Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
Mar 25th 2004, 8:07 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
"howard" <[email protected]> wrote
> So....you're admitting you were as irresponsible as she was ? And you're
> claiming to be the educated one ?
> I guess you're easily dominated.
Yes, I was inexperienced, and I trusted her, and that was stupid. In
that sense I was irresponsible and did not have education.
Are you one of the people that go along with this talk of some of the
Cubans: "We never do anything wrong, it is all to blame on Fidel,
communism and the dirty sex tourists"? This story has more nuances, I
tell you.
> So....you're admitting you were as irresponsible as she was ? And you're
> claiming to be the educated one ?
> I guess you're easily dominated.
Yes, I was inexperienced, and I trusted her, and that was stupid. In
that sense I was irresponsible and did not have education.
Are you one of the people that go along with this talk of some of the
Cubans: "We never do anything wrong, it is all to blame on Fidel,
communism and the dirty sex tourists"? This story has more nuances, I
tell you.
Mar 25th 2004, 8:17 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
"howard" <[email protected]> wrote
> Don't believe all you read, Castro & the legend of Che are still
> VERY popular.
How they really think is hard to say. I guess you can better say that
tourists are very popular. They are the way to visa and dollars in a
communist country. Cubans will do much to be friends with a tourist
and if you are left, it is for the blockade and Fidel is great, if you
are right it is the blame of communism, and Fidel is bad. You should
prick this bubble a little.
> Don't believe all you read, Castro & the legend of Che are still
> VERY popular.
How they really think is hard to say. I guess you can better say that
tourists are very popular. They are the way to visa and dollars in a
communist country. Cubans will do much to be friends with a tourist
and if you are left, it is for the blockade and Fidel is great, if you
are right it is the blame of communism, and Fidel is bad. You should
prick this bubble a little.
Mar 25th 2004, 12:59 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
howard wrote:
> You're not interested the evidence !? (Neither is the Bush admin!)
Aw don't pick on poor old Dubya. He is busy comtemplating where he is
going to live next year.
Becca
> You're not interested the evidence !? (Neither is the Bush admin!)
Aw don't pick on poor old Dubya. He is busy comtemplating where he is
going to live next year.
Becca
Mar 25th 2004, 6:10 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
"Ken Tough" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Kurt Ullman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>Until you can understand what its like for a whole generation, to grow
> >>up under a vicious trade embargo by the US, that stops them importing
> >>and exporting everything from medicine to sugar.....
> > Medicines and foodstuffs have always been outside the ban. Also the
ban
> >doesn't impact on exporting to Canada, Mexico, S. America, Europe,
Asia....
> The restrictions on medicine (according to a cuban) make it
> extremely difficult in practice. They are actually required to
> keep a paper trail down the end user for each individual dose of
> antibiotic or whatever.
> Also, the ban does impact on Canada and other countries, by design.
> Ships which call into Cuba are not allowed into port in the US,
> which can make logistics very difficult. Companies which trade
> with cuba are blacklisted for trade in the US. Nonetheless,
> canadians did force Walmart to reverse its policy on selling
> cuban made pyjamas, and they haven't been closed down yet.
> --
> Ken Tough
I agree, nice to have educated people here ! ;-)
There's some interesting stuff here....
www.pugwash.org/reports/ees/ees8e.htm
news:[email protected]...
> Kurt Ullman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>Until you can understand what its like for a whole generation, to grow
> >>up under a vicious trade embargo by the US, that stops them importing
> >>and exporting everything from medicine to sugar.....
> > Medicines and foodstuffs have always been outside the ban. Also the
ban
> >doesn't impact on exporting to Canada, Mexico, S. America, Europe,
Asia....
> The restrictions on medicine (according to a cuban) make it
> extremely difficult in practice. They are actually required to
> keep a paper trail down the end user for each individual dose of
> antibiotic or whatever.
> Also, the ban does impact on Canada and other countries, by design.
> Ships which call into Cuba are not allowed into port in the US,
> which can make logistics very difficult. Companies which trade
> with cuba are blacklisted for trade in the US. Nonetheless,
> canadians did force Walmart to reverse its policy on selling
> cuban made pyjamas, and they haven't been closed down yet.
> --
> Ken Tough
I agree, nice to have educated people here ! ;-)
There's some interesting stuff here....
www.pugwash.org/reports/ees/ees8e.htm
Mar 25th 2004, 6:12 pm
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
"Becca" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> howard wrote:
> > You're not interested the evidence !? (Neither is the Bush admin!)
> Aw don't pick on poor old Dubya. He is busy comtemplating where he is
> going to live next year.
> Becca
He could do with a nice_long_holiday in...........Iraq !! ;-)
news:[email protected]...
> howard wrote:
> > You're not interested the evidence !? (Neither is the Bush admin!)
> Aw don't pick on poor old Dubya. He is busy comtemplating where he is
> going to live next year.
> Becca
He could do with a nice_long_holiday in...........Iraq !! ;-)
Mar 25th 2004, 6:25 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
"Ken Tough" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> howard <[email protected]> wrote:
> I know they are, I have spent time there. And like in
> eastern europe, people are actually idologically dedicated
> to communism and the cause, not just by indoctrination but
> because they do understand and see that though everybody has
> it worse than those who live best in most central american
> countries, there are also no people living on garbage dumps.
> I have seen that, too. It is very desperate.
When I went to Cuba, I found I had to re-define my meaning
of 'poverty'. When you look deeper into their society, I
kinda think theirs is 'richer'. Low crime, a healthy sense
of community spirit, all missing from my country now.
They all know their neighbours, most of *us* don't.
> >> Seems to me you're better off visiting, staying in private
> >> B&B and eating in the private restaurants. The money goes to
> >> the people themselves,
> >
> >The owners of Casa Particulars (B&B) have to pay tax, about $200 a
> >month, even if they don't have tourists staying there. So the
> >government get quite a bit, sorry.
> Yes, I know. Though of course there are plenty who don't
> pay the tax and don't have the license. You can choose which
> ones you go to. The ones who are licensed have to pay a fixed
> license, so you can consider that the money you are giving them
> is part of the portion which actually goes into their pocket.
Also I think one of the reasons the internet is generally banned , is
because the ones who have access have an unfair advantage over
the ones that don't, they seem to care about social fairness, unlike
most countries.
Anyway, Im going again in 3 weeks, WOO-HOO !!
H.
news:[email protected]...
> howard <[email protected]> wrote:
> I know they are, I have spent time there. And like in
> eastern europe, people are actually idologically dedicated
> to communism and the cause, not just by indoctrination but
> because they do understand and see that though everybody has
> it worse than those who live best in most central american
> countries, there are also no people living on garbage dumps.
> I have seen that, too. It is very desperate.
When I went to Cuba, I found I had to re-define my meaning
of 'poverty'. When you look deeper into their society, I
kinda think theirs is 'richer'. Low crime, a healthy sense
of community spirit, all missing from my country now.
They all know their neighbours, most of *us* don't.
> >> Seems to me you're better off visiting, staying in private
> >> B&B and eating in the private restaurants. The money goes to
> >> the people themselves,
> >
> >The owners of Casa Particulars (B&B) have to pay tax, about $200 a
> >month, even if they don't have tourists staying there. So the
> >government get quite a bit, sorry.
> Yes, I know. Though of course there are plenty who don't
> pay the tax and don't have the license. You can choose which
> ones you go to. The ones who are licensed have to pay a fixed
> license, so you can consider that the money you are giving them
> is part of the portion which actually goes into their pocket.
Also I think one of the reasons the internet is generally banned , is
because the ones who have access have an unfair advantage over
the ones that don't, they seem to care about social fairness, unlike
most countries.
Anyway, Im going again in 3 weeks, WOO-HOO !!
H.
Mar 25th 2004, 6:38 pm
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
"Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "howard" <[email protected]> wrote
> > Don't believe all you read, Castro & the legend of Che are still
> > VERY popular.
> How they really think is hard to say. I guess you can better say that
> tourists are very popular. They are the way to visa and dollars in a
> communist country. Cubans will do much to be friends with a tourist
> and if you are left, it is for the blockade and Fidel is great, if you
> are right it is the blame of communism, and Fidel is bad. You should
> prick this bubble a little.
Cuba's development is being stifled from outside. Until it stops, you
can't blame the Cubans, Castro, communism, or tourism. I don't anyway.
I prefer to admire their achievements...
www.pugwash.org/reports/ees/ees8e.htm
H.
news:[email protected]...
> "howard" <[email protected]> wrote
> > Don't believe all you read, Castro & the legend of Che are still
> > VERY popular.
> How they really think is hard to say. I guess you can better say that
> tourists are very popular. They are the way to visa and dollars in a
> communist country. Cubans will do much to be friends with a tourist
> and if you are left, it is for the blockade and Fidel is great, if you
> are right it is the blame of communism, and Fidel is bad. You should
> prick this bubble a little.
Cuba's development is being stifled from outside. Until it stops, you
can't blame the Cubans, Castro, communism, or tourism. I don't anyway.
I prefer to admire their achievements...
www.pugwash.org/reports/ees/ees8e.htm
H.
Mar 26th 2004, 11:05 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:10:19 -0000, "howard" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Can we see the evidence please , sure they were *only* writers ?
>Have you heard both sides of the story ? Or aren't you interested
>in both sides ?
No problem - but let's not ignore that your rhetoric is backwards.
Were you being intellectually honest, you would not imply that
Castro's victims are not as I described them, but instead you would
show your evidence that they are not . . . However, here's but one of
the thousands of online sources available to those in free societies
who care to look.
http://www.ifex.org/en/content/view/full/57578
and for an insight into the conditions in those prisons, see:
http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/2004/Va...ez_Portal.html
Is there a side that says they are not writers and published
dissidents? Is there a side that says that it's OK for a government to
imprison and even kill anyone for questioning and criticizing it? Is
there a side that says it''s OK to punish and harrass the families of
those victims as well?
What side is that?
CaribeJoe - Moderator
Non-commercial My Caribbean.Info Forums
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Post your own trip reports and photos
Hotel and Air Deals and Rough Guide Reports
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wrote:
>Can we see the evidence please , sure they were *only* writers ?
>Have you heard both sides of the story ? Or aren't you interested
>in both sides ?
No problem - but let's not ignore that your rhetoric is backwards.
Were you being intellectually honest, you would not imply that
Castro's victims are not as I described them, but instead you would
show your evidence that they are not . . . However, here's but one of
the thousands of online sources available to those in free societies
who care to look.
http://www.ifex.org/en/content/view/full/57578
and for an insight into the conditions in those prisons, see:
http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/2004/Va...ez_Portal.html
Is there a side that says they are not writers and published
dissidents? Is there a side that says that it's OK for a government to
imprison and even kill anyone for questioning and criticizing it? Is
there a side that says it''s OK to punish and harrass the families of
those victims as well?
What side is that?
CaribeJoe - Moderator
Non-commercial My Caribbean.Info Forums
Free Caribbean Destination Directories
Free advice from Travel Writers
Post your own trip reports and photos
Hotel and Air Deals and Rough Guide Reports
http://www.mycaribbean.info
Mar 26th 2004, 6:42 pm
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:10:19 -0000, "howard" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >Can we see the evidence please , sure they were *only* writers ?
> >Have you heard both sides of the story ? Or aren't you interested
> >in both sides ?
> No problem - but let's not ignore that your rhetoric is backwards.
> Were you being intellectually honest, you would not imply that
> Castro's victims are not as I described them, but instead you would
> show your evidence that they are not . . . However, here's but one of
> the thousands of online sources available to those in free societies
> who care to look.
> http://www.ifex.org/en/content/view/full/57578
> and for an insight into the conditions in those prisons, see:
> http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/2004/Va...ez_Portal.html
> Is there a side that says they are not writers and published
> dissidents? Is there a side that says that it's OK for a government to
> imprison and even kill anyone for questioning and criticizing it? Is
> there a side that says it''s OK to punish and harrass the families of
> those victims as well?
Unfortunately all the sources you've found are from Cuban exiles in
Florida. They have axes to grind, are only interested in toppling Castro.
They are supported and financed by Washington.
If you want to hear more from Cuban exiles in Florida, I can recommend
soc.culture.cuba , it's full of them. It's also full of lies !
You disappoint me!
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:10:19 -0000, "howard" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >Can we see the evidence please , sure they were *only* writers ?
> >Have you heard both sides of the story ? Or aren't you interested
> >in both sides ?
> No problem - but let's not ignore that your rhetoric is backwards.
> Were you being intellectually honest, you would not imply that
> Castro's victims are not as I described them, but instead you would
> show your evidence that they are not . . . However, here's but one of
> the thousands of online sources available to those in free societies
> who care to look.
> http://www.ifex.org/en/content/view/full/57578
> and for an insight into the conditions in those prisons, see:
> http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/2004/Va...ez_Portal.html
> Is there a side that says they are not writers and published
> dissidents? Is there a side that says that it's OK for a government to
> imprison and even kill anyone for questioning and criticizing it? Is
> there a side that says it''s OK to punish and harrass the families of
> those victims as well?
Unfortunately all the sources you've found are from Cuban exiles in
Florida. They have axes to grind, are only interested in toppling Castro.
They are supported and financed by Washington.
If you want to hear more from Cuban exiles in Florida, I can recommend
soc.culture.cuba , it's full of them. It's also full of lies !
You disappoint me!
Mar 27th 2004, 2:10 pm
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
On 24 Mar 2004 02:46:51 -0800, [email protected] (Marc) wrote:
>They think: I am
>not a prostitute, since I do not ask money for it, only some 'support
>since I am poor',
LOL
Yeah, right.
>They think: I am
>not a prostitute, since I do not ask money for it, only some 'support
>since I am poor',
LOL
Yeah, right.
Mar 27th 2004, 8:36 pm
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
>>>y think: I amnot a prostitute, since I do not
>>ask money for it, only some 'support
>>since I am poor',
> LOL
> Yeah, right.
Don't tangle with Chrissy on this issue - when it comes to prostitution,
it's become clear that she knows her stuff!
Of course, one may reasonably deduce from her talk that half the men in the
Caribbean also know her "stuff," as it were......
>>ask money for it, only some 'support
>>since I am poor',
> LOL
> Yeah, right.
Don't tangle with Chrissy on this issue - when it comes to prostitution,
it's become clear that she knows her stuff!
Of course, one may reasonably deduce from her talk that half the men in the
Caribbean also know her "stuff," as it were......
Mar 28th 2004, 7:13 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
"Steve Caswell" <[email protected]> wrote
> Don't tangle with Chrissy on this issue - when it comes to prostitution,
> it's become clear that she knows her stuff!
If any prostitute 'knows her stuff', she would not do what this girl
in Cuba did! So if Chrissy is a prostitute, one can at least trust her
in not getting any STD's!
> Don't tangle with Chrissy on this issue - when it comes to prostitution,
> it's become clear that she knows her stuff!
If any prostitute 'knows her stuff', she would not do what this girl
in Cuba did! So if Chrissy is a prostitute, one can at least trust her
in not getting any STD's!
Mar 28th 2004, 7:27 pm
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
"howard" <[email protected]> wrote
> Cuba's development is being stifled from outside. Until it stops, you
> can't blame the Cubans, Castro, communism, or tourism.
The American blockade as well as Castro are used as an excuse by the
Cubans. Everything bad that happends on the island is never their
fault. If they find out you are left winged, the Americans are the
blame, if they think you are right winged, it's Castro. Meanwhile the
people themselves can take a look in the mirror sometimes too.
> I don't anyway.
I see that.
> I prefer to admire their achievements...
Don't you think this is a very humble attitude that gives you no space
for critizism?
> Cuba's development is being stifled from outside. Until it stops, you
> can't blame the Cubans, Castro, communism, or tourism.
The American blockade as well as Castro are used as an excuse by the
Cubans. Everything bad that happends on the island is never their
fault. If they find out you are left winged, the Americans are the
blame, if they think you are right winged, it's Castro. Meanwhile the
people themselves can take a look in the mirror sometimes too.
> I don't anyway.
I see that.
> I prefer to admire their achievements...
Don't you think this is a very humble attitude that gives you no space
for critizism?
Mar 28th 2004, 7:51 pm
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
"howard" <[email protected]> wrote
> When I went to Cuba
You must go a few times to see what is really going there.
> Low crime
Penalties are exteme high. You will get 30 years of prison if you
slaugter a cow and try to sell it on the black market. 10 years for
having a few grams of marihuana. Et cetera.
>, a healthy sense
> of community spirit
Yes it is: we Cubans, we Cubans. Disadvantage is that you can not make
clear to them that other people in the can have problems too. They
seem to think that because they are one of the few people under
communist rule, they are the only ones that are poor. I have seen a
lot of problems in for example Brazil, that are worse. Nevertheless
they seem to think, because they see only tourist from that country,
that everybody outside Cuba, must be loaded with cash. It is the lack
of information in the communist system that gives them a very strange
view on the world.
> They all know their neighbours, most of *us* don't.
This is simular in most latin american countries where people life
outside, it's a bit warmer climate. It's nice but not really special
for Cuba.
> Anyway, Im going again in 3 weeks, WOO-HOO !!
Please do not just admire them, but keep your eyes open. The
admiration can blind your view. I would like to see you back in one
piece. Crime is not that high in Cuba, but not that uncommon either.
> When I went to Cuba
You must go a few times to see what is really going there.
> Low crime
Penalties are exteme high. You will get 30 years of prison if you
slaugter a cow and try to sell it on the black market. 10 years for
having a few grams of marihuana. Et cetera.
>, a healthy sense
> of community spirit
Yes it is: we Cubans, we Cubans. Disadvantage is that you can not make
clear to them that other people in the can have problems too. They
seem to think that because they are one of the few people under
communist rule, they are the only ones that are poor. I have seen a
lot of problems in for example Brazil, that are worse. Nevertheless
they seem to think, because they see only tourist from that country,
that everybody outside Cuba, must be loaded with cash. It is the lack
of information in the communist system that gives them a very strange
view on the world.
> They all know their neighbours, most of *us* don't.
This is simular in most latin american countries where people life
outside, it's a bit warmer climate. It's nice but not really special
for Cuba.
> Anyway, Im going again in 3 weeks, WOO-HOO !!
Please do not just admire them, but keep your eyes open. The
admiration can blind your view. I would like to see you back in one
piece. Crime is not that high in Cuba, but not that uncommon either.
Mar 28th 2004, 7:52 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Would you like to meet the fantastic island of Cuba?
"howard" <[email protected]> wrote
> When I went to Cuba
You must go a few times to see what is really going there.
> Low crime
Penalties are exteme high. You will get 30 years of prison if you
slaugter a cow and try to sell it on the black market. 10 years for
having a few grams of marihuana. Et cetera.
>, a healthy sense
> of community spirit
Yes it is: we Cubans, we Cubans. Disadvantage is that you can not make
clear to them that other people in the can have problems too. They
seem to think that because they are one of the few people under
communist rule, they are the only ones that are poor. I have seen a
lot of problems in for example Brazil, that are worse. Nevertheless
they seem to think, because they see only tourist from that country,
that everybody outside Cuba, must be loaded with cash. It is the lack
of information in the communist system that gives them a very strange
view on the world.
> They all know their neighbours, most of *us* don't.
This is simular in most latin american countries where people life
outside, it's a bit warmer climate. It's nice but not really special
for Cuba.
> Anyway, Im going again in 3 weeks, WOO-HOO !!
Please do not just admire them, but keep your eyes open. The
admiration can blind your view. I would like to see you back in one
piece. Crime is not that high in Cuba, but not that uncommon either.
> When I went to Cuba
You must go a few times to see what is really going there.
> Low crime
Penalties are exteme high. You will get 30 years of prison if you
slaugter a cow and try to sell it on the black market. 10 years for
having a few grams of marihuana. Et cetera.
>, a healthy sense
> of community spirit
Yes it is: we Cubans, we Cubans. Disadvantage is that you can not make
clear to them that other people in the can have problems too. They
seem to think that because they are one of the few people under
communist rule, they are the only ones that are poor. I have seen a
lot of problems in for example Brazil, that are worse. Nevertheless
they seem to think, because they see only tourist from that country,
that everybody outside Cuba, must be loaded with cash. It is the lack
of information in the communist system that gives them a very strange
view on the world.
> They all know their neighbours, most of *us* don't.
This is simular in most latin american countries where people life
outside, it's a bit warmer climate. It's nice but not really special
for Cuba.
> Anyway, Im going again in 3 weeks, WOO-HOO !!
Please do not just admire them, but keep your eyes open. The
admiration can blind your view. I would like to see you back in one
piece. Crime is not that high in Cuba, but not that uncommon either.