mini Mini

Martin <[email protected]> wrote in news:q6slm2llp8d7tt453ad2s7aj6ji0dulvna@
4ax.com:

    > On 27 Nov 2006 14:59:33 +0100, mini Mini <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Martin <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>news:[email protected] m:
    >>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:32:03 +0000,
    >>> [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
of
    >>> the royal duchy of city south and deansgate) wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>[]
    >>>>> However there was one case (AFAIR in the Euro early times) when I
    >>>>> was paid a couple of missions by an international organization
    >>>>> hosted in Germany, and I was charged about 12 euro.
    >>>
    >>> I was paid by the same international organisation, but in NL.
    >>Still have connections? My accountant tells me I need job....
    >
    > to be able to afford his advice?

I should have said I need to get a "real" job!


    > I still get a pension from them. :-)

That;ll be fine, thank you. I'll send you my bank details.

Martin

On 27 Nov 2006 15:11:46 +0100, mini Mini <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Martin <[email protected]> wrote in news:q6slm2llp8d7tt453ad2s7aj6ji0dulvna@
    >4ax.com:
    >> On 27 Nov 2006 14:59:33 +0100, mini Mini <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Martin <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>>news:[email protected] :
    >>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:32:03 +0000,
    >>>> [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
    >of
    >>>> the royal duchy of city south and deansgate) wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>[]
    >>>>>> However there was one case (AFAIR in the Euro early times) when I
    >>>>>> was paid a couple of missions by an international organization
    >>>>>> hosted in Germany, and I was charged about 12 euro.
    >>>>
    >>>> I was paid by the same international organisation, but in NL.
    >>>Still have connections? My accountant tells me I need job....
    >>
    >> to be able to afford his advice?
    >I should have said I need to get a "real" job!

Without you, your accountant will probably need a real job too.

    >> I still get a pension from them. :-)
    >That;ll be fine, thank you. I'll send you my bank details.

I sent you info about vacancy notices by e-mail.
--

Martin

mini Mini

Martin <[email protected]> wrote in news:osslm2lqm3afp1evi7jv75l7bpquc7hjnr@
4ax.com:

    > On 27 Nov 2006 15:11:46 +0100, mini Mini <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Martin <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:q6slm2llp8d7tt453ad2s7aj6ji0dulvna@
    >>4ax.com:
    >>> On 27 Nov 2006 14:59:33 +0100, mini Mini <[email protected]>
wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Martin <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>>>news:[email protected] m:
    >>>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:32:03 +0000,
    >>>>> [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
    >>of
    >>>>> the royal duchy of city south and deansgate) wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>[]
    >>>>>>> However there was one case (AFAIR in the Euro early times) when I
    >>>>>>> was paid a couple of missions by an international organization
    >>>>>>> hosted in Germany, and I was charged about 12 euro.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I was paid by the same international organisation, but in NL.
    >>>>Still have connections? My accountant tells me I need job....
    >>>
    >>> to be able to afford his advice?
    >>I should have said I need to get a "real" job!
    >
    > Without you, your accountant will probably need a real job too.

Well, he certainly won't have as many bills to pay.


    >>> I still get a pension from them. :-)
    >>That;ll be fine, thank you. I'll send you my bank details.
    >
    > I sent you info about vacancy notices by e-mail.

Thanks! I'm afraid I don't know what any of that stuff means! are those
vacancies in English??? ;o) I prefer to collect the pension.
PS. if I hit reply on the email, will it get to you?

Martin

On 27 Nov 2006 16:19:10 +0100, mini Mini <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Martin <[email protected]> wrote in news:osslm2lqm3afp1evi7jv75l7bpquc7hjnr@
    >4ax.com:
    >> On 27 Nov 2006 15:11:46 +0100, mini Mini <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Martin <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> news:q6slm2llp8d7tt453ad2s7aj6ji0dulvna@
    >>>4ax.com:
    >>>> On 27 Nov 2006 14:59:33 +0100, mini Mini <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Martin <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>>>>news:[email protected] om:
    >>>>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:32:03 +0000,
    >>>>>> [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
    >>>of
    >>>>>> the royal duchy of city south and deansgate) wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>>>[]
    >>>>>>>> However there was one case (AFAIR in the Euro early times) when I
    >>>>>>>> was paid a couple of missions by an international organization
    >>>>>>>> hosted in Germany, and I was charged about 12 euro.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I was paid by the same international organisation, but in NL.
    >>>>>Still have connections? My accountant tells me I need job....
    >>>>
    >>>> to be able to afford his advice?
    >>>I should have said I need to get a "real" job!
    >>
    >> Without you, your accountant will probably need a real job too.
    >Well, he certainly won't have as many bills to pay.
    >>>> I still get a pension from them. :-)
    >>>That;ll be fine, thank you. I'll send you my bank details.
    >>
    >> I sent you info about vacancy notices by e-mail.
    >Thanks! I'm afraid I don't know what any of that stuff means! are those
    >vacancies in English??? ;o) I prefer to collect the pension.
    >PS. if I hit reply on the email, will it get to you?

I hope so :-)
--

Martin

Arwel Parry

In message <1hpgqnv.x9oantqq7snN%this_address_is_for_spam@yah oo.co.uk>,
"David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the royal duchy of city south and
deansgate" <[email protected]> writes
    >Neil Williams <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Markku Gr�nroos wrote:
    >> > I bought a bottle of soda in Bamberg last summer. I handed over a note of
    >> > twenty. Lady at the cash register asked whether I have anything
    >> >smaller than
    >> > that. After a negative answer she appered very surly. I was greatly amused.
    >> > I have never witnessed a response like that. After all I wasn't a customer
    >> > to a kiosk in Indonesia but a fairly large grocery store in Germany.
    >> I noticed that when I used to live over there - German shopkeepers seem
    >> very touchy about giving change. In the UK, it's perfectly normal to
    >> hand over a tenner for a 50p can of Coke, and shopkeepers will usually
    >> keep enough change for that to work. The only exception is bus drivers
    >> (who don't want to carry lots of change so someone's less likely to
    >> steal it) and, for some reason best known to the downright rude woman
    >> behind the desk, the newsagent in Luton Airport arrivals.
    >Then there's the Dublin airport express driver who berated my partner
    >for paying the 5 euro fare in coins...

And just to add to the confusion, ordinary Dublin bus fares HAVE to be
paid in coins (if you're not using a prepaid ticket).

--
Arwel Parry

B Vaughan

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:10:58 +0100, Giovanni Drogo
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 27 Nov 2006, Neil Williams wrote:
    >> B Vaughan wrote:
    >>
    >> > The Italian Carta Si is like a debit card, in that the money comes
    >> > directly from your account, but like a credit card in that the charges
    >> > are subtracted once a month, and a statement is sent to you.
    >>
    >> That seems quite an unusual concept. In the UK, you can set up most
    >> credit cards to work like that, with an automatic direct debit from
    >AFAIK Carta SI and Carta Moneta are just normal credit cards with a
    >national circuit. Or at least corresponding to the commonest type of
    >credit card in Italy, which, by default, operate like that.

Normal credit cards in the US and, I believe, in all other countries
don't deduct charges automatically from your bank account. You decide
how much and when to pay. If you pay off the full balance each month
by a certain date, then you incur no interest charges. Otherwise, they
sock you with a fairly high rate of interest on the unpaid balance.
Maybe this is what you call a "revolving account".

My husband has a Bankamericard, which in the US functions as I
explained above, but in Italy functions more like the Carta Si
(automatically pays off your total balance every month by direct
deduction from your bank account). The only difference is that the
Carta Si is, as Giovanni mentions, an option you choose when you open
your bank account, while the Bankamericard (I think) is something you
apply for like a credit card. Another difference is that the
Bankamericard in the US (unless you have silver or gold level or
something) doesn't usually have any annual fee. They make quite enough
from the interest paid by people who don't pay off their full balances
every month.

    >Let's say that before 1985 or so, credit cards were not widely used in
    >Italy, only wealthy people had them, and they were on circuits not
    >associated with a bank (American Express or Diners).
    >Carta SI (for "Servizi Interbancari") was one of the first cards
    >distributed in association with a bank account, one could apply for it
    >alone, or associated to one of the international circuits (VISA or
    >Mastercard). Anyhow the default operation is : you get a statement once
    >a month if you had at least one operation, and payment is deducted
    >automatically at a fixed date. Carta Moneta is sponsored by a different
    >bank consortium in which Cariplo (now part of Intesa) was part.
    >I do not see much difference between what you call debit cards and
    >Pagobancomat (the POS function associated to [I believe] all Bancomat
    >ATM cards), in the sense that payment is nearly immediate.

Except I don't think you could use a Pagobancomat card to make a
purchase over the phone or on the internet, whereas the debit card can
be used as if were a normal credit card.

    >There are AFAIK two more kinds of credit cards in Italy. One is
    >rechargeable (like Intesa Flash). You "load" it with an amount and can
    >spend until that expires or you refill it. Never used it, but should be
    >good for online use or when travelling (to prevent frauds and theft) if
    >you keep only a small amount on it.

These are often used in the US so that parents can give their kids
some kind of a card but limit spending.

    >The other one is called "revolving" (like that in Italian :-)), and I've
    >never really understood how it works, but looks like a rip-off.

I think maybe thats like the typical credit card outside of Italy. It
shouldn't be a ripoff at all if you pay your balance promptly. In the
US, it's often totally free and those who keep it paid off are
subsidized by the negligent and the profligate.


--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Giovanni Drogo

Back to topic.

Yesterday's economic supplement of Corriere della Sera featured an
article in which a journalist reported that he, or a friend of his, was
unable to change or spend a 500 euro note at several shops in Holland.
The guy then went to an ABN Amro counter, and they said they'd change it
only for their customers, and directed him to a nearby "private"
currency exchange. The latter wanted a 4% commission (at the end
suggested buying a 20 euro phone card). The guy refused and went back to
the bank, and they directed him to the Bank of Holland.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] is a newsreading account used by more persons to
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Giovanni Drogo

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006, B Vaughan wrote:

    > Normal credit cards in the US and, I believe, in all other countries
[but Italy ?]
    > don't deduct charges automatically from your bank account.

    > Maybe this is what you call a "revolving account".

It's not me. They are called like that by those who advertise them.

    > >The other one is called "revolving" (like that in Italian :-)), and I've
    > >never really understood how it works, but looks like a rip-off.
    >
    > I think maybe thats like the typical credit card outside of Italy. It
    > shouldn't be a ripoff at all if you pay your balance promptly. In the

According to what I read on a consumer newsgroup, a revolving card is
not issued or backed by a normal bank, but by a "finanziaria", i.e. a
loan agency, of the sort which offers "credit to consumers" e.g. when
you buy household appliances in instalments. I do not have the need
for loans, and I'm feeling that, if somebody can't afford to buy
something, he should not buy it, not get a poorly transparent loan.

There is even a major home electronics chain which is currently
offering a 15% discount if you buy now, and pay in instalments after
6 months. Apparently after such period you'll receive also a
"revolving card". The consumer NG members feel smell of cheating.

    > apply for like a credit card. Another difference is that the
    > Bankamericard in the US (unless you have silver or gold level or
    > something) doesn't usually have any annual fee.

Credit card fees in Italy seems to vary with time and personal
arrangements. As bank account fees. As I said there was a time when
there were no fees on an account, and you'd even got a substantial
interest. At the very beginning of the credit card era in Italy the
fees were very small or nil, anyhow compensated by the interests
you got keeping the money on the account until the payment (which
at the time was delayed by 2 months). Then there was a time there
was a large stamp duty on credit card (tax). Nowadays there is
usually an annual fee, but sometimes it is waived.

I remember that a few years ago I was not charged the fee, I asked
my bank consultant, she looked in my files and said the bank has
cancelled it forever. Then I changed account conditions, and the
fee was repristinated, included in the monthly fee (which had
anyhow an 80% discount). Since last summer I am getting a 100%
discount ("motu proprio" of the bank).

    > >I do not see much difference between what you call debit cards and
    > >Pagobancomat (the POS function associated to [I believe] all Bancomat

    > Except I don't think you could use a Pagobancomat card to make a
    > purchase over the phone or on the internet, whereas the debit card can
    > be used as if were a normal credit card.

I have no idea since my card, and most I've seen here, are multifunction
and labelled with the logo of several "circuits" at a time.


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] is a newsreading account used by more persons to
avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected.
Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.

Martin

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:46:38 +0100, Giovanni Drogo
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Back to topic.
    >Yesterday's economic supplement of Corriere della Sera featured an
    >article in which a journalist reported that he, or a friend of his, was
    >unable to change or spend a 500 euro note at several shops in Holland.
    >The guy then went to an ABN Amro counter, and they said they'd change it
    >only for their customers, and directed him to a nearby "private"
    >currency exchange. The latter wanted a 4% commission (at the end
    >suggested buying a 20 euro phone card). The guy refused and went back to
    >the bank, and they directed him to the Bank of Holland.

Netherlands Bank would have been better.

You might enjoy reading this
http://wordswillnothelpyou.blogspot.com/
--

Martin

Tim C .

Following up to Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]> :

    >You "load" it with an amount and can
    >spend until that expires or you refill it.

That's the "Quick" function on the cashpoint/atm/bankomat cards here.
Electronic purse etc.
--
Tim C.

Martin

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:34:22 +0100, Tim C. <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]> :
    >>You "load" it with an amount and can
    >>spend until that expires or you refill it.
    >That's the "Quick" function on the cashpoint/atm/bankomat cards here.
    >Electronic purse etc.

Chip Knip in NL. Lose your card and lose all the credit on it too. I also had
my credit wiped by one machine. I see no advantage in using the feature.
--

Martin

Tim C .

Following up to Martin <[email protected]> :

    >On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:34:22 +0100, Tim C. <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Following up to Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]> :
    >>>You "load" it with an amount and can
    >>>spend until that expires or you refill it.
    >>That's the "Quick" function on the cashpoint/atm/bankomat cards here.
    >>Electronic purse etc.
    >Chip Knip in NL. Lose your card and lose all the credit on it too. I also had
    >my credit wiped by one machine. I see no advantage in using the feature.

Me neither.
There's no security, you don't have to enter a PIN even. No proof of how
much is on it - as you say lose the card and the money's gone too.

It's on the same card as my cashpoint/bankomat so I can use that.
Any machines that use Quick can normally use the cashpoint function. I have
about €5 on it for pay-and-display car parks for when I'm short of small
change. That's it. I don't use it otherwise.
--
Tim C.

mini Mini

Tim C. <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Following up to Martin <[email protected]> :
    >
    >>On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:34:22 +0100, Tim C. <[email protected]>
    >>wrote:
    >>>Following up to Giovanni Drogo <[email protected]> :
    >>>>You "load" it with an amount and can
    >>>>spend until that expires or you refill it.
    >>>That's the "Quick" function on the cashpoint/atm/bankomat cards here.
    >>>Electronic purse etc.
    >>Chip Knip in NL. Lose your card and lose all the credit on it too. I
    >>also had my credit wiped by one machine. I see no advantage in using
    >>the feature.
    >
    > Me neither.
    > There's no security, you don't have to enter a PIN even. No proof of
    > how much is on it - as you say lose the card and the money's gone too.
    >
    > It's on the same card as my cashpoint/bankomat so I can use that.
    > Any machines that use Quick can normally use the cashpoint function. I
    > have about €5 on it for pay-and-display car parks for when I'm short
    > of small change. That's it. I don't use it otherwise.

Oh. I love my "CASH" chip thing. I used it often when I don't have any
coins to pay the parking meter or the bus ticket. You can tell how much
cash is on it at the ATM or on any of the machines that take payments with
it. I only load 15CHF at a time, so, if I lose it, it's not the end of the
world.

Tim C .

Following up to mini Mini <[email protected]> :

    >Oh. I love my "CASH" chip thing. I used it often when I don't have any
    >coins to pay the parking meter

That's all I use mine for, occasionally.
--
Tim C.

David Horne

mini Mini <[email protected]> wrote:

[]
    > Oh. I love my "CASH" chip thing. I used it often when I don't have any
    > coins to pay the parking meter or the bus ticket. You can tell how much
    > cash is on it at the ATM or on any of the machines that take payments with
    > it. I only load 15CHF at a time, so, if I lose it, it's not the end of the
    > world.

It sounds like a brilliant idea. I find the oyster card great for my
visits for London, and I think that there are plans afoot to widen this
to cover shop purchases etc.

--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://www.davidhorne.net/pictures.html http://soundjunction.org