Tim Challenger

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:03:24 GMT, Jim Ley wrote:

    > Most of the USAians you meet overseas tend to dislike Bush as much as
    > the rest of us,

... or at least they say they do.


I wonder what the proportion of Bush-lovers and haters are that travel
(voluntarily) to Europe.

--
Tim C.

Wolf

    > Start by not watching our mmovies or listening to our music, never happen
    > Never Forgive, Never Forget
    > 9-11-01


We mourned your losses on that day and felt closer to the US than ever.
We understood why you went after the Taliban. But the lies about Iraq we did
not understand. In my country, Norway, Bush would have gotten 7%, Kerry 93%.
We're not desert dwellers. We're not muslims. We're one of your oldest
allies.
Does it not concern you at all when you anihilate old friends? It makes me
sad. Your country represents many great things. Why does it not interest tha
US when your old friends ask you to rethink? Even the US needs friends, but
they are now few and far between. Please come back.

W.

Icono Clast

Sjoerd wrote:
    > Four more years of Bush. More war, less freedom, more corporate
    > robbery.Ordinary people will suffer.
    > It is a sad day for the world. Let's all fight America with all
    > peaceful means. Don't buy American products. Don't travel to the
    > the US.
    > And it seems the constitutional ban on same-sex marriage has in
    > 10 passed or even all 11 states where it was on the ballot. A
    > victory for intolerant Christian fundamentalists. The US is
    > rapidly becoming the Christian equivalent of Iran.

It won in each of the eleven states although I believe some were not
to impose a ban but whether to accept gay marriages.

This is a good thing because I believe it will be challenged and
overturned by the Supreme Court.

In at least one state, there will be a challenge based on there being
two issues in one Proposition: 1=marriage and 2=civil union (or
something with legal recognition for medical decisions, inheritance,
etc.). But that will be the Proposition, not the issue.

It is 02:46 in San Francisco. It's just been announced that it
appears that the Incumbent Idiot has won.
__________________________________________________ __________
A San Franciscan in (where else?) San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 IClast at SFbay Net

Juliana L Holm

Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:

    > We mourned your losses on that day and felt closer to the US than ever.
    > We understood why you went after the Taliban. But the lies about Iraq we did
    > not understand. In my country, Norway, Bush would have gotten 7%, Kerry 93%.
    > We're not desert dwellers. We're not muslims. We're one of your oldest
    > allies.
    > Does it not concern you at all when you anihilate old friends? It makes me
    > sad. Your country represents many great things. Why does it not interest tha
    > US when your old friends ask you to rethink? Even the US needs friends, but
    > they are now few and far between. Please come back.

Unfortunately two things seem to motivate too many of us now; greed and fear.
It pains me that we are not only alienating our enemies, but we are destroying
our children's futures. I knew this was going to be close, but I am very
depressed today.

Clearly we are a very divided country and I can only hope that the world will
understand that we do not fully support the man in the president's office.

On the other hand, we did elect him and we did increase the number of con-
servatives in congress, so we are are complicit in this.

I wonder if history will not see the Bush years as the beginning of the decline
of the US as a world player.


--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

jbk

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:35:06 +0100, "sascha" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Sjoerd" <[email protected]> schrieb:
    >> Four more years of Bush. More war, less freedom, more corporate robbery.
    >> Ordinary people will suffer.
    >...nochmals 4 Jahre Lug und Trug...angst...einjagend!
    >(4 more years of lies and deception)
    >it's frigheeeennnnning, shudder.

Chirac and Schroder are in power that long?

Xz

If Bush has won, the major down side is that we will all be plagued by
Hillery in 4 years time. If the other person, who's name escapes me at the
moment, had won then poor old Hillery would have been past her "Sell By"
date in 8 years time.

jbk

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:24:54 +0100, "Wolf" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Start by not watching our mmovies or listening to our music, never happen
    >> Never Forgive, Never Forget
    >> 9-11-01
    >We mourned your losses on that day and felt closer to the US than ever.
    >We understood why you went after the Taliban. But the lies about Iraq we did
    >not understand. In my country, Norway, Bush would have gotten 7%, Kerry 93%.
    >We're not desert dwellers. We're not muslims. We're one of your oldest
    >allies.

What is it you don't understand about freeing a country from a mad
killer like Saddam who, by UNESCO estimates, was killing between 60
and 100,000 people a year? Do you think that only Norway deserves
such consideration? Your problem is that your press is so slanted you
completely ignore the truth, yet we saw exactly how Europe thinks and
acts both when it opposed Reagan putting Pershing missiles into Europe
which started the downfall of the Soviet Union and in Bosnia where you
sat on your hands while genocide went on for over a decade. If you
are going to be an ally, then you need to stand up and be counted in
situations like this, not pretend over your cups of coffee that you
are anything but a fair weather friend, though in your country's case,
Norway did stand up afterwards for a while in Iraq at least.

    >Does it not concern you at all when you anihilate old friends? It makes me
    >sad. Your country represents many great things. Why does it not interest tha
    >US when your old friends ask you to rethink? Even the US needs friends, but
    >they are now few and far between. Please come back.

Just which friends have been annihilated? We only attack enemies.
And you don't think watching 12 years of UN inaction, oil bribes, etc.
was enough while Saddam was slaughtering well over a million people?
I don't think we are the ones who need to rethink.

jbk

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:37:48 +0000 (UTC), Juliana L Holm
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> We mourned your losses on that day and felt closer to the US than ever.
    >> We understood why you went after the Taliban. But the lies about Iraq we did
    >> not understand. In my country, Norway, Bush would have gotten 7%, Kerry 93%.
    >> We're not desert dwellers. We're not muslims. We're one of your oldest
    >> allies.
    >> Does it not concern you at all when you anihilate old friends? It makes me
    >> sad. Your country represents many great things. Why does it not interest tha
    >> US when your old friends ask you to rethink? Even the US needs friends, but
    >> they are now few and far between. Please come back.
    >Unfortunately two things seem to motivate too many of us now; greed and fear.
    >It pains me that we are not only alienating our enemies, but we are destroying
    >our children's futures. I knew this was going to be close, but I am very
    >depressed today.
    >Clearly we are a very divided country and I can only hope that the world will
    >understand that we do not fully support the man in the president's office.
    >On the other hand, we did elect him and we did increase the number of con-
    >servatives in congress, so we are are complicit in this.
    >I wonder if history will not see the Bush years as the beginning of the decline
    >of the US as a world player.

Typical drivel of the loser left. Moan, moan, moan. That's all they
do other than screw up government when they are in power, which is
why, once again, they are not.

jbk

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:03:24 GMT, [email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:

    >On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:32:05 +0000, The Reids
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Assuming Bush has won I wonder if it will change anything for
    >>travellers. When people ask here "will I be welcome in Europe?"
    >>we have always said no problem. Re electing Bush in the face of
    >>Iraq might make some people see Americans as more culpable after
    >>making the same mistake twice? Perhaps Americans will need "I
    >>voted Kerry" baseball caps!
    >Most of the USAians you meet overseas tend to dislike Bush as much as
    >the rest of us, that's been my experience so far anyway.
    >>As for travelling to US, I was already put of by the finger
    >>printing malarky, not that I do long haul in the first place.
    >Even though I can get there for f'all at the moment from the UK, and
    >with the crappy dollar, get some cheap-stuff, I certainly won't be
    >going with that fingerprinting stuff.
    >Jim.

Yeah, crappy dollar means your economy is headed for the tank
competitively genius. HAHAHA!

Mike

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 07:52:07 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

    >On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:24:54 +0100, "Wolf" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> Start by not watching our mmovies or listening to our music, never happen
    >>> Never Forgive, Never Forget
    >>> 9-11-01
    >>We mourned your losses on that day and felt closer to the US than ever.
    >>We understood why you went after the Taliban. But the lies about Iraq we did
    >>not understand. In my country, Norway, Bush would have gotten 7%, Kerry 93%.
    >>We're not desert dwellers. We're not muslims. We're one of your oldest
    >>allies.
    >What is it you don't understand about freeing a country from a mad
    >killer like Saddam who, by UNESCO estimates, was killing between 60
    >and 100,000 people a year? Do you think that only Norway deserves
    >such consideration? Your problem is that your press is so slanted you
    >completely ignore the truth, yet we saw exactly how Europe thinks and
    >acts both when it opposed Reagan putting Pershing missiles into Europe
    >which started the downfall of the Soviet Union and in Bosnia where you
    >sat on your hands while genocide went on for over a decade. If you
    >are going to be an ally, then you need to stand up and be counted in
    >situations like this, not pretend over your cups of coffee that you
    >are anything but a fair weather friend, though in your country's case,
    >Norway did stand up afterwards for a while in Iraq at least.
You ask what is not understood about freeing a country from a mad
man... "W" said that we were going in there because Saddam is closely
linked to the Taliban. Oh wait, that changed to WMD. Oh wait, that's
right, the final answer was to free Iraq's people from an opressive
dictator. So I guess the answer (but not the reason) to why the US
went into Iraq depends on what uneducated people in the US will
believe on a particular day. Also, why is the US in the business of
freeing countries from dictators? If the US is, the US should have
gone into North Korea and Cuba also. But, neither of those countries
have oil, so it was not a worthwhile investment for the Bush boys (not
to mention that North Korea would have been able to put up a fight,
unlike Iraq).

    >>Does it not concern you at all when you anihilate old friends? It makes me
    >>sad. Your country represents many great things. Why does it not interest tha
    >>US when your old friends ask you to rethink? Even the US needs friends, but
    >>they are now few and far between. Please come back.
    >Just which friends have been annihilated? We only attack enemies.
    >And you don't think watching 12 years of UN inaction, oil bribes, etc.
    >was enough while Saddam was slaughtering well over a million people?
    >I don't think we are the ones who need to rethink.

BTC/TAK/ACK Mila

    > ...Why does it not interest tha US when your old friends ask you to
rethink? ... Please come back.

Thanks for the "olive branch"... perhaps you've noticed how divided the US
is. I guess it's time we, here, really become more afraid of how America is
perceived abroad. Practically everyone I know is... certainly I am... even
more upset by the election results than I thought would be.

Hearing that "moral issues" were more important to Bush supporters than the
economy, the war in Iraq, and even terrorism makes me wonder what kind of
country we've become?

"Wolf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > Start by not watching our mmovies or listening to our music, never
happen
    > > Never Forgive, Never Forget
    > > 9-11-01
    > We mourned your losses on that day and felt closer to the US than ever.
    > We understood why you went after the Taliban. But the lies about Iraq we
did
    > not understand. In my country, Norway, Bush would have gotten 7%, Kerry
93%.
    > We're not desert dwellers. We're not muslims. We're one of your oldest
    > allies.
    > Does it not concern you at all when you anihilate old friends? It makes me
    > sad. Your country represents many great things. Why does it not interest
tha
    > US when your old friends ask you to rethink? Even the US needs friends,
but
    > they are now few and far between. Please come back.
    > W.

Magda

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:21:24 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected]
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Magda <[email protected]> writes:
...
... > I hate it when I start the day with the feeling that the world has
... > gone insane while I was sleeping.
...
... Not the world; just the USA.

Wanna bet ? It's contagious !

Magda

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:32:05 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, The Reids
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Following up to Sjoerd
...
... >It is a sad day for the world. Let's all fight America with all peaceful
... >means.
...
... Assuming Bush has won I wonder if it will change anything for
... travellers. When people ask here "will I be welcome in Europe?"
... we have always said no problem. Re electing Bush in the face of
... Iraq might make some people see Americans as more culpable after
... making the same mistake twice? Perhaps Americans will need "I
... voted Kerry" baseball caps!
...
... >Don't buy American products. Don't travel to the US.
...
... I here promise to never eat a McDogburger, drink a coke or drive
... a Humvee ever again! :-)
... As for travelling to US, I was already put of by the finger
... printing malarky, not that I do long haul in the first place.

Don't you mean "malakia", Mike ? ;)

Magda

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:18:35 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Tim Challenger
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:03:24 GMT, Jim Ley wrote:
...
... > Most of the USAians you meet overseas tend to dislike Bush as much as
... > the rest of us,
...
... ... or at least they say they do.
...
...
... I wonder what the proportion of Bush-lovers and haters are that travel
... (voluntarily) to Europe.

Rednecks don't have passports.

Tim Challenger

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:28:10 +0100, Magda wrote:

    > On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:18:35 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, Tim Challenger
    > <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
    >
    > ... On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:03:24 GMT, Jim Ley wrote:
    > ...
    > ... > Most of the USAians you meet overseas tend to dislike Bush as much as
    > ... > the rest of us,
    > ...
    > ... ... or at least they say they do.
    > ...
    > ...
    > ... I wonder what the proportion of Bush-lovers and haters are that travel
    > ... (voluntarily) to Europe.
    >
    > Rednecks don't have passports.

Who needs a passport when you have a big gun?
--
Tim C.