Earl Evleth

Few foreigners, particularly the Americans, understand the reality
of class structure in France. This time around it effected the French
vote.

First Yes/no vote depended heavily in income.

For incomes of less than 1000 euros a month the nos outscored the yeses
by 60 to 10%. Only in the group over 3000 euros a month was the yes
vote in the majority, 63% to 37%.

Next, only in the age group over 60 was the yes in the majority.
So the age split was strong.

As for profession, the professional and upper managerial class
voted heavily yes, 65% to 35%. The middle ranks of this
group were slightly non, 53%

The workers were 79% no.

The most important issue was the feeling that the new constitution
would worsen unemployment in France (45%) although a general feeling
of being "fed up", 40%, prevailed. As for crimping nationalism, this
is not a big issue.

One should note that recent studies of class mobility in the US reveals
that both the US and the UK are less so than on the continent, including
France. Ironically, it was the Wall Street Journal which revealed this
although I had been aware of a problem for about 10 years.

Wall Street Journal article was: Less economic upward mobility in USA
05/13/05 (than Canada or France even). The NYTimes also ran an article
series on mobility.

However, most Americans deny even the concept of "class" itself so they
don't recognize the changes going on. The French anticipate change
and try to block it if they don't go along with it.

I voted yes on the Constitution, by the way. But the overall "no" vote was
anticipated purely on the basis of class dynamics.

Earl

Miss L. Toe

"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BEC3549B.67E45%[email protected]...
    > Few foreigners, particularly the Americans, understand the reality
    > of class structure in France. This time around it effected the French
    > vote.
    > First Yes/no vote depended heavily in income.
    > For incomes of less than 1000 euros a month

How can anyone live on less than 1000 euros a month, thats only about 600
GBP.

Still I suppose they don't have Blairite levels of taxation.

Earl Evleth

On 1/06/05 12:04, in article
[email protected] s.net, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >> For incomes of less than 1000 euros a month
    >
    > How can anyone live on less than 1000 euros a month, thats only about 600
    > GBP.

It is below minium wage (SMIC) which is 7,61 €(brut) Â*
and cÃ*rresponds to an month income (35 hr week) of
1,154 euros. From this there are social charges to
be deducted (health insurance, retirement).

However, transfers are also high for the lowest income group,
about to an average of 35% of the total.

Earl

Nitram

On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:04:01 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:BEC3549B.67E45%[email protected]...
    >> Few foreigners, particularly the Americans, understand the reality
    >> of class structure in France. This time around it effected the French
    >> vote.
    >> First Yes/no vote depended heavily in income.
    >> For incomes of less than 1000 euros a month
    >How can anyone live on less than 1000 euros a month, thats only about 600
    >GBP.

Ask Mixi.

    >Still I suppose they don't have Blairite levels of taxation.

Get real. UK levels of income tax and taxes in general are amongst the
lowest in Europe.

Try not to believe all the crap that they print in the <your
newspaper>

Miss L. Toe

"nitram" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:04:01 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:BEC3549B.67E45%[email protected]...
    > >>
    > >> Few foreigners, particularly the Americans, understand the reality
    > >> of class structure in France. This time around it effected the French
    > >> vote.
    > >>
    > >> First Yes/no vote depended heavily in income.
    > >>
    > >> For incomes of less than 1000 euros a month
    > >
    > >How can anyone live on less than 1000 euros a month, thats only about 600
    > >GBP.
    > Ask Mixi.
    > >
    > >Still I suppose they don't have Blairite levels of taxation.
    > Get real. UK levels of income tax and taxes in general are amongst the
    > lowest in Europe.
    > Try not to believe all the crap that they print in the <your
    > newspaper>

He he - winding up martin about politics is more fun than playing with
Mixi - he bites every time :-)

Jordi

Miss L. Toe ha escrito:
    > >
    > > First Yes/no vote depended heavily in income.
    > >
    > > For incomes of less than 1000 euros a month
    > How can anyone live on less than 1000 euros a month, thats only about 600
    > GBP.
    >

It's the norm in Spain, but yes, we're talking France here :)

J.

Nitram

On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:32:52 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >"nitram" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected].. .
    >> On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:04:01 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> >news:BEC3549B.67E45%[email protected]...
    >> >>
    >> >> Few foreigners, particularly the Americans, understand the reality
    >> >> of class structure in France. This time around it effected the French
    >> >> vote.
    >> >>
    >> >> First Yes/no vote depended heavily in income.
    >> >>
    >> >> For incomes of less than 1000 euros a month
    >> >
    >> >How can anyone live on less than 1000 euros a month, thats only about 600
    >> >GBP.
    >> Ask Mixi.
    >> >
    >> >Still I suppose they don't have Blairite levels of taxation.
    >> Get real. UK levels of income tax and taxes in general are amongst the
    >> lowest in Europe.
    >> Try not to believe all the crap that they print in the <your
    >> newspaper>
    >He he - winding up martin about politics is more fun than playing with
    >Mixi - he bites every time :-)

Shit! I thought I was doing the winding up. :-)

Mixi goes digital
http://home.tiscali.be/nelekes/Neja4/photographer.jpg

Magda

On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:32:52 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... "nitram" <[email protected]> wrote in message
... news:[email protected]...

... >
... > Get real. UK levels of income tax and taxes in general are amongst the
... > lowest in Europe.
... >
... > Try not to believe all the crap that they print in the <your
... > newspaper>
... >
...
... He he - winding up martin about politics is more fun than playing with
... Mixi - he bites every time :-)

Well done, Missy ! :)

jbk

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:03:39 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Few foreigners, particularly the Americans, understand the reality
    >of class structure in France. This time around it effected the French
    >vote.

That's because no one gets one shit about them.

    >First Yes/no vote depended heavily in income.
    >For incomes of less than 1000 euros a month the nos outscored the yeses
    >by 60 to 10%. Only in the group over 3000 euros a month was the yes
    >vote in the majority, 63% to 37%.

Since we know that you leech off of both the US and French retirement
systems, we know how you voted (twice) dont' we?

    >Next, only in the age group over 60 was the yes in the majority.
    >So the age split was strong.s

Again, we know. But could care less.

    >As for profession, the professional and upper managerial class
    >voted heavily yes, 65% to 35%. The middle ranks of this
    >group were slightly non, 53%

Well, since you're hardly professional, maybe you did vote no.

    >The workers were 79% no.

Leaves you out again, since you are leeching off of two retirement
systems.

    >The most important issue was the feeling that the new constitution
    >would worsen unemployment in France (45%) although a general feeling
    >of being "fed up", 40%, prevailed. As for crimping nationalism, this
    >is not a big issue.

Can't make yours worse can it, since you are leeching off two
retirement systems?

    >One should note that recent studies of class mobility in the US reveals
    >that both the US and the UK are less so than on the continent, including
    >France. Ironically, it was the Wall Street Journal which revealed this
    >although I had been aware of a problem for about 10 years.

You're aware that you've had your head up your ass for 10 years? Now
that is a revelation.

    >Wall Street Journal article was: Less economic upward mobility in USA
    >05/13/05 (than Canada or France even). The NYTimes also ran an article
    >series on mobility.

Where in Europe, with its ridiculous unemployment rates, the mobility
is all downward.

    >However, most Americans deny even the concept of "class" itself so they
    >don't recognize the changes going on. The French anticipate change
    >and try to block it if they don't go along with it.

That's because we're not a bunch of effete snobs like you. And, (this
may be a surprise for you) the French are against everything all the
time.

    >I voted yes on the Constitution, by the way. But the overall "no" vote was
    >anticipated purely on the basis of class dynamics.

Ah, just as anticipated for this effete snob!!

jbk

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:18:19 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 1/06/05 12:04, in article
    >[email protected] ws.net, "Miss L. Toe"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> For incomes of less than 1000 euros a month
    >>
    >> How can anyone live on less than 1000 euros a month, thats only about 600
    >> GBP.
    >It is below minium wage (SMIC) which is 7,61 €(brut) *
    >and càrresponds to an month income (35 hr week) of
    >1,154 euros. From this there are social charges to
    >be deducted (health insurance, retirement).
    >However, transfers are also high for the lowest income group,
    >about to an average of 35% of the total.

Tell us all how much you are ripping off the US social security system
and the French system each month fatass.

Runge

Lol !!!
no, on second thoughts, not laughable

"Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
BEC3549B.67E45%[email protected]...
    > Few foreigners, particularly the Americans, understand the reality
    > of class structure in France. This time around it effected the French
    > vote.
    > First Yes/no vote depended heavily in income.
    > For incomes of less than 1000 euros a month the nos outscored the yeses
    > by 60 to 10%. Only in the group over 3000 euros a month was the yes
    > vote in the majority, 63% to 37%.
    > Next, only in the age group over 60 was the yes in the majority.
    > So the age split was strong.
    > As for profession, the professional and upper managerial class
    > voted heavily yes, 65% to 35%. The middle ranks of this
    > group were slightly non, 53%
    > The workers were 79% no.
    > The most important issue was the feeling that the new constitution
    > would worsen unemployment in France (45%) although a general feeling
    > of being "fed up", 40%, prevailed. As for crimping nationalism, this
    > is not a big issue.
    > One should note that recent studies of class mobility in the US reveals
    > that both the US and the UK are less so than on the continent, including
    > France. Ironically, it was the Wall Street Journal which revealed this
    > although I had been aware of a problem for about 10 years.
    > Wall Street Journal article was: Less economic upward mobility in USA
    > 05/13/05 (than Canada or France even). The NYTimes also ran an article
    > series on mobility.
    > However, most Americans deny even the concept of "class" itself so they
    > don't recognize the changes going on. The French anticipate change
    > and try to block it if they don't go along with it.
    > I voted yes on the Constitution, by the way. But the overall "no" vote was
    > anticipated purely on the basis of class dynamics.
    > Earl
    >