The Reids

Following up to Barbara Bomberger

    >It is the most boring thing
    >on the planet.

Wrong! The most boring *and* the most uncomfortable :-)
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Banty

In article <[email protected]>, Barbara Bomberger
says...
    >On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 12:56:07 +0100, [email protected]
    >(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
    >offy) wrote:
    >>Ericka Kammerer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>[]
    >>> Well, *I* would be whining "are we there yet!" if I
    >>> weren't trying to be the grownup on many trips ;-) I don't
    >>> particularly enjoy the getting there most of the time. But
    >>> once the flight/drive/whatever is accomplished, it's mostly
    >>> fun from there on out, and the kids seem to feel the same.
    >>Don't the kids enjoy the flight? I don't remember not enjoying flights
    >>until I was an adult, and even then, it has to be pretty grim (i.e.
    >>really long flight) for me not to enjoy it!
    >I hated flying from the time I was a kid. It is the most boring thing
    >on the planet. Children in general are not meant for sitting for long
    >periods of time (neither am I actually)

Gee, I always liked to watch the other passengers and other going ons in the
cabin, and read. I equipped my son with a Gameboy for the flight to London.
One the flight back, he zonked. It's pretty painless, really.

Banty

Sandi

Banty wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>, Barbara Bomberger
    > says...
    > >
    > >On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 12:56:07 +0100, [email protected]
    > >(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
    > >offy) wrote:
    > >
    > >>Ericka Kammerer <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>[]
    > >>> Well, *I* would be whining "are we there yet!" if I
    > >>> weren't trying to be the grownup on many trips ;-) I don't
    > >>> particularly enjoy the getting there most of the time. But
    > >>> once the flight/drive/whatever is accomplished, it's mostly
    > >>> fun from there on out, and the kids seem to feel the same.
    > >>
    > >>Don't the kids enjoy the flight? I don't remember not enjoying flights
    > >>until I was an adult, and even then, it has to be pretty grim (i.e.
    > >>really long flight) for me not to enjoy it!
    > >
    > >I hated flying from the time I was a kid. It is the most boring thing
    > >on the planet. Children in general are not meant for sitting for long
    > >periods of time (neither am I actually)
    > >
    > Gee, I always liked to watch the other passengers and other going ons in the
    > cabin, and read. I equipped my son with a Gameboy for the flight to London.
    > One the flight back, he zonked. It's pretty painless, really.
    > Banty

2.5 years is a tad bit yong for a Gameboy don't you think? When was the
last time you were seated in front of or behind a toddler who didn't
enjoy, for any number of reasons, being cooped up in an airplane for 6
hours or so on an international flight? It was August 2004 for me on a
flight from Central America to Seattle WA. I don't like flying to start
with and an already uncomfortable trip was made absolutely miserable by
incessant toddler crying.

Sandi

Sandi

Banty wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>, Ericka Kammerer says...
    > >
    > >The Reids wrote:
    > >
    > >> Following up to Ericka Kammerer
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>Do you think you
    > >>>wouldn't have enjoyed travelling as a child? In my experience,
    > >>>kids who are enjoying themselves are quite well-behaved and easy
    > >>>to work with,
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Ah, there's the problem, I see many who are bored and ill
    > >> behaved!
    > >>
    > >> "Are we there yet?"
    > >
    > > Well, *I* would be whining "are we there yet!" if I
    > >weren't trying to be the grownup on many trips ;-) I don't
    > >particularly enjoy the getting there most of the time. But
    > >once the flight/drive/whatever is accomplished, it's mostly
    > >fun from there on out, and the kids seem to feel the same.
    > >I'm sure there are kids who are dragged on travel with no
    > >consideration for their interests, needs and abilities, and
    > >there are obviously spoiled kids who'll whine if they're not
    > >getting their way every second, but there are also lots of
    > >families where the kids learn to be decent travel companions
    > >and enjoy the process--even young children.
    > My son is a pretty good road-trip travellor. He gets a kick out of helping
    > choose restaurant and motel stops. Even did when he was five or six.
    > He keeps a hawk eye out for any and every thing we're taking along with us, too.
    > Kids can be really vested into the process.


Road trips are a whole different animal and shouldn't even be compared
to 6-8 hour international airline flights. We always went on vacation
on road trips with the kid when she was a toddler. Only when she was
comfortable enough sitting for long periods in a car did we even
consider an airline flight.

5 or 6 is also quite a bit different from 2.5 years old which is the
age of the OPs child. 2.5 year olds are not going to inputting much
information or assistance to mom and dad.

Sandi

Banty

In article <[email protected] .com>, Sandi
says...
    >Banty wrote:
    >> In article <[email protected]>, Barbara Bomberger
    >> says...
    >> >
    >> >On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 12:56:07 +0100, [email protected]
    >> >(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
    >> >offy) wrote:
    >> >
    >> >>Ericka Kammerer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >>[]
    >> >>> Well, *I* would be whining "are we there yet!" if I
    >> >>> weren't trying to be the grownup on many trips ;-) I don't
    >> >>> particularly enjoy the getting there most of the time. But
    >> >>> once the flight/drive/whatever is accomplished, it's mostly
    >> >>> fun from there on out, and the kids seem to feel the same.
    >> >>
    >> >>Don't the kids enjoy the flight? I don't remember not enjoying flights
    >> >>until I was an adult, and even then, it has to be pretty grim (i.e.
    >> >>really long flight) for me not to enjoy it!
    >> >
    >> >I hated flying from the time I was a kid. It is the most boring thing
    >> >on the planet. Children in general are not meant for sitting for long
    >> >periods of time (neither am I actually)
    >> >
    >> Gee, I always liked to watch the other passengers and other going ons in the
    >> cabin, and read. I equipped my son with a Gameboy for the flight to London.
    >> One the flight back, he zonked. It's pretty painless, really.
    >> Banty
    >2.5 years is a tad bit yong for a Gameboy don't you think?

USENET discussions diverge from what exactly was in the original post, don't you
think?

For the *specific* case, in case sleep doesn't take over during the flight, I
had new playthings and books on hand. It's a modification of the same concept.

    >When was the
    >last time you were seated in front of or behind a toddler who didn't
    >enjoy, for any number of reasons, being cooped up in an airplane for 6
    >hours or so on an international flight? It was August 2004 for me on a
    >flight from Central America to Seattle WA. I don't like flying to start
    >with and an already uncomfortable trip was made absolutely miserable by
    >incessant toddler crying.

??

If you don't like flying, why are you flying??

Banty

Sandi

Banty wrote:
    > In article <[email protected] .com>, Sandi
    > says...
    > >
    > >
    > >Banty wrote:
    > >> In article <[email protected]>, Barbara Bomberger
    > >> says...
    > >> >
    > >> >On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 12:56:07 +0100, [email protected]
    > >> >(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
    > >> >offy) wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >>Ericka Kammerer <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >>[]
    > >> >>> Well, *I* would be whining "are we there yet!" if I
    > >> >>> weren't trying to be the grownup on many trips ;-) I don't
    > >> >>> particularly enjoy the getting there most of the time. But
    > >> >>> once the flight/drive/whatever is accomplished, it's mostly
    > >> >>> fun from there on out, and the kids seem to feel the same.
    > >> >>
    > >> >>Don't the kids enjoy the flight? I don't remember not enjoying flights
    > >> >>until I was an adult, and even then, it has to be pretty grim (i.e.
    > >> >>really long flight) for me not to enjoy it!
    > >> >
    > >> >I hated flying from the time I was a kid. It is the most boring thing
    > >> >on the planet. Children in general are not meant for sitting for long
    > >> >periods of time (neither am I actually)
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >> Gee, I always liked to watch the other passengers and other going ons in the
    > >> cabin, and read. I equipped my son with a Gameboy for the flight to London.
    > >> One the flight back, he zonked. It's pretty painless, really.
    > >>
    > >> Banty
    > >
    > >2.5 years is a tad bit yong for a Gameboy don't you think?
    > USENET discussions diverge from what exactly was in the original post, don't you
    > think?
    > For the *specific* case, in case sleep doesn't take over during the flight, I
    > had new playthings and books on hand. It's a modification of the same concept.
    > >When was the
    > >last time you were seated in front of or behind a toddler who didn't
    > >enjoy, for any number of reasons, being cooped up in an airplane for 6
    > >hours or so on an international flight? It was August 2004 for me on a
    > >flight from Central America to Seattle WA. I don't like flying to start
    > >with and an already uncomfortable trip was made absolutely miserable by
    > >incessant toddler crying.
    > ??
    > If you don't like flying, why are you flying??
    > Banty

It is the most expedient way for me to get from HONDURAS in CENTRAL
AMERICA to Seattle, Washington. When you only have two weeks off,
driving or taking the bus from San Pedro Sula, Honduras to Seattle,
Washington is not exactly a feasible way to travel. Flying is a
necessary evil. I don't live in the US but occasionally I have to
travel back there and flying, unfortunately, is the only time efficient
method of making the trip.

Sandi

Banty

In article <[email protected]. com>, Sandi says...
    >Banty wrote:
    >> In article <[email protected] .com>, Sandi
    >> says...
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >Banty wrote:
    >> >> In article <[email protected]>, Barbara Bomberger
    >> >> says...
    >> >> >
    >> >> >On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 12:56:07 +0100, [email protected]
    >> >> >(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
    >> >> >offy) wrote:
    >> >> >
    >> >> >>Ericka Kammerer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>[]
    >> >> >>> Well, *I* would be whining "are we there yet!" if I
    >> >> >>> weren't trying to be the grownup on many trips ;-) I don't
    >> >> >>> particularly enjoy the getting there most of the time. But
    >> >> >>> once the flight/drive/whatever is accomplished, it's mostly
    >> >> >>> fun from there on out, and the kids seem to feel the same.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>Don't the kids enjoy the flight? I don't remember not enjoying flights
    >> >> >>until I was an adult, and even then, it has to be pretty grim (i.e.
    >> >> >>really long flight) for me not to enjoy it!
    >> >> >
    >> >> >I hated flying from the time I was a kid. It is the most boring thing
    >> >> >on the planet. Children in general are not meant for sitting for long
    >> >> >periods of time (neither am I actually)
    >> >> >
    >> >>
    >>>> Gee, I always liked to watch the other passengers and other going ons in the
    >>>> cabin, and read. I equipped my son with a Gameboy for the flight to London.
    >> >> One the flight back, he zonked. It's pretty painless, really.
    >> >>
    >> >> Banty
    >> >
    >> >2.5 years is a tad bit yong for a Gameboy don't you think?
    >>USENET discussions diverge from what exactly was in the original post, don't you
    >> think?
    >> For the *specific* case, in case sleep doesn't take over during the flight, I
    >>had new playthings and books on hand. It's a modification of the same concept.
    >> >When was the
    >> >last time you were seated in front of or behind a toddler who didn't
    >> >enjoy, for any number of reasons, being cooped up in an airplane for 6
    >> >hours or so on an international flight? It was August 2004 for me on a
    >> >flight from Central America to Seattle WA. I don't like flying to start
    >> >with and an already uncomfortable trip was made absolutely miserable by
    >> >incessant toddler crying.
    >> ??
    >> If you don't like flying, why are you flying??
    >> Banty
    >It is the most expedient way for me to get from HONDURAS in CENTRAL
    >AMERICA to Seattle, Washington. When you only have two weeks off,
    >driving or taking the bus from San Pedro Sula, Honduras to Seattle,
    >Washington is not exactly a feasible way to travel. Flying is a
    >necessary evil. I don't live in the US but occasionally I have to
    >travel back there and flying, unfortunately, is the only time efficient
    >method of making the trip.
    >Sandi

For whatever decisions you made you to have business in life in Seattle,
Washington, and HONDURAS in CENTRAL AMERICA that has to be accomplished in time
efficient ways, what therefore is the Rest of the World to do to accomodate you?

If you hang around misc.kids (where this thread was crossposted to, from the
get-go) for long, you'll find that parents here give each other advice about
how to make flights decently pleasant for themselves and to be considerate of
those around them.

But the airline flight is, frankly, a Big Bus in the Sky. Not a silver shooting
business lounge, not a cozy Sandi-specific environment. Folks do the best they
can by and large. Said toddler and his parents or guardians determined that
they also have business in Seattle, Washington, and HONDURAS in CENTRAL AMERICA,
too, didn't they - some way to connect flights, at the least. How well they
dealt with the situation I can't tell from your telling.

Banty

Luca Logi

chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
offy <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > Switzerland, Iceland, Austria, Monaco.
    >
    > I've only been to Vienna, but I found it reasonable- certainly cheaper
    > than the UK from the visitor's point of view- i.e. meals, drinks,
    > accomodation, transport.

Vienna is generally more expensive than the rest of Austria. Personally,
I find Austria much cheaper than Italy.

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]

Martin

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:47:31 +0100, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >unfortunately its the ill bred one who spend the trip kicking the
    >back of the seat in front you notice!

or the parents.
--
Martin

Martin

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:51:38 +0100, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to Barbara Bomberger
    >>It is the most boring thing
    >>on the planet.
    >Wrong! The most boring *and* the most uncomfortable :-)

Long bus trips are far worse.
--
Martin

Chancellor Of The Duchy Of Besses O' Th' Barn And

The Reids <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Following up to chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    > prestwich tesco 24h offy
    >
    > > I don't remember not enjoying flights
    > >until I was an adult, and even then, it has to be pretty grim (i.e.
    > >really long flight) for me not to enjoy it!
    >
    > how do you enjoy flying? Assuming we mean airliner not a Biggles
    > experience.

The shortness factor already dealt with, I like flight. I like the
feeling of it, and I like a window seat when possible. Admittedly, the
view of clouds becomes monotonous after umpteen hours. I prefer short
flights for that reason. I often see my house when landing or taking off
from Manchester (and I'm about 13 or 14 miles away from it) and that's
pretty neat too. Even flying for business is fun, I find. Besides, I
always prefer to try and see something to enjoy in whatever I have to
do- otherwise, what's the point :)

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
pictures at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer

Chancellor Of The Duchy Of Besses O' Th' Barn And

Luca Logi <[email protected]> wrote:

    > chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h
    > offy <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > > Switzerland, Iceland, Austria, Monaco.
    > >
    > > I've only been to Vienna, but I found it reasonable- certainly cheaper
    > > than the UK from the visitor's point of view- i.e. meals, drinks,
    > > accomodation, transport.
    >
    > Vienna is generally more expensive than the rest of Austria. Personally,
    > I find Austria much cheaper than Italy.

I haven't been to Italy since 1997 (really must get back) so I obviously
can't make a good comparison. Certainly, I didn't find Vienna as
expensive as the UK, on any parameter really, so if Vienna is more
expensive than the rest of Austria, then that would confirm my guess-
that it's cheaper than the UK. In Vienna, I found that even sitting in
the most touristy cafe in the most touristy spot would not be
outrageous.

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
pictures at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer

barney2

In article <1h1apb0.1i67o36rgokcxN%this_address_is_for_spam@y ahoo.com>,
[email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of besses o'
th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:


    > Even flying for business is fun, I find. Besides, I
    > always prefer to try and see something to enjoy in whatever I have to
    > do- otherwise, what's the point :)

Likewise - I rather enjoy short-haul flying especially when a plane is not
100% full. OTOH I find airports stressful, unpleasant places.


----------------------------------------------
The poster formerly known as [email protected].
My new email address is that one, with the first digit of years in the
current century placed after the first word.

Chancellor Of The Duchy Of Besses O' Th' Barn And

<[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <1h1apb0.1i67o36rgokcxN%this_address_is_for_spam@y ahoo.com>,
    > [email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of besses o'
    > th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Even flying for business is fun, I find. Besides, I
    > > always prefer to try and see something to enjoy in whatever I have to
    > > do- otherwise, what's the point :)
    >
    > Likewise - I rather enjoy short-haul flying especially when a plane is not
    > 100% full. OTOH I find airports stressful, unpleasant places.

I find it depends on the airport. No one likes a busy airport with long
lines, and scant facilities. But others can be OK.

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
pictures at http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer

barney2

In article <1h1aqex.1fv8ns41rfz58rN%this_address_is_for_spam@ yahoo.com>,
[email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of besses o'
th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:

    > *From:* [email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of
    > besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy)
    > *Date:* Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:09:35 +0100
    >
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > In article
    > > <1h1apb0.1i67o36rgokcxN%this_address_is_for_spam@y ahoo.com>,
    > > [email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of besses
    > > o'
    > > th' barn and prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > > Even flying for business is fun, I find. Besides, I
    > > > always prefer to try and see something to enjoy in whatever I have
    > > > to
    > > > do- otherwise, what's the point :)
    > >
    > > Likewise - I rather enjoy short-haul flying especially when a plane
    > > is not
    > > 100% full. OTOH I find airports stressful, unpleasant places.
    >
    > I find it depends on the airport. No one likes a busy airport with long
    > lines, and scant facilities. But others can be OK.

Certainly some are better, or less bad, than others, though facilities
and crowds tend to increase in direct proportion.

And they change, too: for years I avoided Heathrow, with bad memories of
crowds and queues, and used Stansted whenever I could. But like the frog
being boiled I failed to notice Stansted getting more and more hectic and
when I returned to H'row for the first time in some years this April, I
was pleasantly surprised how civilised it seemed!

----------------------------------------------
The poster formerly known as [email protected].
My new email address is that one, with the first digit of years in the
current century placed after the first word.