On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:40:17 +0000, Desmond Coughlan
wrote:

    >le Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:27:28 -0600, dans l'article rv.net>, Wee laddie a dit ...=20
    >> They were probably the same people who meet their relatives and friends=
    > at
    >> the entrance to the jetway and prevent the rest of us from exiting the
    >> plane. I think desmond showed more restraint than I would have.
    >Another 'favourite' of mine, is when people go into the m=E9tro, walk
    >right
    >up to the turnstiles, and then stop, and _only then_ do they take their
    >bags, or their wallets, and start fumbling around for a ticket ... thus
    >preventing anyone else from using that turnstile.
    >Never underestimate human idiocy.

But let's at least admit that these idiots aren't always Americans...


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

le Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:02:52 GMT, dans l'article , Hatunen a dit ...

{ snip }

    >>Never underestimate human idiocy.

    > But let's at least admit that these idiots aren't always Americans...

I'll go with that.

--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org

Hatunen wrote:

    >
    > But let's at least admit that these idiots aren't always Americans...

Absolutely not. I saw the same behaviour in Prague. There was a tiny
room in a synogogue that was used to display drawings by children who
did not survive the war. There was room for about 10 people to look at
the pictures in comfort. While I was in there, two separate groups came
in, and filled the room and the tour guide started to explain what the
holocaust was! Basics, that they should already know, and certainly
could have been explained in the bus or outside. Neither guide was
talking in English.

joan
--
Joan McGalliard, UK http://www.mcgalliard.org

In article ,
Desmond Coughlan wrote:

    > le Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:27:28 -0600, dans l'article [email protected]>, Wee laddie a dit ...
    >
    > > They were probably the same people who meet their relatives and friends at
    > > the entrance to the jetway and prevent the rest of us from exiting the
    > > plane. I think desmond showed more restraint than I would have.
    >
    > Another 'favourite' of mine, is when people go into the métro, walk right
    > up to the turnstiles, and then stop, and only then do they take their
    > bags, or their wallets, and start fumbling around for a ticket ... thus
    > preventing anyone else from using that turnstile.
    >
    > Never underestimate human idiocy.


Having just spent considerable time in London, Italy and France, I find
it amusing that Desmond thinks this is somehow a problem of American
tourists. In all of Italy, it is the norm to stand in doorways, at the
ends of jetways etc etc as if one were the only person on earth. Same
everywhere else. Americans, if anything, are a bit less likely to
exhibit this behavior. [heck it was the local French tour guide after
all who probably stopped her group in the metro tunnel for her little
talk]

Jenn wrote:
    > Desmond Coughlan wrote:

    > > Another 'favourite' of mine, is when people go into the métro, walk right
    > > up to the turnstiles, and then stop, and only then do they take their
    > > bags, or their wallets, and start fumbling around for a ticket ... thus
    > > preventing anyone else from using that turnstile.

    > > Never underestimate human idiocy.

    > Having just spent considerable time in London, Italy and France, I find
    > it amusing that Desmond thinks this is somehow a problem of American
    > tourists.

Well, it _is_ "a problem of American tourists". Not _only_ American
tourists, of course -- I've seen the same thing from groups of tourists
of various nationalities -- but Americans included.

The Metro problem is probably more a city/county kind of thing. I
suspect that a New Yorker who is used to the subway will be ready
with his/her ticket when s/he walks up to the turnstile. On the
other hand, someone from a village in the countryside (of whatever
country) is more likely to be baffled by the turnstiles.

As for the large groups blocking anything, I tend to reserve a
large part of blame for the idiot "guides".


--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?

le Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:41:31 +0000, dans l'article , Joan McGalliard a dit ...

    >> But let's at least admit that these idiots aren't always Americans...

    > Absolutely not. I saw the same behaviour in Prague. There was a tiny
    > room in a synogogue that was used to display drawings by children who
    > did not survive the war. There was room for about 10 people to look at
    > the pictures in comfort. While I was in there, two separate groups came
    > in, and filled the room and the tour guide started to explain what the
    > holocaust was! Basics, that they should already know, and certainly
    > could have been explained in the bus or outside. Neither guide was
    > talking in English.

Whilst we're getting 'pet hates' off our chests, I've noticed that in
museums, when there is a 'no photography', or 'please do not touch' sign,
the nation that I see doing it the most, seems to be the Japanese.

--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org

In article ,
greg byshenk wrote:

    > Jenn wrote:
    > > Desmond Coughlan wrote:
    >
    > > > Another 'favourite' of mine, is when people go into the métro, walk right
    > > > up to the turnstiles, and then stop, and only then do they take their
    > > > bags, or their wallets, and start fumbling around for a ticket ... thus
    > > > preventing anyone else from using that turnstile.
    >
    > > > Never underestimate human idiocy.
    >
    > > Having just spent considerable time in London, Italy and France, I find
    > > it amusing that Desmond thinks this is somehow a problem of American
    > > tourists.
    >
    > Well, it _is_ "a problem of American tourists". Not _only_ American
    > tourists, of course -- I've seen the same thing from groups of tourists
    > of various nationalities -- but Americans included.
    >
    > The Metro problem is probably more a city/county kind of thing. I
    > suspect that a New Yorker who is used to the subway will be ready
    > with his/her ticket when s/he walks up to the turnstile. On the
    > other hand, someone from a village in the countryside (of whatever
    > country) is more likely to be baffled by the turnstiles.
    >
    > As for the large groups blocking anything, I tend to reserve a
    > large part of blame for the idiot "guides".

As this would fit my case I would like to know. How exactly does the
turnstile work? Do you slip your ticket in one side and it pops out on
the other? Also do you have to validate your ticket? Yes, I bought a
Visite Pass for several days use.

le 1 Feb 2003 03:13:10 -0600, dans l'article , Someone a dit ...

{ snip }

    >> As for the large groups blocking anything, I tend to reserve a
    >> large part of blame for the idiot "guides".

    > As this would fit my case I would like to know. How exactly does the
    > turnstile work? Do you slip your ticket in one side and it pops out on
    > the other? Also do you have to validate your ticket? Yes, I bought a
    > Visite Pass for several days use.

Yes. _Don't_ validate it on buses, however.

--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org

Someone wrote:
    > greg byshenk wrote:

    > > The Metro problem is probably more a city/county kind of thing. I
    > > suspect that a New Yorker who is used to the subway will be ready
    > > with his/her ticket when s/he walks up to the turnstile. On the
    > > other hand, someone from a village in the countryside (of whatever
    > > country) is more likely to be baffled by the turnstiles.

    > As this would fit my case I would like to know. How exactly does the
    > turnstile work? Do you slip your ticket in one side and it pops out on
    > the other? Also do you have to validate your ticket? Yes, I bought a
    > Visite Pass for several days use.

It's pretty obvious if you look at it, actually.

There is a slot for the ticket (IIRC, it has a green arrow or some
such -- I really don't pay much attention). You slide your ticket
into the slot, and it comes out another slot, at which time you
take back your ticket and walk on through. Once you see someone do
it, it isn't hard to follow.

Note: particularly if it is crowded, do _not_ wait in the queue
until you get to the turnstile and then search for your ticket.

And, as Desmond noted, this applies only to the Metro; you do not
insert your ticket on the bus, but only show it to the driver.

I could be wrong (I've never used the Visite pass), but I _think_
that it is automatically validated the first time you use it on the
Metro. I suspect that the pass comes with instructions in English.


--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?

On the Paris Métro, the most common turnstile is one where you place your
ticket face up in a slot on the front of the machine and (assuming all is in
order) it then pops up out of a slot on top of the machine. You pull it
out, the gate opens and you walk through. Regular users tend to manage this
in one smooth movement...

"Someone" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article ,
    > greg byshenk wrote:
    > > Jenn wrote:
    > > > Desmond Coughlan wrote:
    > >
    > > > > Another 'favourite' of mine, is when people go into the métro, walk
right
    > > > > up to the turnstiles, and then stop, and only then do they take
their
    > > > > bags, or their wallets, and start fumbling around for a ticket ...
thus
    > > > > preventing anyone else from using that turnstile.
    > >
    > > > > Never underestimate human idiocy.
    > >
    > > > Having just spent considerable time in London, Italy and France, I
find
    > > > it amusing that Desmond thinks this is somehow a problem of American
    > > > tourists.
    > >
    > > Well, it _is_ "a problem of American tourists". Not _only_ American
    > > tourists, of course -- I've seen the same thing from groups of tourists
    > > of various nationalities -- but Americans included.
    > >
    > > The Metro problem is probably more a city/county kind of thing. I
    > > suspect that a New Yorker who is used to the subway will be ready
    > > with his/her ticket when s/he walks up to the turnstile. On the
    > > other hand, someone from a village in the countryside (of whatever
    > > country) is more likely to be baffled by the turnstiles.
    > >
    > > As for the large groups blocking anything, I tend to reserve a
    > > large part of blame for the idiot "guides".
    > As this would fit my case I would like to know. How exactly does the
    > turnstile work? Do you slip your ticket in one side and it pops out on
    > the other? Also do you have to validate your ticket? Yes, I bought a
    > Visite Pass for several days use.

In news: [email protected],
Nick Fisher typed:
    > On the Paris Métro, the most common turnstile is one where you place
    > your ticket face up

Any side will do, really :-) . The turnstiles are all fitted with a
ticket-flipping mechanism, so as to be able to read the magnetic strip
whichever way the ticket was introduced.

    > in a slot on the front of the machine and
    > (assuming all is in order) it then pops up out of a slot on top of
    > the machine. You pull it out, the gate opens and you walk through.
    > Regular users tend to manage this in one smooth movement...

Unless, of course, the gate will play some kind of tricks on you in the
process. Which seems to be a 'feature' of those at Châtelet-Les Halles,
lately.

Jeff )

--
Paris transport information (in French) :
http://www.metro-pole.net