S Viemeister

B Vaughan wrote:
    >
    > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 18:30:24 +0100, Giovanni Drogo
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Dr. George O. Bizzigotti wrote:
    > >
    > >> I like the Italian national anthem, or at least the instrumental
    > >> versions that are typically played at sporting events.
    > >
    > >I don't have really a "musical ear", but to me the music of the Inno di
    > >Mameli sounds quite bad (particularly the zum-pa-pa zum-pa-pa).
    > >Sometimes they play better "arrangements" (the one at the Olympics was
    > >acceptable). But I'd like much more the Va Pensiero, or the European
    > >Union Anthem. Even "God sHave the Queen :-)" would be better.
    >
    > God save the Queen is pathetic. Worse than the Star-Spangled Banner.
    >
The tune doesn't bother me - it's the verse about crushing rebellious Scots
- THAT bothers me.

Poldy

In article <[email protected]>,
B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:33:43 GMT, "tile" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >The official motto of Italy used to be
    > >
    > >viva Franza
    > >Viva Spagna
    > >Viva tutti
    > >purche' se magna
    >
    > That's my favorite so far.

Long live France
Long live Spain
Long live all
Because they eat themselves?

Tile

wrong translation

...

as long as we have to eat....
"poldy" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:
    >> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:33:43 GMT, "tile" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >The official motto of Italy used to be
    >> >
    >> >viva Franza
    >> >Viva Spagna
    >> >Viva tutti
    >> >purche' se magna
    >> That's my favorite so far.
    > Long live France
    > Long live Spain
    > Long live all
    > Because they eat themselves?

Tile

It is hard to find somebody in Italy who knows
about the Batlle of legnano..
about Francesco Ferrucci ( famous for the words

vile .. tu uccidi un uomo morto.. )
and who Giovambattista Perasso called Balilla was..

By the way. I guess that all people that were born before the second world
war still have a photo with their Balilla uniform..
and their wooden Moschetto gun with bayonet..

the more people I meet.. the more I see that all people were involved in
the Fascism regime.. and supported it.
Those who did not had to escape.. ( my grandfather brother had to emigrate
to France as he was socialist.. while my grandfather was Partito Popolare..
a kind of catholic party.. but he had no problem as his wife had 10 children
and had been decorated accordingly.. the fascist regime gave medals to
families that had a lot of children..
By the way. the fascist regime invented the pension scheme and medical care
for everybody..
and made .. law of protection of women and children.. forbidding that women
and children could work at night or in dangerous activities )
"Giovanni" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]...
    >> Poor old
    >> Scipio surely spent a lot more time in a helmet than Cicero.
    > Yes, but maybe Cicero's helmet is better for today Italians ;-)
    > Another mistake is:
    > "stringiamci a coorte"
    > meaning "let us gather in legions", "let's go and fight"
    > many say:
    > "stringiamci a corte"
    > meaning "let us stay in the courtyard", "escape and not fight", "follow
    > the
    > winner"
    > ;-)
    >> "Bohh!". So I looked them up on the internet.
    > Here is also a traslation:
    > http://members.aol.com/motley1969/Ca...odimameli.html
    > I also like this part, a brief history of Italy:
    > From the Alps to Sicily,
    > Everywhere it is Legnano;
    > Every man has the heart
    > and hand of Ferruccio.
    > The children of Italy
    > Are all called Balilla;
    > Every trumpet blast
    > Sounds the (Sicilian) Vespers.
    > So one learns what is Legnano, who are Ferruccio and Balilla, and so on
    > ;-)
    > ciao
    >

B Vaughan

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:31:32 -0800, poldy <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:
    >> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:33:43 GMT, "tile" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >The official motto of Italy used to be
    >> >
    >> >viva Franza
    >> >Viva Spagna
    >> >Viva tutti
    >> >purche' se magna
    >>
    >> That's my favorite so far.
    >Long live France
    >Long live Spain
    >Long live all
    >Because they eat themselves?

Long live France
Long live Spain
Long live everybody
As long as one can eat.

--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

The Reid

Following up to B Vaughan

    >God save the Queen is pathetic.

I've never heard anybody have a good word for it, probably a good
thing, don't want to encourage idiotic patriotism.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reid

Following up to S Viemeister

    >The tune doesn't bother me - it's the verse about crushing rebellious Scots
    >- THAT bothers me.

yep, should be more about crushing the welsh too :-)
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Giovanni Drogo

From: Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.travel.europe
Subject: Re: Does Italy Have A Country Motto?
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:29:31 +0100
Organization: Istituto Nazionale di Astrofisica
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <[email protected] gr.vans.vg>
References: <[email protected] .com>
<[email protected]> <XP%[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: poseidon.lambrate.inaf.it
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-40151024-1768610866-1141205371=:20252"
X-Trace: muffin.area.ba.cnr.it 1141205371 17135 155.253.16.88 (1 Mar 2006 09:29:31 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:29:31 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Path: news.travelera.com!news1.newsguy.com!lois.pathlink .com!rex!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!news.mail gate.org!surfnet.nl!surfnet.nl!kanaga.switch.ch!sw itch.ch!news.rediris.es!newsserver.news.garr.it!mu ffin.area.ba.cnr.it!not-for-mail
Xref: news.travelera.com rec.travel.europe:793398

This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

---40151024-1768610866-1141205371=:20252
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, B Vaughan wrote:

    > That's my favorite so far.

If you want something classical, and non derogatory, and geographically
appropriate, you can always resort to Petrarca's verse :

" il bel paese ch'Appennin parte e 'l mar circonda e l'Alpe "

(Canzoniere, CXLVI, 13-14)

Translation: "the beautiful country divided by the Appennines and
surrounded by the sea and by the Alps"

Note that the spelling is a bit archaic (specially the use of the
apostrophes), it was quite funny to hear Marco Paolini (in one of his
plays, Bestiario Italiano) trying to pronounce them in a harsh way.


If you want another classical, shorter quote, you can use Dante's verse

" il bel paese la' dove 'l si' suona "
" il bel paese l� dove 'l s� suona "

(Inferno XXXIII, 79-80)

Translation: "the beautiful country where 'yes' resounds" (with
reference to the distinction between French, Provencal and Italian
languages based on the word for "yes"). The second line writes it with
accents, use of a prime of apostrophe is acceptable

If you want a classical *and* derogatory quote (we can do it better by
ourselves :-) ), there is another Dante's verse :

"Ahi serva Italia, di dolore ostello, / nave sanza nocchiere in gran
tempesta, / non donna di province, ma bordello!"

Purgatorio, VI, 76-78

Translation: "Ah, slave Italy, hostel of sorrows / ship without
steersman in a great storm / not lady of provinces, but brothel!"

Usually one quotes just verses 76 and 78 omitting the central one,


Or in the same spirit (compare the rest of Purgatorio VI), my favourite
(heard by Marco Paolini, although he was quoting somebody's else)

"I corvi di Orvieto / hanno un sogno segreto / di mettere a morte /
tutti i corvi di Orte"

Translation: "Orvieto's ravens / have a secret dream / to put to death /
all Orte's ravens"

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] is a newsreading account used by more persons to
avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected.
Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.
---40151024-1768610866-1141205371=:20252--

Martin

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:41:28 +0000, The Reid
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to S Viemeister
    >>The tune doesn't bother me - it's the verse about crushing rebellious Scots
    >>- THAT bothers me.
    >yep, should be more about crushing the welsh too :-)

They should be made independent countries and recall their politicians
from Westminster, once the oil is finished :-)
--
Martin

Martin

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:02:17 -0500, S Viemeister
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >> God save the Queen is pathetic. Worse than the Star-Spangled Banner.
    >>
    >The tune doesn't bother me - it's the verse about crushing rebellious Scots
    >- THAT bothers me.

Noticed how Tony Blair always joins in on that line?
--
Martin

Tile

Giovanni Drogo wrote:
    > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, B Vaughan wrote:
    >> That's my favorite so far.
    > If you want something classical, and non derogatory, and
    > geographically appropriate, you can always resort to Petrarca's verse
    > :
    > " il bel paese ch'Appennin parte e 'l mar circonda e l'Alpe "
    > (Canzoniere, CXLVI, 13-14)
    > Translation: "the beautiful country divided by the Appennines and
    > surrounded by the sea and by the Alps"
    > Note that the spelling is a bit archaic (specially the use of the
    > apostrophes), it was quite funny to hear Marco Paolini (in one of his
    > plays, Bestiario Italiano) trying to pronounce them in a harsh way.
    > If you want another classical, shorter quote, you can use Dante's
    > verse
    > " il bel paese la' dove 'l si' suona "
    > " il bel paese l� dove 'l s� suona "
    > (Inferno XXXIII, 79-80)
    > Translation: "the beautiful country where 'yes' resounds" (with
    > reference to the distinction between French, Provencal and Italian
    > languages based on the word for "yes"). The second line writes it with
    > accents, use of a prime of apostrophe is acceptable
    > If you want a classical *and* derogatory quote (we can do it better by
    > ourselves :-) ), there is another Dante's verse :
    > "Ahi serva Italia, di dolore ostello, / nave sanza nocchiere in gran
    > tempesta, / non donna di province, ma bordello!"
    > Purgatorio, VI, 76-78
    > Translation: "Ah, slave Italy, hostel of sorrows / ship without
    > steersman in a great storm / not lady of provinces, but brothel!"
    > Usually one quotes just verses 76 and 78 omitting the central one,
    > Or in the same spirit (compare the rest of Purgatorio VI), my
    > favourite (heard by Marco Paolini, although he was quoting somebody's
    > else)
    > "I corvi di Orvieto / hanno un sogno segreto / di mettere a morte /
    > tutti i corvi di Orte"
    > Translation: "Orvieto's ravens / have a secret dream / to put to
    > death / all Orte's ravens"

Bella Italia..
amate sponde..

who wrote it ??

I do not remember....

I found a person who really studied Italian litterature..
( I knew by heart two canti of Divina Commedia..
but I met a man who knew ALL of it by heart.. )

I would also suggest..
Arma virumque cano
Troiaeque primus ab ore..

S Viemeister

The Reid wrote:
    >
    > Following up to S Viemeister
    >
    > >The tune doesn't bother me - it's the verse about crushing rebellious Scots
    > >- THAT bothers me.
    >
    > yep, should be more about crushing the welsh too :-)
Pfft.
With a name like Reid, you might be on the list for crushing.

S Viemeister

Martin wrote:
    >
    > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:02:17 -0500, S Viemeister
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> God save the Queen is pathetic. Worse than the Star-Spangled Banner.
    > >>
    > >The tune doesn't bother me - it's the verse about crushing rebellious Scots
    > >- THAT bothers me.
    >
    > Noticed how Tony Blair always joins in on that line?
    >
He and Gordon do seem to have their problems......

B Vaughan

On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:29:31 +0100, Giovanni Drogo
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Or in the same spirit (compare the rest of Purgatorio VI), my favourite
    >(heard by Marco Paolini, although he was quoting somebody's else)
    >"I corvi di Orvieto / hanno un sogno segreto / di mettere a morte /
    >tutti i corvi di Orte"
    >Translation: "Orvieto's ravens / have a secret dream / to put to death /
    >all Orte's ravens"

That's in the best spirit of Italian campanilismo.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

The Reid

Following up to S Viemeister

    >> >The tune doesn't bother me - it's the verse about crushing rebellious Scots
    >> >- THAT bothers me.
    >>
    >> yep, should be more about crushing the welsh too :-)
    >Pfft.
    >With a name like Reid, you might be on the list for crushing.

indeed, my freezer is full of haggis, (I use it to frighten
American tourists) and I know the 45 wasn't the end of WW2.
If the skirl of the pipes calls again, I'll be ready to sink a
drambuie, cast off my plaid and put the English curs to the
claymore.
Oh, I came over all odd there for a second.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap