The Brits ID card crisis
Dec 21st 2004, 7:36 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:31:04 +0100, Tim Challenger
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
>name, photo, number and date of birth.
Yes, the proposed UK ones are rather different and involve unique
immediate identifiers into all the other databases based on biometric
data in the card.
Jim.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
>name, photo, number and date of birth.
Yes, the proposed UK ones are rather different and involve unique
immediate identifiers into all the other databases based on biometric
data in the card.
Jim.
Dec 21st 2004, 7:49 am
#17
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Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
"nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
| Most other European countries have that power already. Some of them also
| have Police in whom I have much less confidence than I have in ours. How
| often have you been stopped at random and been asked for your passport in
| one of those countries?
An the problem is?
news:[email protected]...
| Most other European countries have that power already. Some of them also
| have Police in whom I have much less confidence than I have in ours. How
| often have you been stopped at random and been asked for your passport in
| one of those countries?
An the problem is?
Dec 21st 2004, 7:57 am
#18
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Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
Am Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:31:04 +0100 schrieb Tim Challenger:
> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
> The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
> name, photo, number and date of birth.
In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to be
changed. Would be difficult to do that in the UK, as they don't have that
system where you have to report to your council when you move house.
> In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
> street or in a bar.
Agree, it doesn't happen often and at least in Germany there is no law
requiring you to carry the ID with you all the time - you just have to be
in a position that you can present it, e.g. it's okay to have it at home or
in your hotel-room and you can get it, to show to the police.
Here the police is only allowed to make random ID-checks at certain areas,
like train-stations or airports or ports, or in certain situations, like
around big demonstrations, or maybe at big football games where the police
tries to identify hooligans.
Regards,
Frank
> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
> The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
> name, photo, number and date of birth.
In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to be
changed. Would be difficult to do that in the UK, as they don't have that
system where you have to report to your council when you move house.
> In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
> street or in a bar.
Agree, it doesn't happen often and at least in Germany there is no law
requiring you to carry the ID with you all the time - you just have to be
in a position that you can present it, e.g. it's okay to have it at home or
in your hotel-room and you can get it, to show to the police.
Here the police is only allowed to make random ID-checks at certain areas,
like train-stations or airports or ports, or in certain situations, like
around big demonstrations, or maybe at big football games where the police
tries to identify hooligans.
Regards,
Frank
Dec 21st 2004, 8:09 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:35:09 GMT, Jim Ley wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:25:31 +0100, Tim Challenger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>It's funny, I think that in many parts of the EU identity cards are
>>commonplace, yet the populations baulk at the idea of video cameras in
>>public places, yet in the UK it's the other way round. Videos all over the
>>place actively watching your every move, yet they can't accept a passive ID
>>card.
>
> They're different sort of things to my mind.
>
> The ID card allows immediate interference by the police etc. and
> criminalises the forgetful, whereas the video camera is only any use
> as a retroactive what happened.
>
> Jim.
The cameras are watching you all the time. It can be checked later to find
your whereabouts over a wide range of times and places. A copper checking
an ID only knows you where at one place at one time. The camera is the
secret policeman constantly checking your ID.
--
Tim C.
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:25:31 +0100, Tim Challenger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>It's funny, I think that in many parts of the EU identity cards are
>>commonplace, yet the populations baulk at the idea of video cameras in
>>public places, yet in the UK it's the other way round. Videos all over the
>>place actively watching your every move, yet they can't accept a passive ID
>>card.
>
> They're different sort of things to my mind.
>
> The ID card allows immediate interference by the police etc. and
> criminalises the forgetful, whereas the video camera is only any use
> as a retroactive what happened.
>
> Jim.
The cameras are watching you all the time. It can be checked later to find
your whereabouts over a wide range of times and places. A copper checking
an ID only knows you where at one place at one time. The camera is the
secret policeman constantly checking your ID.
--
Tim C.
Dec 21st 2004, 8:11 am
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:57:30 +0100, Frank Hucklenbroich wrote:
> Am Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:31:04 +0100 schrieb Tim Challenger:
>
>> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>> The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
>> name, photo, number and date of birth.
>
> In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to be
> changed. Would be difficult to do that in the UK, as they don't have that
> system where you have to report to your council when you move house.
>
>> In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
>> street or in a bar.
>
> Agree, it doesn't happen often and at least in Germany there is no law
> requiring you to carry the ID with you all the time - you just have to be
> in a position that you can present it, e.g. it's okay to have it at home or
> in your hotel-room and you can get it, to show to the police.
>
> Here the police is only allowed to make random ID-checks at certain areas,
> like train-stations or airports or ports, or in certain situations, like
> around big demonstrations, or maybe at big football games where the police
> tries to identify hooligans.
>
> Regards,
>
> Frank
I forgot about the Address, as I don#t have one to check, but I've seen
them.
--
Tim C.
> Am Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:31:04 +0100 schrieb Tim Challenger:
>
>> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>> The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
>> name, photo, number and date of birth.
>
> In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to be
> changed. Would be difficult to do that in the UK, as they don't have that
> system where you have to report to your council when you move house.
>
>> In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
>> street or in a bar.
>
> Agree, it doesn't happen often and at least in Germany there is no law
> requiring you to carry the ID with you all the time - you just have to be
> in a position that you can present it, e.g. it's okay to have it at home or
> in your hotel-room and you can get it, to show to the police.
>
> Here the police is only allowed to make random ID-checks at certain areas,
> like train-stations or airports or ports, or in certain situations, like
> around big demonstrations, or maybe at big football games where the police
> tries to identify hooligans.
>
> Regards,
>
> Frank
I forgot about the Address, as I don#t have one to check, but I've seen
them.
--
Tim C.
Dec 21st 2004, 8:17 am
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:57:30 +0100, Frank Hucklenbroich wrote:
> Am Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:31:04 +0100 schrieb Tim Challenger:
>
>> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>> The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
>> name, photo, number and date of birth.
>
> In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to be
> changed. Would be difficult to do that in the UK, as they don't have that
> system where you have to report to your council when you move house.
>
>> In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
>> street or in a bar.
>
> Agree, it doesn't happen often and at least in Germany there is no law
> requiring you to carry the ID with you all the time - you just have to be
> in a position that you can present it, e.g. it's okay to have it at home or
> in your hotel-room and you can get it, to show to the police.
>
> Here the police is only allowed to make random ID-checks at certain areas,
> like train-stations or airports or ports, or in certain situations, like
> around big demonstrations, or maybe at big football games where the police
> tries to identify hooligans.
As you say, it happens so rarely that I don't even know the general points
of the law, let alone the finer points.
--
Tim C.
> Am Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:31:04 +0100 schrieb Tim Challenger:
>
>> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>> The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
>> name, photo, number and date of birth.
>
> In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to be
> changed. Would be difficult to do that in the UK, as they don't have that
> system where you have to report to your council when you move house.
>
>> In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
>> street or in a bar.
>
> Agree, it doesn't happen often and at least in Germany there is no law
> requiring you to carry the ID with you all the time - you just have to be
> in a position that you can present it, e.g. it's okay to have it at home or
> in your hotel-room and you can get it, to show to the police.
>
> Here the police is only allowed to make random ID-checks at certain areas,
> like train-stations or airports or ports, or in certain situations, like
> around big demonstrations, or maybe at big football games where the police
> tries to identify hooligans.
As you say, it happens so rarely that I don't even know the general points
of the law, let alone the finer points.
--
Tim C.
Dec 21st 2004, 8:22 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:53:35 +0000, [email protected]
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn) wrote:
>nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:51:32 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >"Stu" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>I really don't know what the fuss is about. If you've got nothing to hide
>> >>then who cares about carrying an ID card. ...
>> >>
>> >Ironic that this argument is made by a poster who does not reveal his
>> >identity.
>>
>> Are suggesting that when ID cards are issued in UK every recipient
>> will get 100 tins of Spam pushed through their letter box every day?
>Huh? My address above is a perfectly legitimate one. I just don't check
>it very much. As my .sig shows, it's perfectly possible to deflect junk
>mail and make your identity known. To be clear, I'm not saying that one
>_has_ to reveal their identity on USENET- that's their choice. However,
>"Stu" conceals his, and that's what Padraig was pointing out. It is at
>least a little ironic, given Stu's post.
It is not unknown for somebody to unmunge an address and then use it
to subscribe somebody to all sorts of nasty things. I'm sure if you
push the point hard enough somebody will give you a demo.
--
Martin
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn) wrote:
>nitram <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:51:32 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >"Stu" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>I really don't know what the fuss is about. If you've got nothing to hide
>> >>then who cares about carrying an ID card. ...
>> >>
>> >Ironic that this argument is made by a poster who does not reveal his
>> >identity.
>>
>> Are suggesting that when ID cards are issued in UK every recipient
>> will get 100 tins of Spam pushed through their letter box every day?
>Huh? My address above is a perfectly legitimate one. I just don't check
>it very much. As my .sig shows, it's perfectly possible to deflect junk
>mail and make your identity known. To be clear, I'm not saying that one
>_has_ to reveal their identity on USENET- that's their choice. However,
>"Stu" conceals his, and that's what Padraig was pointing out. It is at
>least a little ironic, given Stu's post.
It is not unknown for somebody to unmunge an address and then use it
to subscribe somebody to all sorts of nasty things. I'm sure if you
push the point hard enough somebody will give you a demo.
--
Martin
Dec 21st 2004, 8:23 am
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:31:04 +0100, Tim Challenger
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:25:16 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
>> On demand "Your papers please" while walking down the street is giving
>> up huge personnel freedom. Can they collect this data ?
>Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
>name, photo, number and date of birth.
>In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
>street or in a bar.
In addition many people have to wear ID badges at work, in UK too.
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:25:16 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
>> On demand "Your papers please" while walking down the street is giving
>> up huge personnel freedom. Can they collect this data ?
>Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
>name, photo, number and date of birth.
>In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
>street or in a bar.
In addition many people have to wear ID badges at work, in UK too.
--
Martin
Dec 21st 2004, 8:44 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
"Frank Hucklenbroich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to be
> changed. Would be difficult to do that in the UK, as they don't have that
> system where you have to report to your council when you move house.
One issue is that the new ID cards would introduce just such a requirement
to tell the state when you move.
Alan Harrison
news:[email protected]...
> In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to be
> changed. Would be difficult to do that in the UK, as they don't have that
> system where you have to report to your council when you move house.
One issue is that the new ID cards would introduce just such a requirement
to tell the state when you move.
Alan Harrison
Dec 21st 2004, 9:08 am
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
In article <1103617687.81a9175e57def3572a2ca301a4e370dc@teran ews>, Tim
Challenger <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:25:16 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
>
> > On demand "Your papers please" while walking down the street is giving
> > up huge personnel freedom. Can they collect this data ?
>
> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
The act of driving is considered a privilege and requires a licence.
In the U.S., you are Constitutionally protected against "your papers
please" searches... although most recently a few courts decisions
appear to eroding this, perhaps.
jay
Tue Dec 21, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
> The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
> name, photo, number and date of birth.
> In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
> street or in a bar.
Challenger <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:25:16 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
>
> > On demand "Your papers please" while walking down the street is giving
> > up huge personnel freedom. Can they collect this data ?
>
> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
The act of driving is considered a privilege and requires a licence.
In the U.S., you are Constitutionally protected against "your papers
please" searches... although most recently a few courts decisions
appear to eroding this, perhaps.
jay
Tue Dec 21, 2004
mailto:[email protected]
> The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
> name, photo, number and date of birth.
> In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
> street or in a bar.
Dec 21st 2004, 9:17 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:23:14 +0100, nitram wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:31:04 +0100, Tim Challenger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:25:16 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
>>> On demand "Your papers please" while walking down the street is giving
>>> up huge personnel freedom. Can they collect this data ?
>>Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>>The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
>>name, photo, number and date of birth.
>>In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
>>street or in a bar.
>
> In addition many people have to wear ID badges at work, in UK too.
I suppose people are happy with that.
I think it's all being blown out of proportion a bit, but from what I've
gathered of the proposed system it's the centralised nature of the
databases and links that I would object to, rather than the card itself.
This registering when you move is a bit of a pain, and it normally incurs
unnecessary expense and you nearly always need to take extra time off work
for it. I have my doubts that it really hinders crime in any great way.
There're still murders and terrorists and car thieves in Germany after all.
--
Tim C.
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:31:04 +0100, Tim Challenger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:25:16 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
>>> On demand "Your papers please" while walking down the street is giving
>>> up huge personnel freedom. Can they collect this data ?
>>Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>>The ID cards of Germany and Austria doesn't have much more on it than a
>>name, photo, number and date of birth.
>>In 19 years in Germany and Austria I've never been asked for ID on the
>>street or in a bar.
>
> In addition many people have to wear ID badges at work, in UK too.
I suppose people are happy with that.
I think it's all being blown out of proportion a bit, but from what I've
gathered of the proposed system it's the centralised nature of the
databases and links that I would object to, rather than the card itself.
This registering when you move is a bit of a pain, and it normally incurs
unnecessary expense and you nearly always need to take extra time off work
for it. I have my doubts that it really hinders crime in any great way.
There're still murders and terrorists and car thieves in Germany after all.
--
Tim C.
Dec 21st 2004, 9:20 am
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 02:08:36 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
>> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>
> The act of driving is considered a privilege and requires a licence.
I meant that it is the de facto ID card. It is used for purposes over and
above the proof of having passed a driving test. It's *those* uses which I
was referring to. I believe some places issue them but without any valid
vehicle groups for this very reason.
--
Tim C.
>> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>
> The act of driving is considered a privilege and requires a licence.
I meant that it is the de facto ID card. It is used for purposes over and
above the proof of having passed a driving test. It's *those* uses which I
was referring to. I believe some places issue them but without any valid
vehicle groups for this very reason.
--
Tim C.
Dec 21st 2004, 10:36 am
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
No Spam wrote:
> "Stu" wrote:
>> I really don't know what the fuss is about. If you've got nothing
>> to hide then who cares about carrying an ID card.
> This is rather typical fascist boilerplate, isn't it? It's a popular,
> if vaccuous and totalitarian, sentiment.
Yes! In every Fascist country I've been, particularly Franco's Spain and
Duvalier's Haiti where I was denied permission to leave Port au Prince
by bus, I was told "It's for your own protection". Bull****in'shit! It's
for control over citizens. Fight it!
> "May I see your papers please? ... YOUR PAPERS!!!" Yes, it has a
> familar ring to it!
I was walking very fast in a German railroad station. I had to piss. You
know, when y'have t'piss so bad that you're afraid y'won't make it to a
proper place? Suddenly two large men were on either side of me, each
taking a bicep and said something to me in, obviously, German. I said "I
gotta piss. NOW!" They allowed me to do so before demanding my papers.
Since I was between lodgings, I happened to have my passport on me and
convinced them that I wasn't the guy "who fits [my] description".
They never showed me their papers but, then, I didn't ask to see them.
In the USA, that's the first thing they do, identify themselves as
"Police" or "Immigration" or "FBI" or something and show a badge.
>> From 1 January 2005 the Dutch government will fine people who are
>> asked for identification and can't produce it.
In Spain it was explained to me that anyone aged 16 or older who
couldn't produce papers was taken to jail.
>> The UK govt is a soft touch in that it's not even absolutely
>> necessary to carry ID.
Same in the USA. And I don't unless you want to consider a credit card
to be identification.
My license to drive lives with my passport in the trunk of the car.
After all, if I ain't drivin', I don't need a license to do so. Since
the license and passport are incompatible, I don't expect them to
produce a carnet national.
Stu <[email protected]> wrote:
> I agree with the use of them, and there are many instances nowadays
> where _some_ form of ID is required (taking flights, making hotel
> bookings, etc.)- I think most people would support a voluntary system
> of ID card.
That exists in California. They look just like licenses to drive but
have a different legend atop. They certainly are voluntary. I know of
only person who has one but, then, almost everyone I know has a license
to drive.
Frank Hucklenbroich wrote:
> In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to
> be changed
When I changed residences in Germany, I was told to go to the police
station to tell them. I didn't.
Nitram said:
> In addition many people have to wear ID badges at work, in UK too.
I needed one to get into my last place of employment. It, too, lived in
the car but not the trunk.
__________________________________________________ __________
One of (as of 2003) 751,682 residents of San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 IClast at SFbay Net
> "Stu" wrote:
>> I really don't know what the fuss is about. If you've got nothing
>> to hide then who cares about carrying an ID card.
> This is rather typical fascist boilerplate, isn't it? It's a popular,
> if vaccuous and totalitarian, sentiment.
Yes! In every Fascist country I've been, particularly Franco's Spain and
Duvalier's Haiti where I was denied permission to leave Port au Prince
by bus, I was told "It's for your own protection". Bull****in'shit! It's
for control over citizens. Fight it!
> "May I see your papers please? ... YOUR PAPERS!!!" Yes, it has a
> familar ring to it!
I was walking very fast in a German railroad station. I had to piss. You
know, when y'have t'piss so bad that you're afraid y'won't make it to a
proper place? Suddenly two large men were on either side of me, each
taking a bicep and said something to me in, obviously, German. I said "I
gotta piss. NOW!" They allowed me to do so before demanding my papers.
Since I was between lodgings, I happened to have my passport on me and
convinced them that I wasn't the guy "who fits [my] description".
They never showed me their papers but, then, I didn't ask to see them.
In the USA, that's the first thing they do, identify themselves as
"Police" or "Immigration" or "FBI" or something and show a badge.
>> From 1 January 2005 the Dutch government will fine people who are
>> asked for identification and can't produce it.
In Spain it was explained to me that anyone aged 16 or older who
couldn't produce papers was taken to jail.
>> The UK govt is a soft touch in that it's not even absolutely
>> necessary to carry ID.
Same in the USA. And I don't unless you want to consider a credit card
to be identification.
My license to drive lives with my passport in the trunk of the car.
After all, if I ain't drivin', I don't need a license to do so. Since
the license and passport are incompatible, I don't expect them to
produce a carnet national.
Stu <[email protected]> wrote:
> I agree with the use of them, and there are many instances nowadays
> where _some_ form of ID is required (taking flights, making hotel
> bookings, etc.)- I think most people would support a voluntary system
> of ID card.
That exists in California. They look just like licenses to drive but
have a different legend atop. They certainly are voluntary. I know of
only person who has one but, then, almost everyone I know has a license
to drive.
Frank Hucklenbroich wrote:
> In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to
> be changed
When I changed residences in Germany, I was told to go to the police
station to tell them. I didn't.
Nitram said:
> In addition many people have to wear ID badges at work, in UK too.
I needed one to get into my last place of employment. It, too, lived in
the car but not the trunk.
__________________________________________________ __________
One of (as of 2003) 751,682 residents of San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 IClast at SFbay Net
Dec 21st 2004, 11:30 am
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
Am Tue, 21 Dec 2004 03:36:33 -0800 schrieb Icono Clast:
> Frank Hucklenbroich wrote:
>> In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to
>> be changed
>
> When I changed residences in Germany, I was told to go to the police
> station to tell them. I didn't.
Normally it's not the police station, but something called
"Einwohnermeldeamt", which is the local register-office. If you are a
foreign national taking residence in germany, you go to the "Ausländeramt"
instead (=Immigrations. Normally the same building, but different office).
When you change adress you have to report, so they can send you your
tax-card (you need that when you take employment), voting-cards
(=invitation to elections) and stuff like that.
Then again, it's not a crime if you don't. Some people don't report, for
various reasons, like dodging parking tickets. Works only as long as you
don't take employed work (students do it often).
You can get a fine of about 20 or 40 EUR, so no big deal.
> I needed one to get into my last place of employment. It, too, lived in
> the car but not the trunk.
I wouldn't keep any papers in my car, as the risk that the car is stolen or
broken into would be too big, and too much fuss to get back a stolen
passport.
Regards,
Frank
> Frank Hucklenbroich wrote:
>> In Germany you have you current adress on it. If you move, it has to
>> be changed
>
> When I changed residences in Germany, I was told to go to the police
> station to tell them. I didn't.
Normally it's not the police station, but something called
"Einwohnermeldeamt", which is the local register-office. If you are a
foreign national taking residence in germany, you go to the "Ausländeramt"
instead (=Immigrations. Normally the same building, but different office).
When you change adress you have to report, so they can send you your
tax-card (you need that when you take employment), voting-cards
(=invitation to elections) and stuff like that.
Then again, it's not a crime if you don't. Some people don't report, for
various reasons, like dodging parking tickets. Works only as long as you
don't take employed work (students do it often).
You can get a fine of about 20 or 40 EUR, so no big deal.
> I needed one to get into my last place of employment. It, too, lived in
> the car but not the trunk.
I wouldn't keep any papers in my car, as the risk that the car is stolen or
broken into would be too big, and too much fuss to get back a stolen
passport.
Regards,
Frank
Dec 21st 2004, 11:32 am
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brits ID card crisis
Am Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:20:10 +0100 schrieb Tim Challenger:
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 02:08:36 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
>
>>> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>>
>> The act of driving is considered a privilege and requires a licence.
>
> I meant that it is the de facto ID card. It is used for purposes over and
> above the proof of having passed a driving test. It's *those* uses which I
> was referring to. I believe some places issue them but without any valid
> vehicle groups for this very reason.
...but only if you have to have a recent drivers-licence. Like here in
Germany, you don't need to renew them. There are some old folks here
driving around with the old grey licences from the 40ies ;-)
Still valid.
Mine is from 1989, think I look a little different now as well :-)
Regards,
Frank
> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 02:08:36 -0800, Go Fig wrote:
>
>>> Giving up about as much as a US cop asking to see your driving licence.
>>
>> The act of driving is considered a privilege and requires a licence.
>
> I meant that it is the de facto ID card. It is used for purposes over and
> above the proof of having passed a driving test. It's *those* uses which I
> was referring to. I believe some places issue them but without any valid
> vehicle groups for this very reason.
...but only if you have to have a recent drivers-licence. Like here in
Germany, you don't need to renew them. There are some old folks here
driving around with the old grey licences from the 40ies ;-)
Still valid.
Mine is from 1989, think I look a little different now as well :-)
Regards,
Frank