B Vaughan

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:25:17 +0000, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to B Vaughan
    >>>motorway=autostrada, UK/Italian
    >>In Italy, the autostrada is a particular type of motorway on which you
    >>pay tolls and which is operated by a semi-independent organization.
    >We only have one of them, the M6 toll although other Mways are
    >maintained by private companies.

Do you mean you only have one motorway on which you pay tolls? How do
the private operators of the others make their money?

    >>If you don't pay tolls, and it's limited access, it's called a
    >>"superstrada". I think the English motorway would be better translated
    >>as "superstrada", rather than autostrada.
    >By limited access, you mean certain types of vehicle not allowed?

No, I mean that you can only enter at a limited number of
interchanges. That's what a motorway is, isn't it?

If all motorways have tolls, then maybe autostrada was the correct
translation after all.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

fisherofsouls

Alan S wrote:
    > <SNIP>
    > as I drove around Italy I saw all those multi story buildings,
    > with nothing but quietly rusting girders above the third floor and
    > started to wonder.

I seem to remember that this is a tax dodge - something about not
having to pay the full tax bill until a building is "completed".

Certainly, when I lived in Sardinia in the mid-70s there were scores of
houses with the downstairs occupied and the upper stories unfinished...

Nick

Frank F. Matthews

B Vaughan wrote:

    > On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:13:07 +0000, The Reids
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Following up to B Vaughan
    >>>Was it a motorway or the autostrada?
    >>motorway=autostrada, UK/Italian
    >
    >
    > In Italy, the autostrada is a particular type of motorway on which you
    > pay tolls and which is operated by a semi-independent organization. If
    > you don't pay tolls, and it's limited access, it's called a
    > "superstrada". I think the English motorway would be better translated
    > as "superstrada", rather than autostrada.
    >
    > In the case in question, the road was neither. It was a normal
    > provincial highway, probably with one lane in each direction and no
    > center division.
    >


Thanks Barbara. I never could get a difference between the Florence --
Sienna road (Superstrada) and the Milan -- Bologna one (Autostrada).

Since you might know, what are they doing to the M-B Autostrada? There
is clearly construction going on all along it but I was having trouble
figuring it out. My guess was a high speed rail link but there wasn't
enough done to be clear.

BTW your part of Italy is fascinating. I got a little time to visit
Urbino and liked traveling thru there. I'll look forward to going back
and spending more time.

Luca Logi

Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Since you might know, what are they doing to the M-B Autostrada? There
    > is clearly construction going on all along it but I was having trouble
    > figuring it out. My guess was a high speed rail link but there wasn't
    > enough done to be clear.

There is a high speed rail line being built parallel to the
Milano-Bologna autostrada. Another line is being built between Bologna
and Florence, but this follows a completely different itinerary (mainly
in gallery) and so it is not close the autostrada. The autostrada
construction sites between Bologna and Florence are rebuilding the
highway on a straighter and faster itinerary.

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)

B Vaughan

On 23 Mar 2005 07:35:35 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

    >Alan S wrote:
    >> <SNIP>
    >> as I drove around Italy I saw all those multi story buildings,
    >> with nothing but quietly rusting girders above the third floor and
    >> started to wonder.
    >I seem to remember that this is a tax dodge - something about not
    >having to pay the full tax bill until a building is "completed".

I never heard of this, but it would be difficult with the present law.
At the moment, when you get a building permit, you have three years
(less for minor work to an existing property) to finish the work and
get it certified habitable (or the equivalent for a place of
business). The process includes a requirement that you prove you've
reported any change in the value of the property to the tax
authorities. If the work isn't finished in that time, you have to
start the process all over again.

My husband is an engineer, who works a lot with construction clients.
I've never heard of a client who pressed to have the work delayed;
quite the contrary. I'm pretty sure if it would avoid taxes, a lot of
people would try to slow down completion.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

B Vaughan

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:54:08 +0100, [email protected] (Luca Logi) wrote:

    >Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Since you might know, what are they doing to the M-B Autostrada? There
    >> is clearly construction going on all along it but I was having trouble
    >> figuring it out. My guess was a high speed rail link but there wasn't
    >> enough done to be clear.
    >There is a high speed rail line being built parallel to the
    >Milano-Bologna autostrada. Another line is being built between Bologna
    >and Florence, but this follows a completely different itinerary (mainly
    >in gallery) and so it is not close the autostrada. The autostrada
    >construction sites between Bologna and Florence are rebuilding the
    >highway on a straighter and faster itinerary.

I'm really glad of that; it's my least favorite route to drive. I once
drove along that route in heavy rain, with big trucks all around me,
and it wasn't very much fun.

--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Martin D . Pay

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:50:21 +0100, B Vaughan<[email protected]>
mangled uncounted electrons thus:

    >On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:25:17 +0000, The Reids
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Following up to B Vaughan
    >>>>motorway=autostrada, UK/Italian
    >>>In Italy, the autostrada is a particular type of motorway on which you
    >>>pay tolls and which is operated by a semi-independent organization.
    >>We only have one of them, the M6 toll although other Mways are
    >>maintained by private companies.
    >Do you mean you only have one motorway on which you pay tolls? How do
    >the private operators of the others make their money?

All the other motorways (along with about 95% of all other
highways) belong to the government; there are no tolls. The new
motorway with tolls and operated by a private company is an
experiment (so they say)...

The UK government has plenty of other ways of fleecing the
motorist in order to pay for its road construction and
maintenance program... :(

    >>>If you don't pay tolls, and it's limited access, it's called a
    >>>"superstrada". I think the English motorway would be better translated
    >>>as "superstrada", rather than autostrada.
    >>By limited access, you mean certain types of vehicle not allowed?
    >No, I mean that you can only enter at a limited number of
    >interchanges. That's what a motorway is, isn't it?

That's certainly a workable definition in the UK...

Martin D. Pay
I need a .sig generator or something...

Alan Harrison

"B Vaughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:25:17 +0000, The Reids
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Following up to B Vaughan
    >>>>motorway=autostrada, UK/Italian
    >>>In Italy, the autostrada is a particular type of motorway on which you
    >>>pay tolls and which is operated by a semi-independent organization.
    >>We only have one of them, the M6 toll although other Mways are
    >>maintained by private companies.
    > Do you mean you only have one motorway on which you pay tolls? How do
    > the private operators of the others make their money?

Maintenance is on contract with the transport ministry. There is just one
short stretch of toll motorway in Britain (apart from a tiny number of
bridges). I'll probably be driving along it tomorrow as I go to see my folks
for Easter. The M6 toll motorway bypasses the busy section of the free M6
through Birmingham. Toll for cars is £3 if you go through either of the
principal tollbooths, otherwise £2, with lower rates at night (from 11
p.m.).
    >>>If you don't pay tolls, and it's limited access, it's called a
    >>>"superstrada". I think the English motorway would be better translated
    >>>as "superstrada", rather than autostrada.
    >>By limited access, you mean certain types of vehicle not allowed?
    > No, I mean that you can only enter at a limited number of
    > interchanges. That's what a motorway is, isn't it?

In Britain, certain types of vehicles are excluded - e.g. mopeds with
engines smaller than 50 c.c., agricultural vehicles - as are learner
drivers.

Alan Harrison

J Gillen

Barbara,
Are you brave enough to drive in Roma ,when you go there?
If so..your'e pretty brave!(s)
Bit different from Umbria.
Judy
"B Vaughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On 23 Mar 2005 07:35:35 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
    > >Alan S wrote:
    > >> <SNIP>
    > >> as I drove around Italy I saw all those multi story buildings,
    > >> with nothing but quietly rusting girders above the third floor and
    > >> started to wonder.
    > >
    > >I seem to remember that this is a tax dodge - something about not
    > >having to pay the full tax bill until a building is "completed".
    > I never heard of this, but it would be difficult with the present law.
    > At the moment, when you get a building permit, you have three years
    > (less for minor work to an existing property) to finish the work and
    > get it certified habitable (or the equivalent for a place of
    > business). The process includes a requirement that you prove you've
    > reported any change in the value of the property to the tax
    > authorities. If the work isn't finished in that time, you have to
    > start the process all over again.
    > My husband is an engineer, who works a lot with construction clients.
    > I've never heard of a client who pressed to have the work delayed;
    > quite the contrary. I'm pretty sure if it would avoid taxes, a lot of
    > people would try to slow down completion.
    > --
    > Barbara Vaughan
    > My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot
it
    > I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

The Reids

Following up to B Vaughan

    >>We only have one of them, the M6 toll although other Mways are
    >>maintained by private companies.
    >Do you mean you only have one motorway on which you pay tolls? How do
    >the private operators of the others make their money?

There is only one toll motorway, a recent addition avoiding a
congested area. There are a few bridge/tunnel tolls. Other roads
maintained privately are funded by a fee from the government. A
profit is made same way as in other maintenance work.

    >>>If you don't pay tolls, and it's limited access, it's called a
    >>>"superstrada". I think the English motorway would be better translated
    >>>as "superstrada", rather than autostrada.
    >>By limited access, you mean certain types of vehicle not allowed?
    >No, I mean that you can only enter at a limited number of
    >interchanges. That's what a motorway is, isn't it?

In UK its a road with high spec long exit/entrance slips, hard
shoulders for breakdowns, no learners and certain slow vehicles
not allowed.

    >If all motorways have tolls, then maybe autostrada was the correct
    >translation after all.

--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap