "let's trash the working class and their ability
to use education in a meaningful way" bollocks to me.

You have to be aware that these things aren't done to no purpose and the
Public School, Oxbridge educated, elitist shits who run the BBC have a
vested interest in making anyone not educated as they were feel inferior.

My personal experience is that kids who studied a foreign language at school
can't remember any of it at all, until you drop them in a French market
town, at which point they suddenly realise that 'it works, even though it
was something I did at school' and in less than a day are chattering happily
with the locals...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] i.fi...
>
> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
> viestissÀ:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected] ti.fi...
> >>
> >> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
> >> viestissÀ:[email protected]...
> >> >
> >> > "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > news:[email protected]...
> >> >> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
> >> > (Germany,
> >> >> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
language
> >> >> too
> >> >> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
> >> >> share
> >> >> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
Could
> >> >> you
> >> >> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
> >> >> trip
> >> >> to
> >> >> Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.
> >> >
> >> > But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far more.
> >> >
> >> I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
> >> memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she
studied/studies
> > at
> >> school. Not much for a vocabulary.
> >>
> >
> > Sounds like total rubbish to me.
> >
> But it is true.
>

No, it's rubbish.
Even those who didn't study French, for instance, at school could probably
trot out 7 words!
Any who did GCSE would remember far more.
I haven't learned any French for some 50 years and didn't get beyond 'O'
Level, but can still conduct basic conversations.
Apart from the ployglots (Dutch, Swiss etc.) the English are no worse or
better at languages than any other nation.
I'm certainly no genius, but I've always mugged up rather more than 7 words
for each new linguistic area I've visited.

Surreyman

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"James Silverton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:LBZti.8683$J13.8411@trnddc02...
> a.spencer3 wrote on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:14:01 GMT:
>
>
> as> "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> as> news:[email protected]...
> ??>> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few
> ??>> occasions
> as> (Germany,
> ??>> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the
> ??>> local language too difficult, but I have heard France is
> ??>> quite different. Can anyone share their stories of not
> ??>> speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could
> ??>> you still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants?
> ??>> We'll take a trip to Paris regardless, I am just trying to
> ??>> figure out how to prepare.
> ??>>
> as> You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.
>
> as> But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far
> as> more.
>
> I can understand not knowing anything about a foreign language
> if you suddenly have to go to a new country but I'd certainly
> agree with you about learning a little if possible. Anyway, I
> always found that getting some acquaintance with a new language
> and local customs is part of the fun of preparing for a trip.
> There are many small books available and I can't understand not
> reading at least one. All the Dutch, Danish and Swedish that I
> know was learned that way and being able to translate some
> public notices was always useful.
>

Absolutely.

Surreyman

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"The Reid" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Following up to "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
> >their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>
> they dont like it, but there you go. I think a lot speak more english
> than they let on. Others dont respond to poor french. But one copes!
> :-)

Yeh - Paris is a bit 'different'!

Surreyman

Re: English Language in Paris
 

On Aug 7, 8:08 am, "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?


Many younger people and many people in the tourism industry will speak
English well. Almost all large hotels will have an English speaker on
staff, and that person can arrange things for you, like restaurant
reservations or concert tickets.

A lot of the population will know a little English, but will not be
able to converse in English, but would be able to give directions or
tell you a price.

Some of the larger and more famous museums and historical sights will
have English language signs next to the paintings or exhibits. Many
of those which don't have English signs will have an English language
tour brochure or an audio guide - a CD walkman where you can type in
the number of a painting or exhibit and it will give you an English-
language explanation. Some museums and historical sights only offer
English-language guided tours once a day or a few times a week - you
should look into that in advance if you want to take such a tour.

The subway is color-coded and very easy to figure out.

Keep in mind that you can read place names and street names even if
they aren't in English - so it's a lot easier than say, parts of China
or Japan or the Middle East where signs in the local language are
completely incomprehensible to a non-speaker.

> Could you still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants?


The restaurants are very easy. If you're not familiar with French
cuisine, learn the words for different foods before you go - at least
know "beef", "chicken", "duck", "fish", etc, and familiarize yourself
with the names of common dishes. Many of the more expensive
restaurants have a fixed menu.

You should also learn a few basic phrases for taxis and stores - "how
much is", "I would like", "please", "thank you", "left", "right",
"stop here, please", "please take us to", and basic question phrases
like "where is the".

Re: English Language in Paris
 

On 7 août, 15:23, Frank Hucklenbroich <[email protected]> wrote:
> Am Tue, 7 Aug 2007 07:08:19 -0500 schrieb Mike Collins:
>
> > I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
> > Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
> > difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
> > their stories of not speaking French in Paris?
>
> I did remember scraping my bits of school-France together to ask these two
> black guys in Paris in french the way to the river Seine.
>
> They didn't have a clue about what I was on about. English worked better
> tehn ;-)
>
> > Could you
> > still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants?
>
> Depends on the restaurant - in some posh restaurants they sometimes only
> speak french (read: they don't *want* to understand you).

It actually depends on the reliance of the restaurant on tourists or
chance. It is not surprising that a restaurant, even higher class
restaurant, with mostly french patrons will not require english
fluency from it's hired waiters. I would say it is a good sign that
you are in a typically french restaurant (on the other hand you might
meet a waiter having spent a few years in UK or Ireland!)


> So it may help to know at least the names for food in french (or take a
> little dictionary).
>
> But in shops or places that are a bit more touristy you should get by with
> your english.
>
> Regards,
>
> Frank

Re: English Language in Paris
 

> Don't expect so much help from the average street man in the rush hour as
> they're probably to reach home as fast as possible.
> Paris is a busy city but you'll find rest of France being more relaxed.

Right.
And select your target among younger crowds or business looking types
which are more likely to speak english.

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestissä:[email protected]...
>
>
> No, it's rubbish.
> Even those who didn't study French, for instance, at school could probably
> trot out 7 words!
>
BBC realeased this piece of information.


> Any who did GCSE would remember far more.
> I haven't learned any French for some 50 years and didn't get beyond 'O'
> Level, but can still conduct basic conversations.
> Apart from the ployglots (Dutch, Swiss etc.) the English are no worse or
> better at languages than any other nation.
> I'm certainly no genius, but I've always mugged up rather more than 7
> words
> for each new linguistic area I've visited.
>
We are not talking about knowledge of an individual but an average of a set
of Britons.

Re: English Language in Paris
 

William Black <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected] ti.fi...
>
> > I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
> > memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she studied/studies
> > at school. Not much for a vocabulary.
>
> Sounds like the usual BBC "let's trash the working class and their ability
> to use education in a meaningful way" bollocks to me.

It wasn't. There was featured on quite a few news programmes, and with a
fair bit of analysis, where the point was actually made that the British
aren't particularly any better or worse than other people at speaking
foreign languages, and the quality of teaching isn't any worse. Just
that as English is so dominant, many people get little exposure to other
languages, or the opportunities to practise them.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: English Language in Paris
 

On Aug 7, 6:04 am, The Reid <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Others dont respond to poor french. But one copes!

I barely remember the French I learned in high school several decades
ago. Often, when I started a conversation in French, I would get a
response in English. This happened most frequently in areas
frequented by tourists (Île de France, Lyon, etc.). I guess my accent
was so bad that they decided English would be easier for both of us.

Re: English Language in Paris
 

"Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestissä:K%[email protected] unalahti.fi...
>
>>
> BBC realeased this piece of information.
>
I have a link to this BBC story below:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070803...s_070803183819


First we can see that we are not talking about a scientific survey but a
comprehensive poll (3000 people interviewed and questioned). A few
highlights of the compiled results about British tourists travelling in a
non English speaking country:

1. two percent of them can ask the way to toilet in the
main foreign language their learned at school
2. 40% of them know the local word for beer but
only 5% how to say "excuse me"
3. about 25% of those who have studied a foreign
language (mostly whether French or German)
have an active vocabulary of more than 10 words


Javelin thrower Steve Backley told once to media that it is sad that his
Finnish colleague Seppo Räty doesn't speak English. Räty responded that no
worries: Backley can always chat in Finnish with me.

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Mike Collins wrote:
> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
> (Germany, Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
> language too difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can
> anyone share their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it
> difficult? Could you still manage to order what you wanted in
> restaurants? We'll take a trip to Paris regardless, I am just trying to
> figure out how to prepare.

A French-English phrase book? Whether or not you "know" the
local language, it is only common courtesy to learn such
essential terms as "please", "thank you", "excuse me" and
"good morning (evening)". This holds doubly true in France,
where until the middle of the last century (more or less)
French, not English, was considered the "universal" language.

SFAIK, the only way France may differ from the rest of
Europe is that French people are more likely to allow their
displeasure with rude Americans to be seen. (You think
citizens of other countries like our linguistic arrogance
any better?)

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 07:17:19 -0700,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> has scripted:

>On Aug 7, 6:04 am, The Reid <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> Others dont respond to poor french. But one copes!
>
>I barely remember the French I learned in high school several decades
>ago. Often, when I started a conversation in French, I would get a
>response in English. This happened most frequently in areas
>frequented by tourists (Île de France, Lyon, etc.). I guess my accent
>was so bad that they decided English would be easier for both of us.

Even though my Italian is good, people still respond to me in English
sometimes, just because they don't want to seem ignorant.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:06:34 +0300,
Markku Grönroos <[email protected]> has scripted:

>
>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>viestissä:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>> No, it's rubbish.
>> Even those who didn't study French, for instance, at school could probably
>> trot out 7 words!
>>
>BBC realeased this piece of information.
>
>
>> Any who did GCSE would remember far more.
>> I haven't learned any French for some 50 years and didn't get beyond 'O'
>> Level, but can still conduct basic conversations.
>> Apart from the ployglots (Dutch, Swiss etc.) the English are no worse or
>> better at languages than any other nation.
>> I'm certainly no genius, but I've always mugged up rather more than 7
>> words
>> for each new linguistic area I've visited.
>>
>We are not talking about knowledge of an individual but an average of a set
>of Britons.

There is no average set of Britons. They are probably the most varied
group on earth.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
Markku Grönroos <[email protected]> has scripted:

>
>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>viestissä:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected] ti.fi...
>>>
>>> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>> viestissä:[email protected]...
>>> >
>>> > "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> > news:[email protected]...
>>> >> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>>> > (Germany,
>>> >> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language
>>> >> too
>>> >> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>>> >> share
>>> >> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could
>>> >> you
>>> >> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>>> >> trip
>>> >> to
>>> >> Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.
>>> >
>>> > But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far more.
>>> >
>>> I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
>>> memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she studied/studies
>> at
>>> school. Not much for a vocabulary.
>>>
>>
>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
>>
>But it is true.

One study makes it true?

Taxi for Markkkuku.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:51:27 GMT,
"William Black" <[email protected]> has scripted:

>
>"Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected] hti.fi...
>
>> I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
>> memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she studied/studies
>> at school. Not much for a vocabulary.
>
>Sounds like the usual BBC "let's trash the working class and their ability
>to use education in a meaningful way" bollocks to me.
>
>You have to be aware that these things aren't done to no purpose and the
>Public School, Oxbridge educated, elitist shits who run the BBC have a
>vested interest in making anyone not educated as they were feel inferior.

C'mon, let it out!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Re: English Language in Paris
 

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
>Markku Grönroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>>
>>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>viestissä:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected] ti.fi...
>>>>
>>>> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>>> viestissä:[email protected]...
>>>> >
>>>> > "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> > news:[email protected]...
>>>> >> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>>>> > (Germany,
>>>> >> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language
>>>> >> too
>>>> >> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>>>> >> share
>>>> >> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could
>>>> >> you
>>>> >> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>>>> >> trip
>>>> >> to
>>>> >> Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> > You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.
>>>> >
>>>> > But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far more.
>>>> >
>>>> I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
>>>> memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she studied/studies
>>> at
>>>> school. Not much for a vocabulary.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
>>>
>>But it is true.
>
>One study makes it true?

one un referenced study.

I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.

>
>Taxi for Markkkuku.

and stomach pump.
--

Martin

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
> >Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
> >Markku Grönroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
> >>
> >>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
> >>viestissä:[email protected]...
[]
> >>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
> >>>
> >>But it is true.
> >
> >One study makes it true?
>
> one un referenced study.
>
> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.

It was definitely on the BBC news recently, but it was a fun piece on
the whole. As you can imagine, 5 Live made a lot of it, for the laughs,
though they did have that more serious interview I mentioned. Markkku's
comprehension probably wouldn't have been up to that bit.

> >Taxi for Markkkuku.
>
> and stomach pump.

And a naked flame.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:42:33 -0700,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> has scripted:

>
>
>Mike Collins wrote:
>> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>> (Germany, Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>> language too difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can
>> anyone share their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it
>> difficult? Could you still manage to order what you wanted in
>> restaurants? We'll take a trip to Paris regardless, I am just trying to
>> figure out how to prepare.
>
>A French-English phrase book? Whether or not you "know" the
>local language, it is only common courtesy to learn such
>essential terms as "please", "thank you", "excuse me" and
>"good morning (evening)". This holds doubly true in France,
>where until the middle of the last century (more or less)
>French, not English, was considered the "universal" language.

Above all, try to learn it from listening. Really concentrate on how
they pronounce it, and try to sing it back to them.

It does work.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Re: English Language in Paris
 

On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 20:32:56 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
>> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>
>> >Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
>> >Markku Grönroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
>> >>
>> >>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>> >>viestissä:[email protected]...
>[]
>> >>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
>> >>>
>> >>But it is true.
>> >
>> >One study makes it true?
>>
>> one un referenced study.
>>
>> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
>
>It was definitely on the BBC news recently, but it was a fun piece on
>the whole. As you can imagine, 5 Live made a lot of it, for the laughs,
>though they did have that more serious interview I mentioned. Markkku's
>comprehension probably wouldn't have been up to that bit.

Like somebody else it is more than 50 years since I did GCE French at no time
was I down to only 7 French words.

>
>> >Taxi for Markkkuku.
>>
>> and stomach pump.
>
>And a naked flame.

Markkkuku's old naked flame?
--

Martin

Re: English Language in Paris
 

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:47:43 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:42:33 -0700,
>"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> has scripted:

>Above all, try to learn it from listening. Really concentrate on how
>they pronounce it, and try to sing it back to them.
>
>It does work.

Only if you are a diva.
--

Martin

Re: English Language in Paris
 

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:

[]
> SFAIK, the only way France may differ from the rest of
> Europe is that French people are more likely to allow their
> displeasure with rude Americans to be seen. (You think
> citizens of other countries like our linguistic arrogance
> any better?)

It's not linguistic arrogance- it's simply the way things turned out-
i.e. English dominating the world language scene, for the moment anyway.
Who knows what it will be in 300 years? If your average drunken Finn
meats a French speaker in, say, Ecuador, the language they'll most
likely use for conversation is English. Most foreign visitors to France
don't speak French any better than native English speakers do.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 20:32:56 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> >> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
> >> >Markku Grönroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
> >> >>
> >> >>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
> >> >>viestissä:[email protected]...
> >[]
> >> >>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
> >> >>>
> >> >>But it is true.
> >> >
> >> >One study makes it true?
> >>
> >> one un referenced study.
> >>
> >> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
> >
> >It was definitely on the BBC news recently, but it was a fun piece on
> >the whole. As you can imagine, 5 Live made a lot of it, for the laughs,
> >though they did have that more serious interview I mentioned. Markkku's
> >comprehension probably wouldn't have been up to that bit.
>
> Like somebody else it is more than 50 years since I did GCE French at no time
> was I down to only 7 French words.

The bit I heard actually showed, interestingly, that at first a
respondent would claim to have forgotten everything, but then a lot of
it would come back as the interview went further. One person was asked
how to ask someone's name in French, and claimed not to know, then
ventured ahead with the right answer, albeit using the informal address.
(Fine, I mostly practised with the other students when I took French!)

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: English Language in Paris
 

lol

"Mike Collins" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
>I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
>Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
>difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
>still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
>Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Re: IF TOU NEED ANYTHING? ASK MARTIN
 

"Martin" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:15:57 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:33:04 +0300,
>>Markku Grönroos <[email protected]> has scripted:
>>
>>>
>>>"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>>viestissä:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> "Markku Grönroos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected] ti.fi...
>>>>>
>>>>> "a.spencer3" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
>>>>> viestissä:[email protected]...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> > news:[email protected]...
>>>>> >> I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>>>>> > (Germany,
>>>>> >> Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>>>>> >> language
>>>>> >> too
>>>>> >> difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>>>>> >> share
>>>>> >> their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>>>>> >> Could
>>>>> >> you
>>>>> >> still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>>>>> >> trip
>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >> Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> > You'll survive anywhere in the world without English.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But a few days learning basics helps you to enjoy far, far more.
>>>>> >
>>>>> I recent study ordered by BBC knows to tell that in average a Brit can
>>>>> memorize seven (7) words of that foreign language he/she
>>>>> studied/studies
>>>> at
>>>>> school. Not much for a vocabulary.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like total rubbish to me.
>>>>
>>>But it is true.
>>
>>One study makes it true?
>
> one un referenced study.
>
> I can't find any reference to such a study on the BBC web site.
>
>>
>>Taxi for Markkkuku.
>
> and stomach pump.
> --
>
> Martin
>

Re: English Language in Paris
 

Free public translator rue Gerbillon in the middle of the wealthiest part of
Paris.
Have you heard of urban legends ?

"Mike Collins" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
>I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions (Germany,
>Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local language too
>difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone share
>their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult? Could you
>still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a trip to
>Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Re: English Language in Paris
 

vogtgamble, breathneck and matin/magda the perfect bunch !

"Padraig Breathnach" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]...
> Magda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:20:57 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, Padraig
>>Breathnach
>><[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:
>>
>> ... "Mike Collins" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ...
>> ... >I have traveled to non-English-speaking Europe on a few occasions
>> (Germany,
>> ... >Spain, the Netherlands) and never found not knowing the local
>> language too
>> ... >difficult, but I have heard France is quite different. Can anyone
>> share
>> ... >their stories of not speaking French in Paris? Was it difficult?
>> Could you
>> ... >still manage to order what you wanted in restaurants? We'll take a
>> trip to
>> ... >Paris regardless, I am just trying to figure out how to prepare.
>> ... >
>> ... It's not a problem provided
>> ... (1) you do not presume people can speak English, but ask first, and
>> ... (2) you observe the social protocols (la politesse) including
>> greeting
>> ... people like shop assistants and table servers.
>> ...
>> ... I suggest you learn a few phrases -- things like "bonjour
>> ... madame/monsieur", "parlez-vous anglais?", "s'il vous plait", "merci",
>> ... "au revoir".
>>
>>A little "excusez-moi" right before "parlez-vous anglais?" will be highly
>>appreciated.
>>
> Combining both my points: ask, and observe the social protocols.
>
> --
> PB
> The return address has been MUNGED
> My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/