Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
Jun 21st 2003, 3:15 am
#76
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
Marie Lewis wrote:
> Hatunen writes
>> And when my wallet was picked from my pocket in Paris I lost nohting but
>> a small amount of my time; none of the some $600 in subsequent charges to
>> my Visa card was paid by me.
> That's all right, then. Never mind about who eventually pays.
If merchants accepted the card number without adequately verifying the
cardholder's identity, then then they pay. Fair enough.
In my case - where a duplicate card was made, presumably by scanning the
magnetic strip - I am guessing maybe the bank paid.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
> Hatunen writes
>> And when my wallet was picked from my pocket in Paris I lost nohting but
>> a small amount of my time; none of the some $600 in subsequent charges to
>> my Visa card was paid by me.
> That's all right, then. Never mind about who eventually pays.
If merchants accepted the card number without adequately verifying the
cardholder's identity, then then they pay. Fair enough.
In my case - where a duplicate card was made, presumably by scanning the
magnetic strip - I am guessing maybe the bank paid.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Jun 21st 2003, 3:49 am
#77
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:29:52 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>Mark Kelly wrote:
>> Actually I should go as far to say that "PPL" who only think the card
>> is the answer to all thing should not leave home without adult
>> supervision. For starters most banks charge fees to use your card
>> aboard
>Mine doesn't.
luckly you but I am assuming you are from America by other sentence a
lot of banks charge everything there. But for example LLOYDS TSB in
UK charge 2.75% to take money out from an ATM aboard.
>> and the bank the ATM machine belongs to might charge a fee as
>> well.
>Where? Other than non-bank, convenience-store or bar-rail ATMs, I can think
>of only one country in which this happens (and it's not the USA).
quite a few places, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc..]
>> Hence can quite easily make it the most expensive way possible. As a study
>> in the Daily Mail has shown recently. Also not a lot of places do not
>> charge comission on currency
>No, they just provide really bad exchange rates, which is the same thing.
>"No commission" is a tax on stupid people.
Again wrong, for example near Victoria coach station in London and in
Oman you can get "MARKET" rate with no comission!! yes that is right
no comission and no bad exchange rate. They make their profit on the
spread between buying and selling.
>> and it give you safe of mind that you know you got the right curreny..
>When has an ATM given someone the wrong currency?
Ok one straight away, Russia machines have $ and Roubles. But I
wasn't talking about machine giving the wrong currency. I was talking
about you land at airport and only have $ when you need say euros and
the ATM is broken. Or you use the ATM and they give you 50/100 euro
notes, you take a taxi which only cost 5 euros and guess what "he
doesn't have change."
>miguel
>--
>Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
>Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
>Mark Kelly wrote:
>> Actually I should go as far to say that "PPL" who only think the card
>> is the answer to all thing should not leave home without adult
>> supervision. For starters most banks charge fees to use your card
>> aboard
>Mine doesn't.
luckly you but I am assuming you are from America by other sentence a
lot of banks charge everything there. But for example LLOYDS TSB in
UK charge 2.75% to take money out from an ATM aboard.
>> and the bank the ATM machine belongs to might charge a fee as
>> well.
>Where? Other than non-bank, convenience-store or bar-rail ATMs, I can think
>of only one country in which this happens (and it's not the USA).
quite a few places, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc..]
>> Hence can quite easily make it the most expensive way possible. As a study
>> in the Daily Mail has shown recently. Also not a lot of places do not
>> charge comission on currency
>No, they just provide really bad exchange rates, which is the same thing.
>"No commission" is a tax on stupid people.
Again wrong, for example near Victoria coach station in London and in
Oman you can get "MARKET" rate with no comission!! yes that is right
no comission and no bad exchange rate. They make their profit on the
spread between buying and selling.
>> and it give you safe of mind that you know you got the right curreny..
>When has an ATM given someone the wrong currency?
Ok one straight away, Russia machines have $ and Roubles. But I
wasn't talking about machine giving the wrong currency. I was talking
about you land at airport and only have $ when you need say euros and
the ATM is broken. Or you use the ATM and they give you 50/100 euro
notes, you take a taxi which only cost 5 euros and guess what "he
doesn't have change."
>miguel
>--
>Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
>Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Jun 21st 2003, 3:56 am
#78
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:54:53 +0100, Marie Lewis
wrote:
>In article , Hatunen
> writes
>>And when my wallet was picked from my pocket in Paris I lost
>>nohting but a small amount of my time; none of the some $600 in
>>subsequent charges to my Visa card was paid by me.
>That's all right, then. Never mind about who eventually pays.
You mean the merchants who were stupid enough to accept the card
without any verification? They are, after all, the ones who will
pay. Why does that seem to bother you?
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
wrote:
>In article , Hatunen
> writes
>>And when my wallet was picked from my pocket in Paris I lost
>>nohting but a small amount of my time; none of the some $600 in
>>subsequent charges to my Visa card was paid by me.
>That's all right, then. Never mind about who eventually pays.
You mean the merchants who were stupid enough to accept the card
without any verification? They are, after all, the ones who will
pay. Why does that seem to bother you?
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Jun 21st 2003, 4:04 am
#79
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
In article , Miguel Cruz
writes
>If merchants accepted the card number without adequately verifying the
>cardholder's identity, then then they pay. Fair enough.
Yes, but in the end, they have to make profits so the public pays, one
way or another.
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>If merchants accepted the card number without adequately verifying the
>cardholder's identity, then then they pay. Fair enough.
Yes, but in the end, they have to make profits so the public pays, one
way or another.
--
Marie Lewis
Jun 21st 2003, 4:08 am
#80
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:16:37 GMT,
marko"_R*E*M*O*V*E*T*H*I*S*P*A*R*T_"@nojunk.ntlwor ld.com (Mark
Kelly) wrote:
>Ok I give you a couple of links!!
>http://www.rbos.co.uk/Personal_Finan...ds/default.htm
>http://www.alliance-leicester.co.uk/...=premier-rates
>http://www.personal.barclays.co.uk/B..._self&site=pfs
>I can go on, but I won't brother, they are what call "hidden charges"
>which the daily mail explain and after "everything" work out they are
>actually quite expensive.
>of course (as the article pointed out) and I know myself there are
>banks for example in UK "nationwide" which does not charge these fees
>nor conversion fees. Hence in those cases using the card might be the
>best than. But to "blanket" recommend card to everyone saying it is
>cheapest when in quite a few cases it is not, is not good. And also
>as other ppl pointed out, you never know what will happen, like what
>happens if your wallet got stolen? you are stuck without a card.
>Travel cheques they get replace but normally (again there are
>expections) they are sent to the home address.)
I can't sleak to what happens when non-American cards are used,
but I will again iterate: I have never, ever, been charged an ATM
fee by a European bank.
The conversion rate is set by the system, e.g., Visa and
Mastercard, whgo own the major ATM systems, not the European bank
where I use my card. The system rate hovers around 1%. Some
American banks are now charege and extra percent or two, but not
all, nor does my credit union.
Note that if you are an American and you withdraw the equivalent
of, say, $200, and your bank charges you $2, that is a added 1%,
and this is trivial compared to the conversion rates charged when
directly converting money.
I will also note that because my ATM cards require a PIN, no
charges whatsoever were made to either when my wallet was stolen.
And, as I ntoed elsewhere, the thieves managed to add some $600
in charges to my Visa card, which I did not have to pay a cent
of.
None of these comments apply to the so-called debit cards which
bear Visa and Mastercard logos; because these can be used like
credit cards in a manner not requiring a PIN, I consider them
particlarly dangerous to hold since the funds come directly out
of your account.
My Visa card issuer has recently added a couple of percent to the
system conversion rate and I am thinking about changing cards.
Prior to this little bit of sleight-of-hand I was only paying
about 1% on the standard interbank conversion rate when using my
credit card.
>in fact I will post the Daily Mail article now
>Copyright 2003 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
> DAILY MAIL (London)
I gather you don't believe in copyrights.
In any case, do take note that the situation for holders of
American-issued ATM and credit cards is a bit different than that
for Brit-issued cards.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
marko"_R*E*M*O*V*E*T*H*I*S*P*A*R*T_"@nojunk.ntlwor ld.com (Mark
Kelly) wrote:
>Ok I give you a couple of links!!
>http://www.rbos.co.uk/Personal_Finan...ds/default.htm
>http://www.alliance-leicester.co.uk/...=premier-rates
>http://www.personal.barclays.co.uk/B..._self&site=pfs
>I can go on, but I won't brother, they are what call "hidden charges"
>which the daily mail explain and after "everything" work out they are
>actually quite expensive.
>of course (as the article pointed out) and I know myself there are
>banks for example in UK "nationwide" which does not charge these fees
>nor conversion fees. Hence in those cases using the card might be the
>best than. But to "blanket" recommend card to everyone saying it is
>cheapest when in quite a few cases it is not, is not good. And also
>as other ppl pointed out, you never know what will happen, like what
>happens if your wallet got stolen? you are stuck without a card.
>Travel cheques they get replace but normally (again there are
>expections) they are sent to the home address.)
I can't sleak to what happens when non-American cards are used,
but I will again iterate: I have never, ever, been charged an ATM
fee by a European bank.
The conversion rate is set by the system, e.g., Visa and
Mastercard, whgo own the major ATM systems, not the European bank
where I use my card. The system rate hovers around 1%. Some
American banks are now charege and extra percent or two, but not
all, nor does my credit union.
Note that if you are an American and you withdraw the equivalent
of, say, $200, and your bank charges you $2, that is a added 1%,
and this is trivial compared to the conversion rates charged when
directly converting money.
I will also note that because my ATM cards require a PIN, no
charges whatsoever were made to either when my wallet was stolen.
And, as I ntoed elsewhere, the thieves managed to add some $600
in charges to my Visa card, which I did not have to pay a cent
of.
None of these comments apply to the so-called debit cards which
bear Visa and Mastercard logos; because these can be used like
credit cards in a manner not requiring a PIN, I consider them
particlarly dangerous to hold since the funds come directly out
of your account.
My Visa card issuer has recently added a couple of percent to the
system conversion rate and I am thinking about changing cards.
Prior to this little bit of sleight-of-hand I was only paying
about 1% on the standard interbank conversion rate when using my
credit card.
>in fact I will post the Daily Mail article now
>Copyright 2003 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
> DAILY MAIL (London)
I gather you don't believe in copyrights.
In any case, do take note that the situation for holders of
American-issued ATM and credit cards is a bit different than that
for Brit-issued cards.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Jun 21st 2003, 4:13 am
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:54:27 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
wrote:
>Marie Lewis wrote:
>> Miguel Cruz writes
>>> If merchants accepted the card number without adequately verifying the
>>> cardholder's identity, then then they pay. Fair enough.
>> Yes, but in the end, they have to make profits so the public pays, one
>> way or another.
>That's a side-effect of the existence of criminals and fraudsters.
And of people who, in effect, receive or honor stolen goods. If a
merchant is foolish enough to do this to the point where his
prices go up, I assume standard market forces will assure the
customers go to other merchants.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
wrote:
>Marie Lewis wrote:
>> Miguel Cruz writes
>>> If merchants accepted the card number without adequately verifying the
>>> cardholder's identity, then then they pay. Fair enough.
>> Yes, but in the end, they have to make profits so the public pays, one
>> way or another.
>That's a side-effect of the existence of criminals and fraudsters.
And of people who, in effect, receive or honor stolen goods. If a
merchant is foolish enough to do this to the point where his
prices go up, I assume standard market forces will assure the
customers go to other merchants.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Jun 21st 2003, 4:16 am
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
On 20 Jun 2003 19:38:34 GMT, greg byshenk
wrote:
>marko"_R*E*M*O*V*E*T*H*I*S*P*A*R*T_"@nojunk.ntlwo rld.com (Mark Kelly) wrote:
>> greg byshenk wrote:
>
>> >I will note that it doesn't matter at all to me if someone chooses
>> >to bring "local" currency from home when they go on holiday. I
>> >_don't_, but it's their holiday, after all. What does irritate me
>> >are the ridiculous justifications some people try to make for doing
>> >so, such as yours above. Your statement attempted to imply dreadful
>> >consequences if one chooses not to carry "local" currency, on the
>> >basis of someone who "had forgotten his number"! I suggest instead
>> >that perhaps persons such as this should not be leaving home without
>> >adult supervision.
>
>> Actually I should go as far to say that "PPL" who only think the card
>> is the answer to all thing should not leave home without adult
>> supervision. For starters most banks charge fees to use your card
>> aboard and the bank the ATM machine belongs to might charge a fee as
>> well. Hence can quite easily make it the most expensive way possible.
>> As a study in the Daily Mail has shown recently. Also not a lot of
>> places do not charge comission on currency, and it give you safe of
>> mind that you know you got the right curreny..
>I could be more long-winded, but it would probably be a waste of time,
>so I'll just note that (apart from the point re the Daily Mail, which
>I don't read and so cannot comment on), _everything_ you've written
>is wrong (at least in part, if not wholly).
Wrong?
Ok I give you a couple of links!!
http://www.rbos.co.uk/Personal_Finan...ds/default.htm
http://www.alliance-leicester.co.uk/...=premier-rates
http://www.personal.barclays.co.uk/B..._self&site=pfs
I can go on, but I won't brother, they are what call "hidden charges"
which the daily mail explain and after "everything" work out they are
actually quite expensive.
of course (as the article pointed out) and I know myself there are
banks for example in UK "nationwide" which does not charge these fees
nor conversion fees. Hence in those cases using the card might be the
best than. But to "blanket" recommend card to everyone saying it is
cheapest when in quite a few cases it is not, is not good. And also
as other ppl pointed out, you never know what will happen, like what
happens if your wallet got stolen? you are stuck without a card.
Travel cheques they get replace but normally (again there are
expections) they are sent to the home address.)
in fact I will post the Daily Mail article now
:
Copyright 2003 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
DAILY MAIL (London)
May 7, 2003
SECTION: Pg. 44
LENGTH: 797 words
HEADLINE: How to save on holiday money; MoneyMail
BYLINE: Liz Phillips
BODY:
BEFORE you set off on holiday this year, make sure you have the
right credit card in your pocket. Credit cards charge different fees
when you use them abroad, which makes a big difference to your bill.
Getting the best deal saves a significant amount when you consider
we spent GBP 30 billion on holiday last year. As holidaymakers, we
spend twice as much on our credit and debit cards as we do in cash,
but we find out the exchange rate used only when our statement comes
in. It's also important to choose the right outlet when buying holiday
money because commission can vary hugely. Money Mail surveyed some of
the biggest players in the holiday money market and came up with
some interesting results.
For example, if you had a meal out in Europe costing 100 euros, it
could cost anything from GBP 68.10 if you paid on a Nationwide
credit card to GBP 71.59 using a NatWest card. Similarly, a $ 100
meal in the U.S. might cost from GBP 61.50 with Nationwide to GBP
65.16 on a Lloyds TSB Mastercard. Multiply that by the amount of
spending on a two-week touring holiday and you could be close to GBP
100 out of pocket. It's also worth shopping around before buying your
foreign currency. The difference in the exchange rate means that GBP
100 would get you 132.89 euros at Thomas Cook but 136.19 euros at
NatWest.
But the best value comes from commission-free outlets. You will pay
GBP 3 on average in commission when changing GBP 100.
But Lloyds TSB, post offices and Marks & Spencer charge no commission.
As our table shows, this makes a difference of around five euros or
$ 5 per GBP 100 worth of currency.
You can get $ 154.80 from Marks & Spencer for your GBP 100 compared
with $ 148.41 from Thomas Cook and $ 149.18 at HSBC. These are the
exact figures comparing like with like, but in reality bureaux de
change give you the nearest rounded sum when buying currency.
Some travel agencies, including some Thomas Cook branches, will
waive the commission if you book a holiday with them. If you still
have old currency for countries which have converted to the euro, you
can change it at the national central banks in the country for free.
You can make sure you get the best rate available on cards by
avoiding the companies that add a handling fee, ranging from 2 pc
to 2.75 pc, to the exchange rate from Mastercard and Visa.
Nationwide Building Society and Liverpool Victoria are the only
credit card issuers who do not load their exchange rate, saving you
GBP 3 when spending $ 100, as our table shows.
There are also charges when you withdraw money from foreign bank
machines with your card. Credit cards all add a cash handling fee of
around 1.5 pc to 2.5 pc, with a typical minimum charge of GBP
2.
This will seriously dent the amount you get if you are taking out
only small amounts. Again, Nationwide is the exception. It charges
0.5 pc with a 50p minimum, but this is doubling from June 1 to 1 pc
and GBP 1.
Debit cards, which take money directly from your bank account, also
charge a fee, typically 1.5 pc (GBP 1.50 minimum) when used at ATMs
overseas, apart from Nationwide's Flexaccount debit card. Barclays's
debit card has no handling fee when used at foreign banks where it has
an arrangement, including Bank of America, BNP Paribas in France and
Deutsche Bank in Germany.
STUDENT Stacey Knight (above), 21, from Bournemouth, took out a
Liverpool Victoria Visa card before a trip to Turkey. 'I looked on
the internet to find the best credit card to use abroad. It had a low
rate at the time, and I noticed there weren't any extra charges when
paying for things overseas,' she says. 'I was surprised how good the
exchange rate was compared to the tourist rates available in Turkey. I
took GBP 100 in Turkish lira and saved the card for bigger purchases.
I got the lira from the post office because they don't charge any
commission. As a student you have to watch every penny.'
HOW MUCH FOREIGN CASH CAN YOU BUY FOR GBP 100?
COMPANY EURO DOLLAR
Barclays 133.25 150.04
HSBC 133.66 149.18
LloydsTSB 138.00 153.90
Marks & Spencer 138.00 154.80
NatWest 136.19 150.43
Post Office 137.64 153.82
RBS 136.19 150.43
Thomas Cook 132.89 148.41
AND WHAT A CREDIT CARD PURCHASE WILL COST
COMPANY 100EURO $ 100
American Express GBP 70.61 GBP 64.60
Barclaycard GBP 71.43 GBP 64.94
(V) HSBC GBP 71.64 GBP 64.77
Liverpool Victoria GBP 69.67 GBP 63.01
LloydsTSB GBP 71.23 GBP 65.16
Nationwide GBP 68.10 GBP 61.50
NatWest GBP 71.59 (V) GBP 64.72 (V)
GBP 70.70 (M) GBP 64.67 (M)
RBS GBP 71.52 (V) GBP 64.66 (V)
GBP 70.63 (M) GBP 64.61 (M)
RBS = Royal Bank of Scotland; V = Visa; M = Mastercard. Rates as at
30/4/03
wrote:
>marko"_R*E*M*O*V*E*T*H*I*S*P*A*R*T_"@nojunk.ntlwo rld.com (Mark Kelly) wrote:
>> greg byshenk wrote:
>
>> >I will note that it doesn't matter at all to me if someone chooses
>> >to bring "local" currency from home when they go on holiday. I
>> >_don't_, but it's their holiday, after all. What does irritate me
>> >are the ridiculous justifications some people try to make for doing
>> >so, such as yours above. Your statement attempted to imply dreadful
>> >consequences if one chooses not to carry "local" currency, on the
>> >basis of someone who "had forgotten his number"! I suggest instead
>> >that perhaps persons such as this should not be leaving home without
>> >adult supervision.
>
>> Actually I should go as far to say that "PPL" who only think the card
>> is the answer to all thing should not leave home without adult
>> supervision. For starters most banks charge fees to use your card
>> aboard and the bank the ATM machine belongs to might charge a fee as
>> well. Hence can quite easily make it the most expensive way possible.
>> As a study in the Daily Mail has shown recently. Also not a lot of
>> places do not charge comission on currency, and it give you safe of
>> mind that you know you got the right curreny..
>I could be more long-winded, but it would probably be a waste of time,
>so I'll just note that (apart from the point re the Daily Mail, which
>I don't read and so cannot comment on), _everything_ you've written
>is wrong (at least in part, if not wholly).
Wrong?
Ok I give you a couple of links!!
http://www.rbos.co.uk/Personal_Finan...ds/default.htm
http://www.alliance-leicester.co.uk/...=premier-rates
http://www.personal.barclays.co.uk/B..._self&site=pfs
I can go on, but I won't brother, they are what call "hidden charges"
which the daily mail explain and after "everything" work out they are
actually quite expensive.
of course (as the article pointed out) and I know myself there are
banks for example in UK "nationwide" which does not charge these fees
nor conversion fees. Hence in those cases using the card might be the
best than. But to "blanket" recommend card to everyone saying it is
cheapest when in quite a few cases it is not, is not good. And also
as other ppl pointed out, you never know what will happen, like what
happens if your wallet got stolen? you are stuck without a card.
Travel cheques they get replace but normally (again there are
expections) they are sent to the home address.)
in fact I will post the Daily Mail article now
:
Copyright 2003 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
DAILY MAIL (London)
May 7, 2003
SECTION: Pg. 44
LENGTH: 797 words
HEADLINE: How to save on holiday money; MoneyMail
BYLINE: Liz Phillips
BODY:
BEFORE you set off on holiday this year, make sure you have the
right credit card in your pocket. Credit cards charge different fees
when you use them abroad, which makes a big difference to your bill.
Getting the best deal saves a significant amount when you consider
we spent GBP 30 billion on holiday last year. As holidaymakers, we
spend twice as much on our credit and debit cards as we do in cash,
but we find out the exchange rate used only when our statement comes
in. It's also important to choose the right outlet when buying holiday
money because commission can vary hugely. Money Mail surveyed some of
the biggest players in the holiday money market and came up with
some interesting results.
For example, if you had a meal out in Europe costing 100 euros, it
could cost anything from GBP 68.10 if you paid on a Nationwide
credit card to GBP 71.59 using a NatWest card. Similarly, a $ 100
meal in the U.S. might cost from GBP 61.50 with Nationwide to GBP
65.16 on a Lloyds TSB Mastercard. Multiply that by the amount of
spending on a two-week touring holiday and you could be close to GBP
100 out of pocket. It's also worth shopping around before buying your
foreign currency. The difference in the exchange rate means that GBP
100 would get you 132.89 euros at Thomas Cook but 136.19 euros at
NatWest.
But the best value comes from commission-free outlets. You will pay
GBP 3 on average in commission when changing GBP 100.
But Lloyds TSB, post offices and Marks & Spencer charge no commission.
As our table shows, this makes a difference of around five euros or
$ 5 per GBP 100 worth of currency.
You can get $ 154.80 from Marks & Spencer for your GBP 100 compared
with $ 148.41 from Thomas Cook and $ 149.18 at HSBC. These are the
exact figures comparing like with like, but in reality bureaux de
change give you the nearest rounded sum when buying currency.
Some travel agencies, including some Thomas Cook branches, will
waive the commission if you book a holiday with them. If you still
have old currency for countries which have converted to the euro, you
can change it at the national central banks in the country for free.
You can make sure you get the best rate available on cards by
avoiding the companies that add a handling fee, ranging from 2 pc
to 2.75 pc, to the exchange rate from Mastercard and Visa.
Nationwide Building Society and Liverpool Victoria are the only
credit card issuers who do not load their exchange rate, saving you
GBP 3 when spending $ 100, as our table shows.
There are also charges when you withdraw money from foreign bank
machines with your card. Credit cards all add a cash handling fee of
around 1.5 pc to 2.5 pc, with a typical minimum charge of GBP
2.
This will seriously dent the amount you get if you are taking out
only small amounts. Again, Nationwide is the exception. It charges
0.5 pc with a 50p minimum, but this is doubling from June 1 to 1 pc
and GBP 1.
Debit cards, which take money directly from your bank account, also
charge a fee, typically 1.5 pc (GBP 1.50 minimum) when used at ATMs
overseas, apart from Nationwide's Flexaccount debit card. Barclays's
debit card has no handling fee when used at foreign banks where it has
an arrangement, including Bank of America, BNP Paribas in France and
Deutsche Bank in Germany.
STUDENT Stacey Knight (above), 21, from Bournemouth, took out a
Liverpool Victoria Visa card before a trip to Turkey. 'I looked on
the internet to find the best credit card to use abroad. It had a low
rate at the time, and I noticed there weren't any extra charges when
paying for things overseas,' she says. 'I was surprised how good the
exchange rate was compared to the tourist rates available in Turkey. I
took GBP 100 in Turkish lira and saved the card for bigger purchases.
I got the lira from the post office because they don't charge any
commission. As a student you have to watch every penny.'
HOW MUCH FOREIGN CASH CAN YOU BUY FOR GBP 100?
COMPANY EURO DOLLAR
Barclays 133.25 150.04
HSBC 133.66 149.18
LloydsTSB 138.00 153.90
Marks & Spencer 138.00 154.80
NatWest 136.19 150.43
Post Office 137.64 153.82
RBS 136.19 150.43
Thomas Cook 132.89 148.41
AND WHAT A CREDIT CARD PURCHASE WILL COST
COMPANY 100EURO $ 100
American Express GBP 70.61 GBP 64.60
Barclaycard GBP 71.43 GBP 64.94
(V) HSBC GBP 71.64 GBP 64.77
Liverpool Victoria GBP 69.67 GBP 63.01
LloydsTSB GBP 71.23 GBP 65.16
Nationwide GBP 68.10 GBP 61.50
NatWest GBP 71.59 (V) GBP 64.72 (V)
GBP 70.70 (M) GBP 64.67 (M)
RBS GBP 71.52 (V) GBP 64.66 (V)
GBP 70.63 (M) GBP 64.61 (M)
RBS = Royal Bank of Scotland; V = Visa; M = Mastercard. Rates as at
30/4/03
Jun 21st 2003, 4:23 am
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
marko"_R*E*M*O*V*E*T*H*I*S*P*A*R*T_"@nojunk.ntlwor ld.com (Mark Kelly) wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:29:52 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
> >Mark Kelly wrote:
> >> Actually I should go as far to say that "PPL" who only think the card
> >> is the answer to all thing should not leave home without adult
> >> supervision. For starters most banks charge fees to use your card
> >> aboard
> >Mine doesn't.
> luckly you but I am assuming you are from America by other sentence a
> lot of banks charge everything there. But for example LLOYDS TSB in
> UK charge 2.75% to take money out from an ATM aboard.
I assume you mean "abroad"...? I have seen cash machines "aboard"
gambling boats, and they often charge extra, but that seems to be a
special case.
FWIW, I believe that some banks in the US charge exhorbitant fees for
use of certain cash machines. But if that is the case, then the answer
is simple: if a bank is ripping you off, change banks. Some banks
charge no fees, and others charge minimal fees (along the lines of USD1
or EUR1 per withdrawal).
> >> and the bank the ATM machine belongs to might charge a fee as
> >> well.
> >Where? Other than non-bank, convenience-store or bar-rail ATMs, I can think
> >of only one country in which this happens (and it's not the USA).
> quite a few places, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc..]
I have used bank machines at least in Italy (of those on your list),
and there was _not_ a charge from the bank owning the machine.
> >> Hence can quite easily make it the most expensive way possible. As a study
> >> in the Daily Mail has shown recently. Also not a lot of places do not
> >> charge comission on currency
> >No, they just provide really bad exchange rates, which is the same thing.
> >"No commission" is a tax on stupid people.
> Again wrong, for example near Victoria coach station in London and in
> Oman you can get "MARKET" rate with no comission!! yes that is right
> no comission and no bad exchange rate. They make their profit on the
> spread between buying and selling.
Precisely. That "spread between the buying and selling" (sometimes as
much as 10%!) _is_ the "really bad exchange rates". If there is a 10%
spread, then you are paying something on the order of 5% over the
interbank rate, which is obscene.
> >> and it give you safe of mind that you know you got the right curreny..
> >When has an ATM given someone the wrong currency?
> Ok one straight away, Russia machines have $ and Roubles. But I
> wasn't talking about machine giving the wrong currency. I was talking
> about you land at airport and only have $ when you need say euros and
> the ATM is broken. Or you use the ATM and they give you 50/100 euro
> notes, you take a taxi which only cost 5 euros and guess what "he
> doesn't have change."
If you happen to arrive at the airport and "the ATM is broken" (I don't
recall ever arriving at an international airport with only one cash
machine, but we'll run with that for now), then you can visit a bureau
de change at that airport, where the rates are unlikely to be much
worse than they were in your home country. IOW, the "worst case"
scenario for using one's debit card is more or less equivalent to the
"best case" for exchanging currency before you leave.
Additionally, should it be the case that one gets only "50/100 euro
notes" (I've never recieved a 100 euro note from a bank machine, but
we'll run with that for now), then one hires a taxi and gets change
at one's hotel. Alternatively, one buys a coffee or a soda at the
airport, and -- voila! -- instant change.
Your supposed problems are imaginary.
--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:29:52 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
> >Mark Kelly wrote:
> >> Actually I should go as far to say that "PPL" who only think the card
> >> is the answer to all thing should not leave home without adult
> >> supervision. For starters most banks charge fees to use your card
> >> aboard
> >Mine doesn't.
> luckly you but I am assuming you are from America by other sentence a
> lot of banks charge everything there. But for example LLOYDS TSB in
> UK charge 2.75% to take money out from an ATM aboard.
I assume you mean "abroad"...? I have seen cash machines "aboard"
gambling boats, and they often charge extra, but that seems to be a
special case.
FWIW, I believe that some banks in the US charge exhorbitant fees for
use of certain cash machines. But if that is the case, then the answer
is simple: if a bank is ripping you off, change banks. Some banks
charge no fees, and others charge minimal fees (along the lines of USD1
or EUR1 per withdrawal).
> >> and the bank the ATM machine belongs to might charge a fee as
> >> well.
> >Where? Other than non-bank, convenience-store or bar-rail ATMs, I can think
> >of only one country in which this happens (and it's not the USA).
> quite a few places, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc..]
I have used bank machines at least in Italy (of those on your list),
and there was _not_ a charge from the bank owning the machine.
> >> Hence can quite easily make it the most expensive way possible. As a study
> >> in the Daily Mail has shown recently. Also not a lot of places do not
> >> charge comission on currency
> >No, they just provide really bad exchange rates, which is the same thing.
> >"No commission" is a tax on stupid people.
> Again wrong, for example near Victoria coach station in London and in
> Oman you can get "MARKET" rate with no comission!! yes that is right
> no comission and no bad exchange rate. They make their profit on the
> spread between buying and selling.
Precisely. That "spread between the buying and selling" (sometimes as
much as 10%!) _is_ the "really bad exchange rates". If there is a 10%
spread, then you are paying something on the order of 5% over the
interbank rate, which is obscene.
> >> and it give you safe of mind that you know you got the right curreny..
> >When has an ATM given someone the wrong currency?
> Ok one straight away, Russia machines have $ and Roubles. But I
> wasn't talking about machine giving the wrong currency. I was talking
> about you land at airport and only have $ when you need say euros and
> the ATM is broken. Or you use the ATM and they give you 50/100 euro
> notes, you take a taxi which only cost 5 euros and guess what "he
> doesn't have change."
If you happen to arrive at the airport and "the ATM is broken" (I don't
recall ever arriving at an international airport with only one cash
machine, but we'll run with that for now), then you can visit a bureau
de change at that airport, where the rates are unlikely to be much
worse than they were in your home country. IOW, the "worst case"
scenario for using one's debit card is more or less equivalent to the
"best case" for exchanging currency before you leave.
Additionally, should it be the case that one gets only "50/100 euro
notes" (I've never recieved a 100 euro note from a bank machine, but
we'll run with that for now), then one hires a taxi and gets change
at one's hotel. Alternatively, one buys a coffee or a soda at the
airport, and -- voila! -- instant change.
Your supposed problems are imaginary.
--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?
Jun 21st 2003, 4:46 am
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
Mark Kelly wrote:
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>> Mine doesn't.
> luckly you but I am assuming you are from America by other sentence a
> lot of banks charge everything there. But for example LLOYDS TSB in
> UK charge 2.75% to take money out from an ATM aboard.
So switch to a better bank. People have frequently pointed out better deals
from UK outfits in this newsgroup.
>> Where? Other than non-bank, convenience-store or bar-rail ATMs, I can think
>> of only one country in which this happens (and it's not the USA).
> quite a few places, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc..]
I haven't been to Russia, but in Spain and Italy I've never had to pay a
fee, nor have I had to make any effort to avoid it. Where have you paid a
fee in Spain or Italy?
>> No, they just provide really bad exchange rates, which is the same thing.
>> "No commission" is a tax on stupid people.
> Again wrong, for example near Victoria coach station in London and in
> Oman you can get "MARKET" rate with no comission!! yes that is right
> no comission and no bad exchange rate. They make their profit on the
> spread between buying and selling.
Um, that spread is where you get screwed. Nobody makes money changing cash
at interbank rates; the cash handling costs are too high for that to be
feasible.
>> When has an ATM given someone the wrong currency?
> Ok one straight away, Russia machines have $ and Roubles.
And there are people dumb enough to choose the wrong one?
> But I wasn't talking about machine giving the wrong currency. I was
> talking about you land at airport and only have $ when you need say euros
> and the ATM is broken.
This is a popular fantasy in the newsgroup but in real life it doesn't seem
to happen. What they've done, which is clever, is install multiple ATMs in
airports. Anyway, even if it did, that's when you worry about changing cash,
not the 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999% of the
time when it doesn't occur.
> Or you use the ATM and they give you 50/100 euro notes, you take a taxi
> which only cost 5 euros and guess what "he doesn't have change."
First of all, unless the ATM only has 50s (rare in most countries) you can
select an amount that will ensure you get a 20. Just ask for e70 or e120.
Secondly, it takes no time to change a note into a smaller one. Anyone at an
airport will do it for you, including the exchange booth.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>> Mine doesn't.
> luckly you but I am assuming you are from America by other sentence a
> lot of banks charge everything there. But for example LLOYDS TSB in
> UK charge 2.75% to take money out from an ATM aboard.
So switch to a better bank. People have frequently pointed out better deals
from UK outfits in this newsgroup.
>> Where? Other than non-bank, convenience-store or bar-rail ATMs, I can think
>> of only one country in which this happens (and it's not the USA).
> quite a few places, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc..]
I haven't been to Russia, but in Spain and Italy I've never had to pay a
fee, nor have I had to make any effort to avoid it. Where have you paid a
fee in Spain or Italy?
>> No, they just provide really bad exchange rates, which is the same thing.
>> "No commission" is a tax on stupid people.
> Again wrong, for example near Victoria coach station in London and in
> Oman you can get "MARKET" rate with no comission!! yes that is right
> no comission and no bad exchange rate. They make their profit on the
> spread between buying and selling.
Um, that spread is where you get screwed. Nobody makes money changing cash
at interbank rates; the cash handling costs are too high for that to be
feasible.
>> When has an ATM given someone the wrong currency?
> Ok one straight away, Russia machines have $ and Roubles.
And there are people dumb enough to choose the wrong one?
> But I wasn't talking about machine giving the wrong currency. I was
> talking about you land at airport and only have $ when you need say euros
> and the ATM is broken.
This is a popular fantasy in the newsgroup but in real life it doesn't seem
to happen. What they've done, which is clever, is install multiple ATMs in
airports. Anyway, even if it did, that's when you worry about changing cash,
not the 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999% of the
time when it doesn't occur.
> Or you use the ATM and they give you 50/100 euro notes, you take a taxi
> which only cost 5 euros and guess what "he doesn't have change."
First of all, unless the ATM only has 50s (rare in most countries) you can
select an amount that will ensure you get a 20. Just ask for e70 or e120.
Secondly, it takes no time to change a note into a smaller one. Anyone at an
airport will do it for you, including the exchange booth.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Jun 21st 2003, 4:53 am
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
Mark Kelly wrote:
> And also as other ppl pointed out, you never know what will happen, like
> what happens if your wallet got stolen? you are stuck without a card.
> Travel cheques they get replace but normally (again there are expections)
> they are sent to the home address.)
On the two occasions when I needed a replacement card (once in India, once
in the Netherlands) my US bank sorted me out instantly. First, they asked
where I was and arranged to have cash ready for me at a nearby local bank
(actually in India that process, including the reverse-charges phone call,
was FASTER than simply changing money). Second, they sent me replacement
cards via international express courier.
It was substantially less hassle than the time I lost my Amex travelers
checks in Bali (early '90s, before I saw the light on the ATM issue) and I
had to borrow money from strangers to tide me over for days until the
replacement checks came through.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
> And also as other ppl pointed out, you never know what will happen, like
> what happens if your wallet got stolen? you are stuck without a card.
> Travel cheques they get replace but normally (again there are expections)
> they are sent to the home address.)
On the two occasions when I needed a replacement card (once in India, once
in the Netherlands) my US bank sorted me out instantly. First, they asked
where I was and arranged to have cash ready for me at a nearby local bank
(actually in India that process, including the reverse-charges phone call,
was FASTER than simply changing money). Second, they sent me replacement
cards via international express courier.
It was substantially less hassle than the time I lost my Amex travelers
checks in Bali (early '90s, before I saw the light on the ATM issue) and I
had to borrow money from strangers to tide me over for days until the
replacement checks came through.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Jun 21st 2003, 4:54 am
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
Marie Lewis wrote:
> Miguel Cruz writes
>> If merchants accepted the card number without adequately verifying the
>> cardholder's identity, then then they pay. Fair enough.
> Yes, but in the end, they have to make profits so the public pays, one
> way or another.
That's a side-effect of the existence of criminals and fraudsters.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
> Miguel Cruz writes
>> If merchants accepted the card number without adequately verifying the
>> cardholder's identity, then then they pay. Fair enough.
> Yes, but in the end, they have to make profits so the public pays, one
> way or another.
That's a side-effect of the existence of criminals and fraudsters.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam
Jun 21st 2003, 5:41 am
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
[email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote in message news:...
> me wrote:
> > [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
> >> Miss L.Toe wrote:
> >>> At least we dont have too many 'drive-thru' cash points. To me that really
> >>> sums up American society.
> >>
> >> In the midwest there are drive-through beer places, which seems a bit
> >> frightening.
> >
> > Because the act of getting out of the car changes everything so much?
>
> Okay, it's not as scary as the full bar I saw at a gas station in Guatemala
> City a few weeks ago.
>
> But yeah, I think it's scary on a few levels. First, just the laziness
> factor. I guess that's more disgusting than scary. Second, it just sort of
> reinforces the idea that drinking and driving go together.
The ones I ever patronized didn't sell single servings. They predominately
sold cases. Even the chips were only sold in the large bags. The stop
and robs on the other hand will sell you a single can of cold beer, and
a small paper bag to go with it. Like I say, I don't really see where
the act of getting out of the car changes much.
> me wrote:
> > [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
> >> Miss L.Toe wrote:
> >>> At least we dont have too many 'drive-thru' cash points. To me that really
> >>> sums up American society.
> >>
> >> In the midwest there are drive-through beer places, which seems a bit
> >> frightening.
> >
> > Because the act of getting out of the car changes everything so much?
>
> Okay, it's not as scary as the full bar I saw at a gas station in Guatemala
> City a few weeks ago.
>
> But yeah, I think it's scary on a few levels. First, just the laziness
> factor. I guess that's more disgusting than scary. Second, it just sort of
> reinforces the idea that drinking and driving go together.
The ones I ever patronized didn't sell single servings. They predominately
sold cases. Even the chips were only sold in the large bags. The stop
and robs on the other hand will sell you a single can of cold beer, and
a small paper bag to go with it. Like I say, I don't really see where
the act of getting out of the car changes much.
Jun 21st 2003, 5:47 am
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
On 21 Jun 2003 16:23:21 GMT, greg byshenk
wrote:
>> >> Actually I should go as far to say that "PPL" who only think the card
>> >> is the answer to all thing should not leave home without adult
>> >> supervision. For starters most banks charge fees to use your card
>> >> aboard
>> >Mine doesn't.
>
>> luckly you but I am assuming you are from America by other sentence a
>> lot of banks charge everything there. But for example LLOYDS TSB in
>> UK charge 2.75% to take money out from an ATM aboard.
>I assume you mean "abroad"...? I have seen cash machines "aboard"
>gambling boats, and they often charge extra, but that seems to be a
>special case.
no I mean overseas, you know outside the country. sorry my spelling
english / spelling is terrible.
>FWIW, I believe that some banks in the US charge exhorbitant fees for
>use of certain cash machines. But if that is the case, then the answer
>is simple: if a bank is ripping you off, change banks. Some banks
>charge no fees, and others charge minimal fees (along the lines of USD1
>or EUR1 per withdrawal).
>> >> and the bank the ATM machine belongs to might charge a fee as
>> >> well.
>> >Where? Other than non-bank, convenience-store or bar-rail ATMs, I can think
>> >of only one country in which this happens (and it's not the USA).
>
>> quite a few places, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc..]
>I have used bank machines at least in Italy (of those on your list),
>and there was _not_ a charge from the bank owning the machine.
of course it is not all banks, and also it is not always "listed" as a
charge but just included in the exchange rate.
>
>> >> Hence can quite easily make it the most expensive way possible. As a study
>> >> in the Daily Mail has shown recently. Also not a lot of places do not
>> >> charge comission on currency
>> >No, they just provide really bad exchange rates, which is the same thing.
>> >"No commission" is a tax on stupid people.
>
>> Again wrong, for example near Victoria coach station in London and in
>> Oman you can get "MARKET" rate with no comission!! yes that is right
>> no comission and no bad exchange rate. They make their profit on the
>> spread between buying and selling.
>Precisely. That "spread between the buying and selling" (sometimes as
>much as 10%!) _is_ the "really bad exchange rates". If there is a 10%
>spread, then you are paying something on the order of 5% over the
>interbank rate, which is obscene.
No they use the interbank rate. as I said they make their profit fron
the difference, since for example in Oman and Victoria are exchanging
a lot all the time.. Hence make their profit in volume of
transcations.
>> >> and it give you safe of mind that you know you got the right curreny..
>> >When has an ATM given someone the wrong currency?
>
>> Ok one straight away, Russia machines have $ and Roubles. But I
>> wasn't talking about machine giving the wrong currency. I was talking
>> about you land at airport and only have $ when you need say euros and
>> the ATM is broken. Or you use the ATM and they give you 50/100 euro
>> notes, you take a taxi which only cost 5 euros and guess what "he
>> doesn't have change."
>If you happen to arrive at the airport and "the ATM is broken" (I don't
>recall ever arriving at an international airport with only one cash
>machine, but we'll run with that for now), then you can visit a bureau
>de change at that airport, where the rates are unlikely to be much
>worse than they were in your home country. IOW, the "worst case"
>scenario for using one's debit card is more or less equivalent to the
>"best case" for exchanging currency before you leave.
But than the Bureau de change could be close like when I went to
Stanstead airport at 6am nearly all of them were closed expect one,
which had a massive queue. Which goes back to what the other person
is saying. Also at the airport they are reown to have "TERRIBLE"
rates and also say you use your credit card you get charge cash
advance fee, than the transcation fee, etc hence it goes even higher
now! If use debit card not all those charges are added. But as you
said you can change banks but not everyone have the luxury of having
the best bank in the world on their door step. (just remind myself of
that beer advert, about if they were a bank) :-)
>Additionally, should it be the case that one gets only "50/100 euro
>notes" (I've never recieved a 100 euro note from a bank machine, but
>we'll run with that for now), then one hires a taxi and gets change
>at one's hotel. Alternatively, one buys a coffee or a soda at the
>airport, and -- voila! -- instant change.
>Your supposed problems are imaginary.
No cause early in the morning or late at night, the places might not
have change, also for example in UK there are lot of places that won't
take £50 notes. But as you are saying there are solutions but as
other person highlighted about "one person on a delay flight" things
can happen and hence good idea to take cash with you. Or other
example when I went to Naxos in Italy there were a group going to
other place the following day for couple of days, when they came back
some were not so please cause the nearest cash point machine was 3
hour walk away! hence now they advertise the fact that this place
does not have "cashpoint machine." hence take "CASH" with you or the
"hotel will be happy to exchange travel cheques." or if you come to
uk and goto say the black mountains in wales, or other some remote
parts you will have an interesting (and time wasted) finding cash
point machine.
>--
>greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
>hate spam?
>
wrote:
>> >> Actually I should go as far to say that "PPL" who only think the card
>> >> is the answer to all thing should not leave home without adult
>> >> supervision. For starters most banks charge fees to use your card
>> >> aboard
>> >Mine doesn't.
>
>> luckly you but I am assuming you are from America by other sentence a
>> lot of banks charge everything there. But for example LLOYDS TSB in
>> UK charge 2.75% to take money out from an ATM aboard.
>I assume you mean "abroad"...? I have seen cash machines "aboard"
>gambling boats, and they often charge extra, but that seems to be a
>special case.
no I mean overseas, you know outside the country. sorry my spelling
english / spelling is terrible.
>FWIW, I believe that some banks in the US charge exhorbitant fees for
>use of certain cash machines. But if that is the case, then the answer
>is simple: if a bank is ripping you off, change banks. Some banks
>charge no fees, and others charge minimal fees (along the lines of USD1
>or EUR1 per withdrawal).
>> >> and the bank the ATM machine belongs to might charge a fee as
>> >> well.
>> >Where? Other than non-bank, convenience-store or bar-rail ATMs, I can think
>> >of only one country in which this happens (and it's not the USA).
>
>> quite a few places, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc..]
>I have used bank machines at least in Italy (of those on your list),
>and there was _not_ a charge from the bank owning the machine.
of course it is not all banks, and also it is not always "listed" as a
charge but just included in the exchange rate.
>
>> >> Hence can quite easily make it the most expensive way possible. As a study
>> >> in the Daily Mail has shown recently. Also not a lot of places do not
>> >> charge comission on currency
>> >No, they just provide really bad exchange rates, which is the same thing.
>> >"No commission" is a tax on stupid people.
>
>> Again wrong, for example near Victoria coach station in London and in
>> Oman you can get "MARKET" rate with no comission!! yes that is right
>> no comission and no bad exchange rate. They make their profit on the
>> spread between buying and selling.
>Precisely. That "spread between the buying and selling" (sometimes as
>much as 10%!) _is_ the "really bad exchange rates". If there is a 10%
>spread, then you are paying something on the order of 5% over the
>interbank rate, which is obscene.
No they use the interbank rate. as I said they make their profit fron
the difference, since for example in Oman and Victoria are exchanging
a lot all the time.. Hence make their profit in volume of
transcations.
>> >> and it give you safe of mind that you know you got the right curreny..
>> >When has an ATM given someone the wrong currency?
>
>> Ok one straight away, Russia machines have $ and Roubles. But I
>> wasn't talking about machine giving the wrong currency. I was talking
>> about you land at airport and only have $ when you need say euros and
>> the ATM is broken. Or you use the ATM and they give you 50/100 euro
>> notes, you take a taxi which only cost 5 euros and guess what "he
>> doesn't have change."
>If you happen to arrive at the airport and "the ATM is broken" (I don't
>recall ever arriving at an international airport with only one cash
>machine, but we'll run with that for now), then you can visit a bureau
>de change at that airport, where the rates are unlikely to be much
>worse than they were in your home country. IOW, the "worst case"
>scenario for using one's debit card is more or less equivalent to the
>"best case" for exchanging currency before you leave.
But than the Bureau de change could be close like when I went to
Stanstead airport at 6am nearly all of them were closed expect one,
which had a massive queue. Which goes back to what the other person
is saying. Also at the airport they are reown to have "TERRIBLE"
rates and also say you use your credit card you get charge cash
advance fee, than the transcation fee, etc hence it goes even higher
now! If use debit card not all those charges are added. But as you
said you can change banks but not everyone have the luxury of having
the best bank in the world on their door step. (just remind myself of
that beer advert, about if they were a bank) :-)
>Additionally, should it be the case that one gets only "50/100 euro
>notes" (I've never recieved a 100 euro note from a bank machine, but
>we'll run with that for now), then one hires a taxi and gets change
>at one's hotel. Alternatively, one buys a coffee or a soda at the
>airport, and -- voila! -- instant change.
>Your supposed problems are imaginary.
No cause early in the morning or late at night, the places might not
have change, also for example in UK there are lot of places that won't
take £50 notes. But as you are saying there are solutions but as
other person highlighted about "one person on a delay flight" things
can happen and hence good idea to take cash with you. Or other
example when I went to Naxos in Italy there were a group going to
other place the following day for couple of days, when they came back
some were not so please cause the nearest cash point machine was 3
hour walk away! hence now they advertise the fact that this place
does not have "cashpoint machine." hence take "CASH" with you or the
"hotel will be happy to exchange travel cheques." or if you come to
uk and goto say the black mountains in wales, or other some remote
parts you will have an interesting (and time wasted) finding cash
point machine.
>--
>greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
>hate spam?
>
Jun 21st 2003, 6:20 am
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:36:28 GMT,
marko"_R*E*M*O*V*E*T*H*I*S*P*A*R*T_"@nojunk.ntlwor ld.com (Mark
Kelly) wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:08:55 GMT, [email protected] (Hatunen) wrote:
>>I will also note that because my ATM cards require a PIN, no
>>charges whatsoever were made to either when my wallet was stolen.
>>And, as I ntoed elsewhere, the thieves managed to add some $600
>>in charges to my Visa card, which I did not have to pay a cent
>>of.
>So when you lost your cards what happen then? how did you get other
>card?
>Also other person was saying "who ultimately pay" what he means is
>that you "directly" did not pay for that $600 charges but indirectly
>everyone who use cards did,. the banks themselves has said that in
>bank charges, interest rate, etc.
If someone steals my stereo system and sells it to a merchant
and the police identify my stereo and return it to me, the
merchant is out the money he paid the thief. This is the way it
goes when a merchant isn't careful enough. The bank does *not*
pay it, nor does Visa or mastercard. Not if they've been informed
of the theft.
>>None of these comments apply to the so-called debit cards which
>>bear Visa and Mastercard logos; because these can be used like
>>credit cards in a manner not requiring a PIN, I consider them
>>particlarly dangerous to hold since the funds come directly out
>>of your account.
>Credit cards can be use in a way not require pin number. in "customer
>no presence" transcation, or using the signature method etc..
Precisely why the debit cards are dangerous.
>>My Visa card issuer has recently added a couple of percent to the
>>system conversion rate and I am thinking about changing cards.
>>Prior to this little bit of sleight-of-hand I was only paying
>>about 1% on the standard interbank conversion rate when using my
>>credit card.
>yeah that "3%" charge is like the comission which you are saying is
>not being charged. and then they have "min charge as well" but
>forget that for now.
What "min charge"?
>now lets say you spend $100.
>Using the card you get the exchange rate of 1.36.
>But cause of that 3% it actually cost you $103.
>Now using comission free places, where the exchange rate is $1.34
If the interbank exchange rate is 1.36 and you are lucky enough
to find a place that uses buy/sell rates of 1.34/1.38 cherish
them, for they are rare.
>now to get E136 at that rate you will need to only spend $101.49 which
>is $1.5 cheaper. Also with a card ppl have a habit of spending more
>which again increase the cost of card method.
Except with the Visa card from my credit union the exchange rate
I pay will be only a little over 1.37.
>>>in fact I will post the Daily Mail article now
>>>Copyright 2003 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
>>> DAILY MAIL (London)
>>I gather you don't believe in copyrights.
>got premission and hence why all the bits like copyright was included.
yeah, sure. You got permission.
>>In any case, do take note that the situation for holders of
>>American-issued ATM and credit cards is a bit different than that
>>for Brit-issued cards.
>and likewise you take note the same as well. like one thing is most
>bank accounts are free in uk whereas in america you have to pay.
I don't pay for my bank account or my credit union account. In
fact, both pay me interest. Needless to say, there ain't no such
thing as a free lunch and the cost of administering my accounts
is in the form of lower interest than I might have got elsewhere.
>or
>(can't remember if it was in this newsgroup it was discuss) in some
>parts of Europe they do not have cheques, whereas in USA they are like
>common as using currency.
Yeah. But these days we mostly use checks to pay things like
utility bills and our credit card balances. ATM cards are used
widely at the point of purchase, and you can even get extra money
back.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
marko"_R*E*M*O*V*E*T*H*I*S*P*A*R*T_"@nojunk.ntlwor ld.com (Mark
Kelly) wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:08:55 GMT, [email protected] (Hatunen) wrote:
>>I will also note that because my ATM cards require a PIN, no
>>charges whatsoever were made to either when my wallet was stolen.
>>And, as I ntoed elsewhere, the thieves managed to add some $600
>>in charges to my Visa card, which I did not have to pay a cent
>>of.
>So when you lost your cards what happen then? how did you get other
>card?
>Also other person was saying "who ultimately pay" what he means is
>that you "directly" did not pay for that $600 charges but indirectly
>everyone who use cards did,. the banks themselves has said that in
>bank charges, interest rate, etc.
If someone steals my stereo system and sells it to a merchant
and the police identify my stereo and return it to me, the
merchant is out the money he paid the thief. This is the way it
goes when a merchant isn't careful enough. The bank does *not*
pay it, nor does Visa or mastercard. Not if they've been informed
of the theft.
>>None of these comments apply to the so-called debit cards which
>>bear Visa and Mastercard logos; because these can be used like
>>credit cards in a manner not requiring a PIN, I consider them
>>particlarly dangerous to hold since the funds come directly out
>>of your account.
>Credit cards can be use in a way not require pin number. in "customer
>no presence" transcation, or using the signature method etc..
Precisely why the debit cards are dangerous.
>>My Visa card issuer has recently added a couple of percent to the
>>system conversion rate and I am thinking about changing cards.
>>Prior to this little bit of sleight-of-hand I was only paying
>>about 1% on the standard interbank conversion rate when using my
>>credit card.
>yeah that "3%" charge is like the comission which you are saying is
>not being charged. and then they have "min charge as well" but
>forget that for now.
What "min charge"?
>now lets say you spend $100.
>Using the card you get the exchange rate of 1.36.
>But cause of that 3% it actually cost you $103.
>Now using comission free places, where the exchange rate is $1.34
If the interbank exchange rate is 1.36 and you are lucky enough
to find a place that uses buy/sell rates of 1.34/1.38 cherish
them, for they are rare.
>now to get E136 at that rate you will need to only spend $101.49 which
>is $1.5 cheaper. Also with a card ppl have a habit of spending more
>which again increase the cost of card method.
Except with the Visa card from my credit union the exchange rate
I pay will be only a little over 1.37.
>>>in fact I will post the Daily Mail article now
>>>Copyright 2003 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
>>> DAILY MAIL (London)
>>I gather you don't believe in copyrights.
>got premission and hence why all the bits like copyright was included.
yeah, sure. You got permission.
>>In any case, do take note that the situation for holders of
>>American-issued ATM and credit cards is a bit different than that
>>for Brit-issued cards.
>and likewise you take note the same as well. like one thing is most
>bank accounts are free in uk whereas in america you have to pay.
I don't pay for my bank account or my credit union account. In
fact, both pay me interest. Needless to say, there ain't no such
thing as a free lunch and the cost of administering my accounts
is in the form of lower interest than I might have got elsewhere.
>or
>(can't remember if it was in this newsgroup it was discuss) in some
>parts of Europe they do not have cheques, whereas in USA they are like
>common as using currency.
Yeah. But these days we mostly use checks to pay things like
utility bills and our credit card balances. ATM cards are used
widely at the point of purchase, and you can even get extra money
back.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Jun 21st 2003, 6:22 am
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Best Place to buy Foreign Currency
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:46:33 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>Mark Kelly wrote:
>> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>>> Mine doesn't.
>> luckly you but I am assuming you are from America by other sentence a
>> lot of banks charge everything there. But for example LLOYDS TSB in
>> UK charge 2.75% to take money out from an ATM aboard.
>So switch to a better bank. People have frequently pointed out better deals
>from UK outfits in this newsgroup.
I myself do not use those banks, I myself use Nationwide = no charge.
>>> Where? Other than non-bank, convenience-store or bar-rail ATMs, I can think
>>> of only one country in which this happens (and it's not the USA).
>> quite a few places, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc..]
>I haven't been to Russia, but in Spain and Italy I've never had to pay a
>fee, nor have I had to make any effort to avoid it. Where have you paid a
>fee in Spain or Italy?
Me myself? I haven't since I haven't used the card there, actually
tell a lie I used the card in spain to pay the hotel. The rest was
paid by cash (food and stuff) cause when we went to Italy my wife
mother gave us some money :-). But can't remember now where I heard
it might of been at RBOS or in other newspaper. I did use a cashcard
in America / and Russia through with my RBOS card. In America got
charge by the bank. and in Russia I had a choice of either dollar or
Roubles.
>>> No, they just provide really bad exchange rates, which is the same thing.
>>> "No commission" is a tax on stupid people.
>> Again wrong, for example near Victoria coach station in London and in
>> Oman you can get "MARKET" rate with no comission!! yes that is right
>> no comission and no bad exchange rate. They make their profit on the
>> spread between buying and selling.
>Um, that spread is where you get screwed. Nobody makes money changing cash
>at interbank rates; the cash handling costs are too high for that to be
>feasible.
well you can get the rate from http://www.x-rates.com/ goto victoria
(can give you the place) and also Bank of oman and look at the rates.
esp in the Gulf changin currency is small side business for them,
cause of the huge expat they make alot of money in other ways. Also
in the gulf there is no taxes.
>>> When has an ATM given someone the wrong currency?
>> Ok one straight away, Russia machines have $ and Roubles.
>And there are people dumb enough to choose the wrong one?
Wouldnt suprise me. like there are ppl dumb enough to choose say
"welsh" when they understand a word of it. or not realise the choice
etc.. Or even (just thought) (actually a serious point) a blind
person.
>> But I wasn't talking about machine giving the wrong currency. I was
>> talking about you land at airport and only have $ when you need say euros
>> and the ATM is broken.
>This is a popular fantasy in the newsgroup but in real life it doesn't seem
>to happen. What they've done, which is clever, is install multiple ATMs in
>airports. Anyway, even if it did, that's when you worry about changing cash,
>not the 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999% of the
>time when it doesn't occur.
>> Or you use the ATM and they give you 50/100 euro notes, you take a taxi
>> which only cost 5 euros and guess what "he doesn't have change."
>First of all, unless the ATM only has 50s (rare in most countries) you can
>select an amount that will ensure you get a 20. Just ask for e70 or e120.
>Secondly, it takes no time to change a note into a smaller one. Anyone at an
>airport will do it for you, including the exchange booth.
I agree with you there, and u can say that using the card is convient
hence worth any "extra" potential charges you get. But as you are
yourself is saying not all banks treat ATM transations the same, some
charge a fee, some do not, some set a limit of what you can take out,
the number of times, etc.. Hence ATM solution is not fit all
solution.
>Mark Kelly wrote:
>> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>>> Mine doesn't.
>> luckly you but I am assuming you are from America by other sentence a
>> lot of banks charge everything there. But for example LLOYDS TSB in
>> UK charge 2.75% to take money out from an ATM aboard.
>So switch to a better bank. People have frequently pointed out better deals
>from UK outfits in this newsgroup.
I myself do not use those banks, I myself use Nationwide = no charge.
>>> Where? Other than non-bank, convenience-store or bar-rail ATMs, I can think
>>> of only one country in which this happens (and it's not the USA).
>> quite a few places, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc..]
>I haven't been to Russia, but in Spain and Italy I've never had to pay a
>fee, nor have I had to make any effort to avoid it. Where have you paid a
>fee in Spain or Italy?
Me myself? I haven't since I haven't used the card there, actually
tell a lie I used the card in spain to pay the hotel. The rest was
paid by cash (food and stuff) cause when we went to Italy my wife
mother gave us some money :-). But can't remember now where I heard
it might of been at RBOS or in other newspaper. I did use a cashcard
in America / and Russia through with my RBOS card. In America got
charge by the bank. and in Russia I had a choice of either dollar or
Roubles.
>>> No, they just provide really bad exchange rates, which is the same thing.
>>> "No commission" is a tax on stupid people.
>> Again wrong, for example near Victoria coach station in London and in
>> Oman you can get "MARKET" rate with no comission!! yes that is right
>> no comission and no bad exchange rate. They make their profit on the
>> spread between buying and selling.
>Um, that spread is where you get screwed. Nobody makes money changing cash
>at interbank rates; the cash handling costs are too high for that to be
>feasible.
well you can get the rate from http://www.x-rates.com/ goto victoria
(can give you the place) and also Bank of oman and look at the rates.
esp in the Gulf changin currency is small side business for them,
cause of the huge expat they make alot of money in other ways. Also
in the gulf there is no taxes.
>>> When has an ATM given someone the wrong currency?
>> Ok one straight away, Russia machines have $ and Roubles.
>And there are people dumb enough to choose the wrong one?
Wouldnt suprise me. like there are ppl dumb enough to choose say
"welsh" when they understand a word of it. or not realise the choice
etc.. Or even (just thought) (actually a serious point) a blind
person.
>> But I wasn't talking about machine giving the wrong currency. I was
>> talking about you land at airport and only have $ when you need say euros
>> and the ATM is broken.
>This is a popular fantasy in the newsgroup but in real life it doesn't seem
>to happen. What they've done, which is clever, is install multiple ATMs in
>airports. Anyway, even if it did, that's when you worry about changing cash,
>not the 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999% of the
>time when it doesn't occur.
>> Or you use the ATM and they give you 50/100 euro notes, you take a taxi
>> which only cost 5 euros and guess what "he doesn't have change."
>First of all, unless the ATM only has 50s (rare in most countries) you can
>select an amount that will ensure you get a 20. Just ask for e70 or e120.
>Secondly, it takes no time to change a note into a smaller one. Anyone at an
>airport will do it for you, including the exchange booth.
I agree with you there, and u can say that using the card is convient
hence worth any "extra" potential charges you get. But as you are
yourself is saying not all banks treat ATM transations the same, some
charge a fee, some do not, some set a limit of what you can take out,
the number of times, etc.. Hence ATM solution is not fit all
solution.
