Afrikaans and Dutch language
Feb 22nd 2003, 8:36 am
#1
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Posts: n/a
Afrikaans and Dutch language
This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten me on
the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice versa?
Alec
the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice versa?
Alec
Feb 22nd 2003, 9:55 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
"Alec" wrote:
>This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten me on
>the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
>syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice versa?
I observe the low level of mutual understanding between
English-speakers in Europe and those in the US, and suspect that
cultural divides are more significant than language differences. I
suspect that there might be similar obstacles between Dutch people and
Afrikaaners -- "I know what the words say, but I don't understand what
you mean".
PB
>This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten me on
>the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
>syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice versa?
I observe the low level of mutual understanding between
English-speakers in Europe and those in the US, and suspect that
cultural divides are more significant than language differences. I
suspect that there might be similar obstacles between Dutch people and
Afrikaaners -- "I know what the words say, but I don't understand what
you mean".
PB
Feb 22nd 2003, 11:06 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:36:25 -0000, "Alec" wrote:
>This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten me on
>the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
>syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice versa?
>Alec
We surely can communicate, though we heave to keep in mind there are certain
differences, as south-african dutch has seperated from 'normal' dutch since many
ages. According toe my experience, somebody speaking Dutch will understand
somebody speaking Afrikaans, while recognizing him being South-African.
--
Peter Koster
Het Hurktoilet, reisgids voor Frankrijk
http://www.hurktoilet.nl
>This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten me on
>the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
>syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice versa?
>Alec
We surely can communicate, though we heave to keep in mind there are certain
differences, as south-african dutch has seperated from 'normal' dutch since many
ages. According toe my experience, somebody speaking Dutch will understand
somebody speaking Afrikaans, while recognizing him being South-African.
--
Peter Koster
Het Hurktoilet, reisgids voor Frankrijk
http://www.hurktoilet.nl
Feb 22nd 2003, 1:55 pm
#4
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: desperately seeking...
Posts: 115
Afrikaans is more gutteral than Dutch. Perhaps the best way to describe the difference is to make the comparison of pure French against Mauritian.
Afrikaans vocabulary is descended from Dutch. Some-one with a good grasp of Akrikaans will be able to understand Dutch and vice versa. Reading the two languages is especially easy. The only difficulties are in the nuances and subtle differences in pronunciation of various words spelt almost exactly the same.
Interestly, it even easier for an Afrikaans speaking person to understand Flemish (Belgium) than Dutch.
Afrikaans vocabulary is descended from Dutch. Some-one with a good grasp of Akrikaans will be able to understand Dutch and vice versa. Reading the two languages is especially easy. The only difficulties are in the nuances and subtle differences in pronunciation of various words spelt almost exactly the same.
Interestly, it even easier for an Afrikaans speaking person to understand Flemish (Belgium) than Dutch.
Feb 22nd 2003, 10:02 pm
#5
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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
Alec schreef in artikel
...
> This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten me
on
> the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
> syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice versa?
I have mailed some time with someone in South-Africa, while I wrote in
Dutch and she in Afrikaans. It was no problem at all, although we noticed
quite some differences. No experience with talking with someone speaking
Afrikaans.
Often Afrikaans seems pretty funny to the Dutch ear. I wonder if this is
also true the other way around.
Regards,
David
...
> This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten me
on
> the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
> syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice versa?
I have mailed some time with someone in South-Africa, while I wrote in
Dutch and she in Afrikaans. It was no problem at all, although we noticed
quite some differences. No experience with talking with someone speaking
Afrikaans.
Often Afrikaans seems pretty funny to the Dutch ear. I wonder if this is
also true the other way around.
Regards,
David
Feb 23rd 2003, 2:52 pm
#6
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Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
Goose wrote:
>
> Afrikaans is more gutteral than Dutch. Perhaps the best way to describe
> the difference is to make the comparison of pure French against
> Mauritian.
>
> Afrikaans vocabulary is descended from Dutch. Some-one with a good grasp
> of Akrikaans will be able to understand Dutch and vice versa. Reading
> the two languages is especially easy. The only difficulties are in the
> nuances and subtle differences in pronunciation of various words spelt
> almost exactly the same.
>
> Interestly, it even easier for an Afrikaans speaking person to
> understand Flemish (Belgium) than Dutch.
Sounds like you might have a similar situation to "Louisianna creole"
and Parisian French - I forget which one cannot understand the other (A
"creole" told me about it, but it was a long time ago). I think it was
probably that the person speaking creole French could understand the
pure version, but the French-speaker found it difficult to understand
the "altered" form.
>
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
>
> Afrikaans is more gutteral than Dutch. Perhaps the best way to describe
> the difference is to make the comparison of pure French against
> Mauritian.
>
> Afrikaans vocabulary is descended from Dutch. Some-one with a good grasp
> of Akrikaans will be able to understand Dutch and vice versa. Reading
> the two languages is especially easy. The only difficulties are in the
> nuances and subtle differences in pronunciation of various words spelt
> almost exactly the same.
>
> Interestly, it even easier for an Afrikaans speaking person to
> understand Flemish (Belgium) than Dutch.
Sounds like you might have a similar situation to "Louisianna creole"
and Parisian French - I forget which one cannot understand the other (A
"creole" told me about it, but it was a long time ago). I think it was
probably that the person speaking creole French could understand the
pure version, but the French-speaker found it difficult to understand
the "altered" form.
>
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
Feb 23rd 2003, 4:01 pm
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sounds like you might have a similar situation to "Louisianna creole"
> and Parisian French - I forget which one cannot understand the other (A
> "creole" told me about it, but it was a long time ago). I think it was
> probably that the person speaking creole French could understand the
> pure version, but the French-speaker found it difficult to understand
> the "altered" form.
Neither form of French is more "pure" than the other. They are different
dialects, perhaps. If they are not mutually intelligible, they may be
different languages. But neither is more "pure" than the other.
The same applies to Dutch, Afrikaans, Flemish, etc.
news:[email protected]...
> Sounds like you might have a similar situation to "Louisianna creole"
> and Parisian French - I forget which one cannot understand the other (A
> "creole" told me about it, but it was a long time ago). I think it was
> probably that the person speaking creole French could understand the
> pure version, but the French-speaker found it difficult to understand
> the "altered" form.
Neither form of French is more "pure" than the other. They are different
dialects, perhaps. If they are not mutually intelligible, they may be
different languages. But neither is more "pure" than the other.
The same applies to Dutch, Afrikaans, Flemish, etc.
Feb 23rd 2003, 8:30 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sounds like you might have a similar situation to "Louisianna creole"
> and Parisian French - I forget which one cannot understand the other (A
> "creole" told me about it, but it was a long time ago). I think it was
> probably that the person speaking creole French could understand the
> pure version, but the French-speaker found it difficult to understand
> the "altered" form.
We have accents within the UK (not dialects) which can be virtually
unintelligible!
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
> Sounds like you might have a similar situation to "Louisianna creole"
> and Parisian French - I forget which one cannot understand the other (A
> "creole" told me about it, but it was a long time ago). I think it was
> probably that the person speaking creole French could understand the
> pure version, but the French-speaker found it difficult to understand
> the "altered" form.
We have accents within the UK (not dialects) which can be virtually
unintelligible!
Surreyman
Feb 24th 2003, 4:31 pm
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
MM wrote:
>
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Sounds like you might have a similar situation to "Louisiana creole"
> > and Parisian French - I forget which one cannot understand the other (A
> > "creole" told me about it, but it was a long time ago). I think it was
> > probably that the person speaking creole French could understand the
> > pure version, but the French-speaker found it difficult to understand
> > the "altered" form.
>
> Neither form of French is more "pure" than the other. They are different
> dialects, perhaps. If they are not mutually intelligible, they may be
> different languages. But neither is more "pure" than the other.
Uhhh.... Louisiana was SETTLED by the French, and many of the people
there still speak the language (but there are differences, just as there
are between the English spoken in England and the English spoken here).
It is no less "French" than the French spoken in Quebec, but neither one
of them is Parisian French (which, when I was going to school, was
considered the model for "pure" French).
>
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Sounds like you might have a similar situation to "Louisiana creole"
> > and Parisian French - I forget which one cannot understand the other (A
> > "creole" told me about it, but it was a long time ago). I think it was
> > probably that the person speaking creole French could understand the
> > pure version, but the French-speaker found it difficult to understand
> > the "altered" form.
>
> Neither form of French is more "pure" than the other. They are different
> dialects, perhaps. If they are not mutually intelligible, they may be
> different languages. But neither is more "pure" than the other.
Uhhh.... Louisiana was SETTLED by the French, and many of the people
there still speak the language (but there are differences, just as there
are between the English spoken in England and the English spoken here).
It is no less "French" than the French spoken in Quebec, but neither one
of them is Parisian French (which, when I was going to school, was
considered the model for "pure" French).
Feb 24th 2003, 4:35 pm
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
"a.spencer3" wrote:
>
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Sounds like you might have a similar situation to "Louisianna creole"
> > and Parisian French - I forget which one cannot understand the other (A
> > "creole" told me about it, but it was a long time ago). I think it was
> > probably that the person speaking creole French could understand the
> > pure version, but the French-speaker found it difficult to understand
> > the "altered" form.
> >
>
> We have accents within the UK (not dialects) which can be virtually
> unintelligible!
I know! I encountered a BA employee at Heathrow who claimed to be
London born and bred, but I could scarcely understand a word he said!
(Funny, I don't have that problem with television programs imported from
the BBC - even one several years ago that was filmed in Scotland, using
Scottish actors.)
>
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Sounds like you might have a similar situation to "Louisianna creole"
> > and Parisian French - I forget which one cannot understand the other (A
> > "creole" told me about it, but it was a long time ago). I think it was
> > probably that the person speaking creole French could understand the
> > pure version, but the French-speaker found it difficult to understand
> > the "altered" form.
> >
>
> We have accents within the UK (not dialects) which can be virtually
> unintelligible!
I know! I encountered a BA employee at Heathrow who claimed to be
London born and bred, but I could scarcely understand a word he said!
(Funny, I don't have that problem with television programs imported from
the BBC - even one several years ago that was filmed in Scotland, using
Scottish actors.)
Feb 24th 2003, 7:08 pm
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
> Alec schreef in artikel
> ...
> > This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten
me
> on
> > the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
> > syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice
versa?
Afrikaans is closer to Flemish than Dutch. Although I can "read" a Dutch
newspaper, I find it difficult to understand a Dutch speaker due to the
speed that they talk at. It is easier to follow a Dutch news reader on TV. I
think that is because news readers tend to be chosen for their clarity of
voice and also present the new slower than ordinary speech.
The Afrikaans grammer and syntax are similar to their European roots, but
the spelling is literal (as heard) and without the Dutch -en suffix so
evident.
Clive Reid
[email protected]
> ...
> > This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten
me
> on
> > the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
> > syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice
versa?
Afrikaans is closer to Flemish than Dutch. Although I can "read" a Dutch
newspaper, I find it difficult to understand a Dutch speaker due to the
speed that they talk at. It is easier to follow a Dutch news reader on TV. I
think that is because news readers tend to be chosen for their clarity of
voice and also present the new slower than ordinary speech.
The Afrikaans grammer and syntax are similar to their European roots, but
the spelling is literal (as heard) and without the Dutch -en suffix so
evident.
Clive Reid
[email protected]
Feb 24th 2003, 9:45 pm
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It is no less "French" than the French spoken in Quebec, but neither one
> of them is Parisian French (which, when I was going to school, was
> considered the model for "pure" French).
For some reason, I'm told in the Netherlands that 'pure' Dutch is that of
Utrecht. Any reason?
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
> It is no less "French" than the French spoken in Quebec, but neither one
> of them is Parisian French (which, when I was going to school, was
> considered the model for "pure" French).
For some reason, I'm told in the Netherlands that 'pure' Dutch is that of
Utrecht. Any reason?
Surreyman
Feb 24th 2003, 9:48 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I know! I encountered a BA employee at Heathrow who claimed to be
> London born and bred, but I could scarcely understand a word he said!
> (Funny, I don't have that problem with television programs imported from
> the BBC - even one several years ago that was filmed in Scotland, using
> Scottish actors.)
Well, I am a Londoner(ish), but wouldn't 'av fort Cockney (presumably) was
unintelligible!
I was thinking more of Paisley Glaswegian (for which, once, I had to act as
translator in the USA!).
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
> > I know! I encountered a BA employee at Heathrow who claimed to be
> London born and bred, but I could scarcely understand a word he said!
> (Funny, I don't have that problem with television programs imported from
> the BBC - even one several years ago that was filmed in Scotland, using
> Scottish actors.)
Well, I am a Londoner(ish), but wouldn't 'av fort Cockney (presumably) was
unintelligible!
I was thinking more of Paisley Glaswegian (for which, once, I had to act as
translator in the USA!).
Surreyman
Feb 24th 2003, 11:16 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
a.spencer3 wrote:
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
> > It is no less "French" than the French spoken in Quebec, but neither one
> > of them is Parisian French (which, when I was going to school, was
> > considered the model for "pure" French).
> For some reason, I'm told in the Netherlands that 'pure' Dutch is that of
> Utrecht. Any reason?
The same is said of Haarlem.
Primarily due to the absence of specific features that are unique to one
particular region, I believe.
--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
> > It is no less "French" than the French spoken in Quebec, but neither one
> > of them is Parisian French (which, when I was going to school, was
> > considered the model for "pure" French).
> For some reason, I'm told in the Netherlands that 'pure' Dutch is that of
> Utrecht. Any reason?
The same is said of Haarlem.
Primarily due to the absence of specific features that are unique to one
particular region, I believe.
--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?
Feb 25th 2003, 5:49 pm
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Afrikaans and Dutch language
Alec wrote:
>
> This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten me on
> the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
> syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice versa?
>
> Alec
Alec,
Years ago I had a girl friend in Haarlem who was originally from South
Africa. She spoke Afrikaans but had no problem conversing in The
Netherlands. The language difference is that Afrikaans is a pidgin
Dutch. I.e., the grammar of Afrikaans is greatly simplified though the
language is intact. The Dutch who emigrated to South Africa were known
as Boers, which is the Dutch word for farmer. A war was named after
them, and a beautiful mild young Dutch cheese is named Boerkaas. My
friend, Annette Kampinga, 25, was murdered by a terrorist in 1980.
The people of Haarlem pride themselves on being the source of the pure
Dutch taal. The way they say Haarlem is a work of art.
John Bermont
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------
>
> This isn't entirely European travel related, but can someone enlighten me on
> the differences and similarities between the two? Grammar, vocabulary,
> syntax? Can a Dutch speaker converse/understand Afrikaans and vice versa?
>
> Alec
Alec,
Years ago I had a girl friend in Haarlem who was originally from South
Africa. She spoke Afrikaans but had no problem conversing in The
Netherlands. The language difference is that Afrikaans is a pidgin
Dutch. I.e., the grammar of Afrikaans is greatly simplified though the
language is intact. The Dutch who emigrated to South Africa were known
as Boers, which is the Dutch word for farmer. A war was named after
them, and a beautiful mild young Dutch cheese is named Boerkaas. My
friend, Annette Kampinga, 25, was murdered by a terrorist in 1980.
The people of Haarlem pride themselves on being the source of the pure
Dutch taal. The way they say Haarlem is a work of art.
John Bermont
--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------
