i was checking my subway maps for a summer trip to berlin when i
noticed there is no u bahn/sbahn connection to tegel airport.

only a dotted line which i think means bus link.

is it possible that the ubahn network which appears so extensive on the
map doesnt go to the nearby airport? anyone know the logic behind this
decision to exclude airport from trains?

or is my map wrong?

thanks

<[email protected]> wrote:


    > i was checking my subway maps for a summer trip to berlin when i
    > noticed there is no u bahn/sbahn connection to tegel airport.
    > only a dotted line which i think means bus link.


Yep, there's an express bus ("X-10" or some such into the center of town,
someone else will know exactly)


    > is it possible that the ubahn network which appears so extensive on the
    > map doesnt go to the nearby airport? anyone know the logic behind this
    > decision to exclude airport from trains?
    > or is my map wrong?


Nope. Tegel was IIRC opened in 1974 or so, it would have cost a LOT of
money to run a U - Bahn line out there (and at that time West Berlin was
*rolling* in money because it was heavily subsidised by the West German
gov't.).

Running an S-Bahn line out to TXL at that time would have been impossible in
any case from a politcal aspect because the S-Bahn was IIRC run by the East
Germans. And building an S-Bahn extension isn't cheap either...

Tegel will eventually be closed and all commercial flight operations shifted
southeast to Schoenefeld aka "Berlin Brandenburg International"...the
closing of Tempelhof is scheduled some time soon but there are still a
handful of flights operating there. See:

http://www.berlin-airport.de/PubEnglish/index.html


Tegel is due to be closed per this schedule in 2010:

http://www.berlin-airport.de/bbi/rub...lan/index.html

"Beginning of 2006
Commemcement of BBI construction

2010
BBI operations commence: As of winter schedule 2010 the air traffic for the
Berlin-Brandenburg region will be bundled at the BBI in Schoenefeld

Closure of Tegel: After the beginning of operations at BBI Tegel is closed"

</>

"Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote in
news:[email protected] k.net:

    > the closing of Tempelhof is scheduled some time soon
    > but there are still a handful of flights operating there.

It was scheduled to close in October 2004, but there's a lot of
protests against the plan because of the history of the place. Some of
the small airlines who do business there won a court trial against the
city government, forcing it to leave the airport open at least until
2006. Until then the government may well change, so all is still open.

Regards

--
Gültig für alle Staaten und Westberlin

http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de

Hi!

Gregory Morrow wrote:

    > Yep, there's an express bus ("X-10" or some such into the center of town,
    > someone else will know exactly)

It is "X9"

There are the following bus lines:

128, connecting to U6 and U8
X9, 109, TXL connect to multiple S and U lines.

You could check
http://www.vbb-fahrinfo.de/fahrinfo/...e/en?L=impuls&

HTH

--
Gunter Herrmann
Naples, Florida, USA

[email protected] wrote in news:1111756036.666238.16660
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

    > i was checking my subway maps for a summer trip to berlin when i
    > noticed there is no u bahn/sbahn connection to tegel airport.

That is correct.

    > only a dotted line which i think means bus link.

Also correct. Several lines to various directions actually.

    > is it possible that the ubahn network which appears so extensive on the
    > map doesnt go to the nearby airport? anyone know the logic behind this
    > decision to exclude airport from trains?

The airport has existed since 1948 for French military and has had
civil aviation since 1960, but only in 1974 did it become West Berlin's
main airport, when the current south terminal was opened. An U-Bahn
connection to Tegel airport has been planned since that time, i.e.
1974, namely as a western extension from line U5 which currently ends
at Alexanderplatz *). But it's merely one of many U-Bahn and S-Bahn
projects Berlin has been planning, and so far funding went into other
extensions which were deemed more important.

Currently there's almost no funding at all for any U-Bahn extensions,
and only little for S-Bahn. Chances are it'll take some more decades
until the connection is completed, if it ever will. But it is still
part of the official long-term planning.

Another thing is that Tegel is scheduled to close when the projected
large airport BBI at the location of Schönefeld opens. If that ever
happens that is, because it also suffers from funding problems. When
the airport closes down there's no point of building an U-Bahn there,
obviously. And since that is supposed to happen "soon", the U-Bahn
project is frozen anyway.

Hope this answers your questions

wolfgang

*) Yes, West Berlin authorities planned to extend an East Berlin line
into West Berlin at a time when the wall was up. Their long term
planning was for an undivided city all the time.

Here's a map of their plans dated 1977
http://www.u-bahnbilder.de/images/200km_1977.gif


--
Gültig für alle Staaten und Westberlin

http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de

Gregory Morrow
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote:

[]
    > Tegel will eventually be closed and all commercial flight operations shifted
    > southeast to Schoenefeld aka "Berlin Brandenburg International"...the
    > closing of Tempelhof is scheduled some time soon but there are still a
    > handful of flights operating there.

Is Berlin Brandenburg International a new designation, as part of the
process of expansion, or does it have a historical context as well? I
don't remember seeing the name when I was at Schoenefeld...

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn wrote:

    > Gregory Morrow
    > <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote:
    > []
    > > Tegel will eventually be closed and all commercial flight operations
shifted
    > > southeast to Schoenefeld aka "Berlin Brandenburg International"...the
    > > closing of Tempelhof is scheduled some time soon but there are still a
    > > handful of flights operating there.
    > Is Berlin Brandenburg International a new designation, as part of the
    > process of expansion, or does it have a historical context as well? I
    > don't remember seeing the name when I was at Schoenefeld...


It's new. IIRC (some of you Berliners correct me if I'm wrong) the original
plan back in the 90's was to build a whole new airport on a "green field"
site south of Berlin. Environmental and legal disputes (not to mention
prohibitive costs) apparently put the brakes on this plan, so SXF became the
default site...

At present Berlin is not really a big major hub for anybody, it has a high
percentage of cheapo/charter carriers. It's not a business destination
either like DUS or MUC or FRA so virtually all of the traffic is
medium/short haul. At present AFAIK MIAT Mongolian is the only long haul
carrier out of Berlin. ISTR reading that this summer both Delta and
Continental are to serve Berlin from JFK and EWR respectively (Berlin's last
service to the US was LH's flight to Washington Dulles, curtailed after
9/11). Remember that Berlin and it's cachement area suffer from about 20%
unemployment and the loss of much industry/business (Dresden is about the
only economic bright spot in eastern Germany) ...until the economy improves
don't expect the Berlin air travel situation to change very much.

--
Best
Greg



    > --
    > David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    > usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

[email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of besses o'
th' barn) wrote in
news:1gu1iwm.13qkhiw11azpqdN%this_address_is_for_s [email protected]:

    > Is Berlin Brandenburg International a new designation, as part of the
    > process of expansion, or does it have a historical context as well? I
    > don't remember seeing the name when I was at Schoenefeld...

It's the project name of the new large airport. It's supposed to
replace Berlin's current system of 3 mid-sized airports, and in
addition be a hub akin to Munich's new airport which has managed to
draw some of the transit traffic from Frankfurt after it opened. The
projected location is Schönefeld which is going to be expanded and
restructured, the other two Berlin airports are to close down. You
won't currently see the name in Schönefeld as the expansion hasn't even
begun.

Regards


--
Ihre d-box wird gerade gestartet.


http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de

"Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote in
news:[email protected] .net:

    > It's new. IIRC (some of you Berliners correct me if I'm wrong) the
    > original plan back in the 90's was to build a whole new airport on a
    > "green field" site south of Berlin.

There were several suggestions. Besides Schönefeld there were
Sperenberg, Jüterbog and Stendal. None of them are "green field", they
were all airfields before - Russian or GDR military ones except
Schönefeld which has always been a civilian airport. Well the decision
was finally for Schönefeld. (Thank God if you ask me, the others are
too far away from the city to be reasonable).

    > At present Berlin is not really a big major hub for anybody, it has a
    > high percentage of cheapo/charter carriers. It's not a business
    > destination either like DUS or MUC or FRA so virtually all of the
    > traffic is medium/short haul.

Easyjet alone managed to double Schönefeld's passenger count during the
one year they've been there.

    > Remember that Berlin and
    > it's cachement area suffer from about 20% unemployment and the loss of
    > much industry/business (Dresden is about the only economic bright spot
    > in eastern Germany) ...until the economy improves don't expect the
    > Berlin air travel situation to change very much.

The airport project is supposed to help that a bit. One thing to keep
in mind is that Berlin Tempelhof used to be Germany's air hub before
WW2. It lost that function to Frankfurt because of division.

Regards

--
Ihre d-box wird gerade gestartet.


http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de