Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
Mar 2nd 2004, 6:44 am
#91
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Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
Raffi Balmanoukian wrote:
> in article [email protected], AKM at
> [email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 3:05 PM:
>
>
>>mtravelkay wrote:
>>>15 years ago, while on a temp assignment in LA while working at IBM in
>>>Austin. during the development of AIX/PS2 at Locus Software in the
>>>Herbel Life building, I was staying at the Marriott LAX. One night a
>>>bunch of us were coming back from dinner. In front of the hotel was a
>>>body draped in a sheet. Apparently, someone jumped from the 14th floor,
>>>presumably because there was no 13th floor.
>>If you correct for the American way of counting floors, would it be only
>>the 12th?
>
>
> Nah, the 14th would be the 13th. What the rest of the world knows as the
> "first floor" is the ground floor in N.Am.
But in this case, there is no floor labeled as "13th floor" at this
hotel, which would be the twelth floor in Europe. So, the 14th floor is
really the 13th floor in the US way, and it is the 12th floor if
numbered the civilized way.
> in article [email protected], AKM at
> [email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 3:05 PM:
>
>
>>mtravelkay wrote:
>>>15 years ago, while on a temp assignment in LA while working at IBM in
>>>Austin. during the development of AIX/PS2 at Locus Software in the
>>>Herbel Life building, I was staying at the Marriott LAX. One night a
>>>bunch of us were coming back from dinner. In front of the hotel was a
>>>body draped in a sheet. Apparently, someone jumped from the 14th floor,
>>>presumably because there was no 13th floor.
>>If you correct for the American way of counting floors, would it be only
>>the 12th?
>
>
> Nah, the 14th would be the 13th. What the rest of the world knows as the
> "first floor" is the ground floor in N.Am.
But in this case, there is no floor labeled as "13th floor" at this
hotel, which would be the twelth floor in Europe. So, the 14th floor is
really the 13th floor in the US way, and it is the 12th floor if
numbered the civilized way.
Mar 2nd 2004, 7:04 am
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
in article [email protected], mtravelkay at
[email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 3:44 PM:
>
>
> Raffi Balmanoukian wrote:
>> in article [email protected], AKM at
>> [email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 3:05 PM:
>>
>>
>>> mtravelkay wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> 15 years ago, while on a temp assignment in LA while working at IBM in
>>>> Austin. during the development of AIX/PS2 at Locus Software in the
>>>> Herbel Life building, I was staying at the Marriott LAX. One night a
>>>> bunch of us were coming back from dinner. In front of the hotel was a
>>>> body draped in a sheet. Apparently, someone jumped from the 14th floor,
>>>> presumably because there was no 13th floor.
>>>
>>> If you correct for the American way of counting floors, would it be only
>>> the 12th?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nah, the 14th would be the 13th. What the rest of the world knows as the
>> "first floor" is the ground floor in N.Am.
>
> But in this case, there is no floor labeled as "13th floor" at this
> hotel, which would be the twelth floor in Europe. So, the 14th floor is
> really the 13th floor in the US way, and it is the 12th floor if
> numbered the civilized way.
>
mmm-hmmm. See follow up posting.
[email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 3:44 PM:
>
>
> Raffi Balmanoukian wrote:
>> in article [email protected], AKM at
>> [email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 3:05 PM:
>>
>>
>>> mtravelkay wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> 15 years ago, while on a temp assignment in LA while working at IBM in
>>>> Austin. during the development of AIX/PS2 at Locus Software in the
>>>> Herbel Life building, I was staying at the Marriott LAX. One night a
>>>> bunch of us were coming back from dinner. In front of the hotel was a
>>>> body draped in a sheet. Apparently, someone jumped from the 14th floor,
>>>> presumably because there was no 13th floor.
>>>
>>> If you correct for the American way of counting floors, would it be only
>>> the 12th?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nah, the 14th would be the 13th. What the rest of the world knows as the
>> "first floor" is the ground floor in N.Am.
>
> But in this case, there is no floor labeled as "13th floor" at this
> hotel, which would be the twelth floor in Europe. So, the 14th floor is
> really the 13th floor in the US way, and it is the 12th floor if
> numbered the civilized way.
>
mmm-hmmm. See follow up posting.
Mar 2nd 2004, 8:08 am
#93
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Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
In rec.travel.australia+nz Olivers <[email protected]> wrote:
> Catering to the supposedly tenderer sensibilities of the cabin crew, surely
> mostly female (and with a good chance that one or more of the males among
> them might be light in his loafers), the line provided them a free ride,
> while forcing the cockpit slaves to function almost as if they had not been
> in the van projectilized by the falling body.
A devastating analysis, only let down by the fact that the cockpit crew were
not in the affected van, only the cabin crew were.
> Catering to the supposedly tenderer sensibilities of the cabin crew, surely
> mostly female (and with a good chance that one or more of the males among
> them might be light in his loafers), the line provided them a free ride,
> while forcing the cockpit slaves to function almost as if they had not been
> in the van projectilized by the falling body.
A devastating analysis, only let down by the fact that the cockpit crew were
not in the affected van, only the cabin crew were.
Mar 2nd 2004, 8:09 am
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
In rec.travel.australia+nz Raffi Balmanoukian <[email protected] a> wrote:
> in article %[email protected], Jim Davis Sr. at
> [email protected] wrote on 3/1/04 9:09 PM:
>>
>> "Raffi Balmanoukian" <[email protected] a>
>> wrote in message
>> news:BC68DDEF.214AE%[email protected]...
>>
>>> As for suing....NZ should consider going after the estate of the deceased
>>> for all of its damages, including the dent in the van 8-)
>>
>> Go after the Estate? Oh Gawd! The guy probably had nothing, or very
>> little.
> Not if he had insurance payable to his estate.
Life insurance is usually void in the case of suicide.
> in article %[email protected], Jim Davis Sr. at
> [email protected] wrote on 3/1/04 9:09 PM:
>>
>> "Raffi Balmanoukian" <[email protected] a>
>> wrote in message
>> news:BC68DDEF.214AE%[email protected]...
>>
>>> As for suing....NZ should consider going after the estate of the deceased
>>> for all of its damages, including the dent in the van 8-)
>>
>> Go after the Estate? Oh Gawd! The guy probably had nothing, or very
>> little.
> Not if he had insurance payable to his estate.
Life insurance is usually void in the case of suicide.
Mar 2nd 2004, 8:19 am
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
in article [email protected], Geoff McCaughan at
[email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 5:09 PM:
> In rec.travel.australia+nz Raffi Balmanoukian
> <[email protected] a> wrote:
>> in article %[email protected], Jim Davis Sr. at
>> [email protected] wrote on 3/1/04 9:09 PM:
>
>>>
>>> "Raffi Balmanoukian" <[email protected] a>
>>> wrote in message
>>> news:BC68DDEF.214AE%[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> As for suing....NZ should consider going after the estate of the deceased
>>>> for all of its damages, including the dent in the van 8-)
>>>
>>> Go after the Estate? Oh Gawd! The guy probably had nothing, or very
>>> little.
>
>> Not if he had insurance payable to his estate.
>
> Life insurance is usually void in the case of suicide.
Often only for the first two years of the policy, at least in N.Am.
[email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 5:09 PM:
> In rec.travel.australia+nz Raffi Balmanoukian
> <[email protected] a> wrote:
>> in article %[email protected], Jim Davis Sr. at
>> [email protected] wrote on 3/1/04 9:09 PM:
>
>>>
>>> "Raffi Balmanoukian" <[email protected] a>
>>> wrote in message
>>> news:BC68DDEF.214AE%[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> As for suing....NZ should consider going after the estate of the deceased
>>>> for all of its damages, including the dent in the van 8-)
>>>
>>> Go after the Estate? Oh Gawd! The guy probably had nothing, or very
>>> little.
>
>> Not if he had insurance payable to his estate.
>
> Life insurance is usually void in the case of suicide.
Often only for the first two years of the policy, at least in N.Am.
Mar 2nd 2004, 8:35 am
#96
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Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 01:04:58 -0700, matt weber <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:50:43 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>>Max Burke <mlvburke@%$%#@.nz> wrote:
>>> Some of the crew were prepared to work the flight, but it was Air NZ
>>> management that sent them all home on an empty plane... Sending the
>>> aircraft back to NZ empty would have cost Air NZ a lot more that just the
>>> crew's wages they paid out...
>>Here's what I don't understand - wouldn't it have been cheaper to pay for a
>>parking spot for 14 hours and fly a new crew out? The traumatized crew could
>>head home on Qantas.
>It is complex, but if they had to fly a crew in, the delay would
>probably have been 24 hours or more, meanwhile, you do have the
>aircraft slated to go somewhere else from Auckland. In terms of
>revenue, it may be better to send the aircraft home empty and just pay
>for one planeload of displaced passengers instead of two.
Plus we don't know:
a) how many passengers were displaced
b) how many seats were available on alternate flights departing that
day.
A quick peek shows that after as well as NZ3 there are two more
747-400s operating LAX-AKL (NZ1 and QF26), and that's not considering
passengers en route to other cities (e.g. MEL) that could be re-routed
via (say) SYD.
It strongly sounds like the Air NZ team looked at the options and
figured displacing those passengers was the most viable option.
Malc.
wrote:
>On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 11:50:43 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>>Max Burke <mlvburke@%$%#@.nz> wrote:
>>> Some of the crew were prepared to work the flight, but it was Air NZ
>>> management that sent them all home on an empty plane... Sending the
>>> aircraft back to NZ empty would have cost Air NZ a lot more that just the
>>> crew's wages they paid out...
>>Here's what I don't understand - wouldn't it have been cheaper to pay for a
>>parking spot for 14 hours and fly a new crew out? The traumatized crew could
>>head home on Qantas.
>It is complex, but if they had to fly a crew in, the delay would
>probably have been 24 hours or more, meanwhile, you do have the
>aircraft slated to go somewhere else from Auckland. In terms of
>revenue, it may be better to send the aircraft home empty and just pay
>for one planeload of displaced passengers instead of two.
Plus we don't know:
a) how many passengers were displaced
b) how many seats were available on alternate flights departing that
day.
A quick peek shows that after as well as NZ3 there are two more
747-400s operating LAX-AKL (NZ1 and QF26), and that's not considering
passengers en route to other cities (e.g. MEL) that could be re-routed
via (say) SYD.
It strongly sounds like the Air NZ team looked at the options and
figured displacing those passengers was the most viable option.
Malc.
Mar 2nd 2004, 8:37 am
#97
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Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
"Raffi Balmanoukian" <[email protected] a>
wrote in message
news:BC6A7543.21571%[email protected]...
> in article [email protected], Geoff McCaughan at
> [email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 5:09 PM:
> >
> > Life insurance is usually void in the case of suicide.
> Often only for the first two years of the policy, at least in N.Am.
13 months in most NZ policies
wrote in message
news:BC6A7543.21571%[email protected]...
> in article [email protected], Geoff McCaughan at
> [email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 5:09 PM:
> >
> > Life insurance is usually void in the case of suicide.
> Often only for the first two years of the policy, at least in N.Am.
13 months in most NZ policies
Mar 2nd 2004, 8:44 am
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:06:11 -0700, matt weber <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>The decision was made to fly the Boeing 747-400 back to Auckland with
>>only the 13 crew and in-flight service director on board. An airline
>>spokesman said the cost of flying the aircraft home without passengers
>>would have been "up to $50,000".
>Somebody's arithmetic is more than a bit suspect... Two ways of
>looking at this, but for starters, it is a 6500 mile mission, so about
>12 hours, and about 240,000 pouns of Jet A, or about 37,000 gallons,
>at current rates that is about 33,000USD just for the fuel. That says
>nothing about landing fees, maintenance, or anything else.
>The other way is to look at NZ's ASM cost. It is about 11 US cents,
>and that puts the price at about 280,000USD.
>Either way, NO WAY IT CAN BE DONE FOR ONLY $50,000
Huh? The aircraft was going to fly the route anyway, so landing fees,
maintenance, etc. would have been paid anyway.
Operating empty of passengers (but not, I'd bet, cargo) means that it
would save some fuel, plus catering costs. But those costs would be
borne by the alternate flights (NZ1, QF26, etc.) so that's a wash.
The only additional costs that would be incurred would be the
compensation to the passengers and any incremental costs of having
other carriers like Qantas (or whoever) take their passengers.
I'm not seeing a problem with the $50K number...
Malc.
wrote:
>>The decision was made to fly the Boeing 747-400 back to Auckland with
>>only the 13 crew and in-flight service director on board. An airline
>>spokesman said the cost of flying the aircraft home without passengers
>>would have been "up to $50,000".
>Somebody's arithmetic is more than a bit suspect... Two ways of
>looking at this, but for starters, it is a 6500 mile mission, so about
>12 hours, and about 240,000 pouns of Jet A, or about 37,000 gallons,
>at current rates that is about 33,000USD just for the fuel. That says
>nothing about landing fees, maintenance, or anything else.
>The other way is to look at NZ's ASM cost. It is about 11 US cents,
>and that puts the price at about 280,000USD.
>Either way, NO WAY IT CAN BE DONE FOR ONLY $50,000
Huh? The aircraft was going to fly the route anyway, so landing fees,
maintenance, etc. would have been paid anyway.
Operating empty of passengers (but not, I'd bet, cargo) means that it
would save some fuel, plus catering costs. But those costs would be
borne by the alternate flights (NZ1, QF26, etc.) so that's a wash.
The only additional costs that would be incurred would be the
compensation to the passengers and any incremental costs of having
other carriers like Qantas (or whoever) take their passengers.
I'm not seeing a problem with the $50K number...
Malc.
Mar 2nd 2004, 9:48 am
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
Raffi Balmanoukian wrote:
>
> Does finding a horse's head in my bed count?
I don't think your employer needs to take responsibility for poor dating
choices.
>
> Does finding a horse's head in my bed count?
I don't think your employer needs to take responsibility for poor dating
choices.
Mar 2nd 2004, 9:53 am
#100
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Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
CollectorNZ wrote:
> Recently (like 3 days ago) I had the occasion to hear Air NZ cancel a
> flight from Wgnt due to crew illness and that was that, no other
> explanations.
Slightly more informative than the normal "due to operational
requirements", anyway.
> Recently (like 3 days ago) I had the occasion to hear Air NZ cancel a
> flight from Wgnt due to crew illness and that was that, no other
> explanations.
Slightly more informative than the normal "due to operational
requirements", anyway.
Mar 2nd 2004, 10:12 am
#101
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Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
in article [email protected], alfred at
[email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 6:48 PM:
> Raffi Balmanoukian wrote:
>>
>> Does finding a horse's head in my bed count?
>
> I don't think your employer needs to take responsibility for poor dating
> choices.
>
>
Even more so when I sleep with the boss!
(self-employed.....whatever were you thinking? 8-))
[email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 6:48 PM:
> Raffi Balmanoukian wrote:
>>
>> Does finding a horse's head in my bed count?
>
> I don't think your employer needs to take responsibility for poor dating
> choices.
>
>
Even more so when I sleep with the boss!
(self-employed.....whatever were you thinking? 8-))
Mar 2nd 2004, 10:55 am
#102
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Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
"CollectorNZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just how many people jump of Motorway Bridges in LA
> Try finding the figures
don't know, don't actually want to know
probably near
http://www.cdc.gov/
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/suifacts.htm
or local coroners reports
They do usually try not to hype it too much, media attention is like
an advertisement.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00031539.htm
It does have some fascination, evidence this thread.
People are not fundamentally logical and not machines
no matter how much we try to cast ouselves as such
or try to mould others to that imaginary ideal.
Yet, even machines break.
news:[email protected]...
> Just how many people jump of Motorway Bridges in LA
> Try finding the figures
don't know, don't actually want to know
probably near
http://www.cdc.gov/
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/suifacts.htm
or local coroners reports
They do usually try not to hype it too much, media attention is like
an advertisement.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00031539.htm
It does have some fascination, evidence this thread.
People are not fundamentally logical and not machines
no matter how much we try to cast ouselves as such
or try to mould others to that imaginary ideal.
Yet, even machines break.
Mar 2nd 2004, 11:49 am
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:05:29 GMT, AKM <[email protected]> wrote:
>mtravelkay wrote:
>> 15 years ago, while on a temp assignment in LA while working at IBM in
>> Austin. during the development of AIX/PS2 at Locus Software in the
>> Herbel Life building, I was staying at the Marriott LAX. One night a
>> bunch of us were coming back from dinner. In front of the hotel was a
>> body draped in a sheet. Apparently, someone jumped from the 14th floor,
>> presumably because there was no 13th floor.
>If you correct for the American way of counting floors, would it be only
>the 12th?
No, the 13th. They run from 1-12, skip 13, and start again at 14.
Tarla
****
A word to the wise is infuriating.
--Hunter S. Thompson
>mtravelkay wrote:
>> 15 years ago, while on a temp assignment in LA while working at IBM in
>> Austin. during the development of AIX/PS2 at Locus Software in the
>> Herbel Life building, I was staying at the Marriott LAX. One night a
>> bunch of us were coming back from dinner. In front of the hotel was a
>> body draped in a sheet. Apparently, someone jumped from the 14th floor,
>> presumably because there was no 13th floor.
>If you correct for the American way of counting floors, would it be only
>the 12th?
No, the 13th. They run from 1-12, skip 13, and start again at 14.
Tarla
****
A word to the wise is infuriating.
--Hunter S. Thompson
Mar 2nd 2004, 11:52 am
#104
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:40:40 GMT, Raffi Balmanoukian
<[email protected] a> wrote:
>in article [email protected], AKM at
>[email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 3:05 PM:
>> mtravelkay wrote:
>>
>>> 15 years ago, while on a temp assignment in LA while working at IBM in
>>> Austin. during the development of AIX/PS2 at Locus Software in the
>>> Herbel Life building, I was staying at the Marriott LAX. One night a
>>> bunch of us were coming back from dinner. In front of the hotel was a
>>> body draped in a sheet. Apparently, someone jumped from the 14th floor,
>>> presumably because there was no 13th floor.
>>
>> If you correct for the American way of counting floors, would it be only
>> the 12th?
>>
>>
>Aaah, I get you now. Yes, the 12th in the civilized world.
You're both mistaken. Here in NZ it's called the ground floor. But in
the US, it's called the 1st floor. Floors are numbered. Even the
basements are numbered b1, b2, b3 etc. I always get confused here and
say "I'm going to the 2nd floor." when I mean the first floor off the
ground...since most I've met here call the first floor, the ground
floor.
Tarla
****
A word to the wise is infuriating.
--Hunter S. Thompson
<[email protected] a> wrote:
>in article [email protected], AKM at
>[email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 3:05 PM:
>> mtravelkay wrote:
>>
>>> 15 years ago, while on a temp assignment in LA while working at IBM in
>>> Austin. during the development of AIX/PS2 at Locus Software in the
>>> Herbel Life building, I was staying at the Marriott LAX. One night a
>>> bunch of us were coming back from dinner. In front of the hotel was a
>>> body draped in a sheet. Apparently, someone jumped from the 14th floor,
>>> presumably because there was no 13th floor.
>>
>> If you correct for the American way of counting floors, would it be only
>> the 12th?
>>
>>
>Aaah, I get you now. Yes, the 12th in the civilized world.
You're both mistaken. Here in NZ it's called the ground floor. But in
the US, it's called the 1st floor. Floors are numbered. Even the
basements are numbered b1, b2, b3 etc. I always get confused here and
say "I'm going to the 2nd floor." when I mean the first floor off the
ground...since most I've met here call the first floor, the ground
floor.
Tarla
****
A word to the wise is infuriating.
--Hunter S. Thompson
Mar 2nd 2004, 12:04 pm
#105
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Air NZ crew heads home alone after LA suicide
in article [email protected], Tarla at
[email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 8:52 PM:
> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:40:40 GMT, Raffi Balmanoukian
> <[email protected] a> wrote:
>
>> in article [email protected], AKM at
>> [email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 3:05 PM:
>>
>>> mtravelkay wrote:
>>>
>>>> 15 years ago, while on a temp assignment in LA while working at IBM in
>>>> Austin. during the development of AIX/PS2 at Locus Software in the
>>>> Herbel Life building, I was staying at the Marriott LAX. One night a
>>>> bunch of us were coming back from dinner. In front of the hotel was a
>>>> body draped in a sheet. Apparently, someone jumped from the 14th floor,
>>>> presumably because there was no 13th floor.
>>>
>>> If you correct for the American way of counting floors, would it be only
>>> the 12th?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Aaah, I get you now. Yes, the 12th in the civilized world.
>
> You're both mistaken. Here in NZ it's called the ground floor. But in
> the US, it's called the 1st floor. Floors are numbered. Even the
> basements are numbered b1, b2, b3 etc. I always get confused here and
> say "I'm going to the 2nd floor." when I mean the first floor off the
> ground...since most I've met here call the first floor, the ground
> floor.
> Tarla
> ****
> A word to the wise is infuriating.
>
> --Hunter S. Thompson
Nup....in non-N.A. counting, the "regular" 13th floor would be the 12th
(ground + 12 stories). So the 14th would be the 13th in non-NA
counting....and since 13 is a no-no, 13 becomes 12.
[email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 8:52 PM:
> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:40:40 GMT, Raffi Balmanoukian
> <[email protected] a> wrote:
>
>> in article [email protected], AKM at
>> [email protected] wrote on 3/2/04 3:05 PM:
>>
>>> mtravelkay wrote:
>>>
>>>> 15 years ago, while on a temp assignment in LA while working at IBM in
>>>> Austin. during the development of AIX/PS2 at Locus Software in the
>>>> Herbel Life building, I was staying at the Marriott LAX. One night a
>>>> bunch of us were coming back from dinner. In front of the hotel was a
>>>> body draped in a sheet. Apparently, someone jumped from the 14th floor,
>>>> presumably because there was no 13th floor.
>>>
>>> If you correct for the American way of counting floors, would it be only
>>> the 12th?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Aaah, I get you now. Yes, the 12th in the civilized world.
>
> You're both mistaken. Here in NZ it's called the ground floor. But in
> the US, it's called the 1st floor. Floors are numbered. Even the
> basements are numbered b1, b2, b3 etc. I always get confused here and
> say "I'm going to the 2nd floor." when I mean the first floor off the
> ground...since most I've met here call the first floor, the ground
> floor.
> Tarla
> ****
> A word to the wise is infuriating.
>
> --Hunter S. Thompson
Nup....in non-N.A. counting, the "regular" 13th floor would be the 12th
(ground + 12 stories). So the 14th would be the 13th in non-NA
counting....and since 13 is a no-no, 13 becomes 12.
