Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
Nov 3rd 2004, 12:44 am
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
"Sjoerd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Four more years of Bush. More war, less freedom, more corporate
robbery.
> Ordinary people will suffer.
> It is a sad day for the world. Let's all fight America with all
peaceful
> means. Don't buy American products. Don't travel to the US.
> And it seems the constitutional ban on same-sex marriage has passed in
10 or
> even all 11 states where it was on the ballot. A victory for
intolerant
> Christian fundamentalists. The US is rapidly becoming the Christian
> equivalent of Iran.
Sjoerd,
There are three historic factors that determined the outcome of the
election.
Once the southern U.S. was solidly Democratic. In the '60's, Lyndon
Johnson promoted and passed civil rights legislation. Starting then,
the South shifted to being Republican. The less educated saw blacks as
a threat to jobs and political power. Now what's left is a southern
Democratic party that is primarily black, and that holds power primarily
in southern cities with large non-white populations.
Ronald Reagan began "union busting" during his terms, starting with the
Air Traffic Controller's union. Unions, which once represented a
bargaining and political force for blue collar workers, now are largely
impotent.
George H.W.Bush (the daddy) began the Republican party's marriage to the
religious Right in this country. George W. consummated the marriage,
and now we are gled by evangelical Christians who sincerely believe that
God is a Republican who speaks through George.
Many of us are leaving the U.S.. I just wish immigration to the
Netherlands wasn't so damned difficult. ;<) Many of my friends are
headed to Canada and Central America (Panama) as alternatives. I share
your cocern about my country, but I'm also concerned about yours. The
killings of Fortuin and van Gough don't bode well for the Netherlands.
You guys must be very careful not to slide toward religious and racial
intolerance, like the U.S. has done, in reaction to those killings.
Best regards,
Tom Bellhouse
Alto, Georgia, U.S.A.
news:[email protected]...
> Four more years of Bush. More war, less freedom, more corporate
robbery.
> Ordinary people will suffer.
> It is a sad day for the world. Let's all fight America with all
peaceful
> means. Don't buy American products. Don't travel to the US.
> And it seems the constitutional ban on same-sex marriage has passed in
10 or
> even all 11 states where it was on the ballot. A victory for
intolerant
> Christian fundamentalists. The US is rapidly becoming the Christian
> equivalent of Iran.
Sjoerd,
There are three historic factors that determined the outcome of the
election.
Once the southern U.S. was solidly Democratic. In the '60's, Lyndon
Johnson promoted and passed civil rights legislation. Starting then,
the South shifted to being Republican. The less educated saw blacks as
a threat to jobs and political power. Now what's left is a southern
Democratic party that is primarily black, and that holds power primarily
in southern cities with large non-white populations.
Ronald Reagan began "union busting" during his terms, starting with the
Air Traffic Controller's union. Unions, which once represented a
bargaining and political force for blue collar workers, now are largely
impotent.
George H.W.Bush (the daddy) began the Republican party's marriage to the
religious Right in this country. George W. consummated the marriage,
and now we are gled by evangelical Christians who sincerely believe that
God is a Republican who speaks through George.
Many of us are leaving the U.S.. I just wish immigration to the
Netherlands wasn't so damned difficult. ;<) Many of my friends are
headed to Canada and Central America (Panama) as alternatives. I share
your cocern about my country, but I'm also concerned about yours. The
killings of Fortuin and van Gough don't bode well for the Netherlands.
You guys must be very careful not to slide toward religious and racial
intolerance, like the U.S. has done, in reaction to those killings.
Best regards,
Tom Bellhouse
Alto, Georgia, U.S.A.
Nov 3rd 2004, 1:06 am
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:
>I personally will cooperate with the US since my American social Security
>Checks from from there!
Ah, I always wondered why you bothered to retain your American
citizenship...
--
"... a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the
facts is not a person you want as your Commander in Chief".
George W. Bush Oct 26, 2004
>I personally will cooperate with the US since my American social Security
>Checks from from there!
Ah, I always wondered why you bothered to retain your American
citizenship...
--
"... a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the
facts is not a person you want as your Commander in Chief".
George W. Bush Oct 26, 2004
Nov 3rd 2004, 1:12 am
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 07:52:07 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:24:54 +0100, "Wolf" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Start by not watching our mmovies or listening to our music, never happen
>>> Never Forgive, Never Forget
>>> 9-11-01
>>We mourned your losses on that day and felt closer to the US than ever.
>>We understood why you went after the Taliban. But the lies about Iraq we did
>>not understand. In my country, Norway, Bush would have gotten 7%, Kerry 93%.
>>We're not desert dwellers. We're not muslims. We're one of your oldest
>>allies.
>What is it you don't understand about freeing a country from a mad
>killer like Saddam who, by UNESCO estimates, was killing between 60
>and 100,000 people a year? Do you think that only Norway deserves
>such consideration? Your problem is that your press is so slanted you
>completely ignore the truth, yet we saw exactly how Europe thinks and
>acts both when it opposed Reagan putting Pershing missiles into Europe
>which started the downfall of the Soviet Union and in Bosnia where you
>sat on your hands while genocide went on for over a decade. If you
>are going to be an ally, then you need to stand up and be counted in
>situations like this, not pretend over your cups of coffee that you
>are anything but a fair weather friend, though in your country's case,
>Norway did stand up afterwards for a while in Iraq at least.
>>Does it not concern you at all when you anihilate old friends? It makes me
>>sad. Your country represents many great things. Why does it not interest tha
>>US when your old friends ask you to rethink? Even the US needs friends, but
>>they are now few and far between. Please come back.
>Just which friends have been annihilated? We only attack enemies.
>And you don't think watching 12 years of UN inaction, oil bribes, etc.
>was enough while Saddam was slaughtering well over a million people?
>I don't think we are the ones who need to rethink.
It's time for the newly mandated GOP US government to enact and
enforce strict trade embargoes on France, Germany, and Spain until
they oust the current governments and replace them with
administrations who know right from wrong (perhaps the Scandinavian
countries as well). Any other government or company that does business
with the embargoed countries will also be sanctioned.
Europe had better be prepared to support a US occupation of Iran,
Saudi Arabia, and most of the Middle East as well as a brief, but
decisive nuclear attack on North Korea to end that problem once and
for all.
It's time to voluntarily get with the US program, Europe, or be
prepared to be forced to do so. The time for diplomacy is over.
>On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:24:54 +0100, "Wolf" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Start by not watching our mmovies or listening to our music, never happen
>>> Never Forgive, Never Forget
>>> 9-11-01
>>We mourned your losses on that day and felt closer to the US than ever.
>>We understood why you went after the Taliban. But the lies about Iraq we did
>>not understand. In my country, Norway, Bush would have gotten 7%, Kerry 93%.
>>We're not desert dwellers. We're not muslims. We're one of your oldest
>>allies.
>What is it you don't understand about freeing a country from a mad
>killer like Saddam who, by UNESCO estimates, was killing between 60
>and 100,000 people a year? Do you think that only Norway deserves
>such consideration? Your problem is that your press is so slanted you
>completely ignore the truth, yet we saw exactly how Europe thinks and
>acts both when it opposed Reagan putting Pershing missiles into Europe
>which started the downfall of the Soviet Union and in Bosnia where you
>sat on your hands while genocide went on for over a decade. If you
>are going to be an ally, then you need to stand up and be counted in
>situations like this, not pretend over your cups of coffee that you
>are anything but a fair weather friend, though in your country's case,
>Norway did stand up afterwards for a while in Iraq at least.
>>Does it not concern you at all when you anihilate old friends? It makes me
>>sad. Your country represents many great things. Why does it not interest tha
>>US when your old friends ask you to rethink? Even the US needs friends, but
>>they are now few and far between. Please come back.
>Just which friends have been annihilated? We only attack enemies.
>And you don't think watching 12 years of UN inaction, oil bribes, etc.
>was enough while Saddam was slaughtering well over a million people?
>I don't think we are the ones who need to rethink.
It's time for the newly mandated GOP US government to enact and
enforce strict trade embargoes on France, Germany, and Spain until
they oust the current governments and replace them with
administrations who know right from wrong (perhaps the Scandinavian
countries as well). Any other government or company that does business
with the embargoed countries will also be sanctioned.
Europe had better be prepared to support a US occupation of Iran,
Saudi Arabia, and most of the Middle East as well as a brief, but
decisive nuclear attack on North Korea to end that problem once and
for all.
It's time to voluntarily get with the US program, Europe, or be
prepared to be forced to do so. The time for diplomacy is over.
Nov 3rd 2004, 1:39 am
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
Following up to Juliana L Holm
>I wonder if history will not see the Bush years as the beginning of the decline
>of the US as a world player.
Margaret Thatcher seemed invincible in the UK, her party is now
talked of as being in terminal decline. I don't know about US,
but IMHO you get elected in UK if the majority of the press
decide to back you.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>I wonder if history will not see the Bush years as the beginning of the decline
>of the US as a world player.
Margaret Thatcher seemed invincible in the UK, her party is now
talked of as being in terminal decline. I don't know about US,
but IMHO you get elected in UK if the majority of the press
decide to back you.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Nov 3rd 2004, 1:39 am
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
Following up to BTC/TAK/ACK Mila
>Hearing that "moral issues" were more important to Bush supporters than the
>economy, the war in Iraq, and even terrorism makes me wonder what kind of
>country we've become?
this is things like abortion and sex before marriage?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>Hearing that "moral issues" were more important to Bush supporters than the
>economy, the war in Iraq, and even terrorism makes me wonder what kind of
>country we've become?
this is things like abortion and sex before marriage?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Nov 3rd 2004, 1:43 am
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:44:12 +0000, xz wrote:
> If Bush has won, the major down side is that we will all be plagued by
> Hillery in 4 years time. If the other person, who's name escapes me at the
> moment, had won then poor old Hillery would have been past her "Sell By"
> date in 8 years time.
Who?
> If Bush has won, the major down side is that we will all be plagued by
> Hillery in 4 years time. If the other person, who's name escapes me at the
> moment, had won then poor old Hillery would have been past her "Sell By"
> date in 8 years time.
Who?
Nov 3rd 2004, 1:46 am
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:29:55 +0100, Tim Challenger wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:28:10 +0100, Magda wrote:
>
>>
>> Rednecks don't have passports.
>
> Who needs a passport when you have a big gun?
Actually, big guns more like manhood replacement. And yes, these are the
guys who support GW too. I guess they identify not just with him being
intellectually challenged but perhaps manhood challenged too?
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:28:10 +0100, Magda wrote:
>
>>
>> Rednecks don't have passports.
>
> Who needs a passport when you have a big gun?
Actually, big guns more like manhood replacement. And yes, these are the
guys who support GW too. I guess they identify not just with him being
intellectually challenged but perhaps manhood challenged too?
Nov 3rd 2004, 1:47 am
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:48:59 +0000, Thomas wrote:
>> > Perhaps Americans will need "I voted Kerry" baseball caps!
>> Or a Canadian flag on the T-shirt.
>
> I've always wondered if backpacks bought in Canada come with the little flag
> already sewn on.
We have a couple of Roots backpacks that do come with a tiny flag sewn on.
But it's probably too small for the purpose you have in mind.
>> > Perhaps Americans will need "I voted Kerry" baseball caps!
>> Or a Canadian flag on the T-shirt.
>
> I've always wondered if backpacks bought in Canada come with the little flag
> already sewn on.
We have a couple of Roots backpacks that do come with a tiny flag sewn on.
But it's probably too small for the purpose you have in mind.
Nov 3rd 2004, 1:52 am
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
The Reids <[email protected]> wrote:
> Following up to BTC/TAK/ACK Mila
>>Hearing that "moral issues" were more important to Bush supporters than the
>>economy, the war in Iraq, and even terrorism makes me wonder what kind of
>>country we've become?
> this is things like abortion and sex before marriage?
Yes.
War Crimes and ignoring the poor are not evidently "moral" values in the US.
> --
> Mike Reid
> Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
> Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
> Following up to BTC/TAK/ACK Mila
>>Hearing that "moral issues" were more important to Bush supporters than the
>>economy, the war in Iraq, and even terrorism makes me wonder what kind of
>>country we've become?
> this is things like abortion and sex before marriage?
Yes.
War Crimes and ignoring the poor are not evidently "moral" values in the US.
> --
> Mike Reid
> Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
> Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
Nov 3rd 2004, 2:07 am
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
Following up to Tim Challenger
>> Good. One less moron to worry about.
>Why one less?
>Don't tell me you were worried by Mike before the election?
Ah, jbk is back. I hope his posts are up to usual standard.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>> Good. One less moron to worry about.
>Why one less?
>Don't tell me you were worried by Mike before the election?
Ah, jbk is back. I hope his posts are up to usual standard.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Nov 3rd 2004, 2:07 am
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
Following up to Magda
> ... As for travelling to US, I was already put of by the finger
> ... printing malarky, not that I do long haul in the first place.
>Don't you mean "malakia", Mike ? ;)
malakia? What does that mean?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
> ... As for travelling to US, I was already put of by the finger
> ... printing malarky, not that I do long haul in the first place.
>Don't you mean "malakia", Mike ? ;)
malakia? What does that mean?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Nov 3rd 2004, 2:07 am
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
Following up to Mike
>So I guess the answer (but not the reason) to why the US
>went into Iraq depends on what uneducated people in the US will
>believe on a particular day.
we also shouldnt forget SH was treated as an ally for a long
time.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>So I guess the answer (but not the reason) to why the US
>went into Iraq depends on what uneducated people in the US will
>believe on a particular day.
we also shouldnt forget SH was treated as an ally for a long
time.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Nov 3rd 2004, 2:07 am
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
Following up to Hank Chisolm
>Europe had better be prepared to support a US occupation of Iran,
>Saudi Arabia, and most of the Middle East as well as a brief, but
>decisive nuclear attack on North Korea to end that problem once and
>for all.
No Cuba?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>Europe had better be prepared to support a US occupation of Iran,
>Saudi Arabia, and most of the Middle East as well as a brief, but
>decisive nuclear attack on North Korea to end that problem once and
>for all.
No Cuba?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Nov 3rd 2004, 2:23 am
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:07:15 +0000, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to Hank Chisolm
>>Europe had better be prepared to support a US occupation of Iran,
>>Saudi Arabia, and most of the Middle East as well as a brief, but
>>decisive nuclear attack on North Korea to end that problem once and
>>for all.
>No Cuba?
Oh, probably. But Castro's in ill health and will probably pop off
soon. We can just wait a bit then waltz in and pick up the pieces or
let it turn into another Haiti (more likely, who needs more Cubans?).
There will probably be a few hotspots that need some military action,
the Philippines, Indonesia, left-leaning govt.s in SE Asia. But we
have time, if not patience, and we are well on the way to being a
full-fledged war economy so we'll have the necessary resources after
another Bush administration or two.
China will be a problem eventually simply due to population, but once
everything is in place, it will be simple to isolate China
ecomomically and diplomatically, then a timely introduction of a
fast-moving bio-weapon (plague, ebola) will decimate the population
down to a manageble opponent.
Pax Americanum, accept it, it's coming.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to Hank Chisolm
>>Europe had better be prepared to support a US occupation of Iran,
>>Saudi Arabia, and most of the Middle East as well as a brief, but
>>decisive nuclear attack on North Korea to end that problem once and
>>for all.
>No Cuba?
Oh, probably. But Castro's in ill health and will probably pop off
soon. We can just wait a bit then waltz in and pick up the pieces or
let it turn into another Haiti (more likely, who needs more Cubans?).
There will probably be a few hotspots that need some military action,
the Philippines, Indonesia, left-leaning govt.s in SE Asia. But we
have time, if not patience, and we are well on the way to being a
full-fledged war economy so we'll have the necessary resources after
another Bush administration or two.
China will be a problem eventually simply due to population, but once
everything is in place, it will be simple to isolate China
ecomomically and diplomatically, then a timely introduction of a
fast-moving bio-weapon (plague, ebola) will decimate the population
down to a manageble opponent.
Pax Americanum, accept it, it's coming.
Nov 3rd 2004, 2:25 am
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Condolences to the world and the minority of sane Americans
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:07:14 +0000, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to Mike
>>So I guess the answer (but not the reason) to why the US
>>went into Iraq depends on what uneducated people in the US will
>>believe on a particular day.
>we also shouldnt forget SH was treated as an ally for a long
>time.
As has been Tony Blair and the UK. Things change. Keep that in mind at
the polls.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to Mike
>>So I guess the answer (but not the reason) to why the US
>>went into Iraq depends on what uneducated people in the US will
>>believe on a particular day.
>we also shouldnt forget SH was treated as an ally for a long
>time.
As has been Tony Blair and the UK. Things change. Keep that in mind at
the polls.
