tpkruger

Please be aware that rape and violent murder is very commonplace in
South Africa.

It saddens my heart but I cannot let people walk into a media
propaganda war that is waged in the tourism sector denying the truth,
and live with my consious.

Please please please take care.

http://www.crimexposouthafrica.org/?q=node/1781

DO NOT go ANYWHERE alone. (In your hotelrooms, in the street,
downstairs, never go alone)
Travel in groups.
Have men with you you can trust (although that is not a safety measure
at all)
Make sure you stay in places that has 'reliable' security, and dont
make yourself obvious as a tourist.
Dont wear jewelerry, at all.
Do not show your cellphone in the street, not even when answering it.

I am just writing this as I have had distressing news about 11 woman
and 11 girls raped in one weekend in one area.

This is screaming human rights violations and therefore I do not want
visitors to suffer the same fate. You can still choose, the people that
have to live like this can't.

If you visit, please hire armed security to look after you, it is the
only viable option left.

And to the people that is going to jump on this post and shoot it down
as drivel, you talk to a victim of rape, and you look them in the eyes
and tell them there is no problem with rape in South Africa.

Tourists be aware, please

Regards.

Tjaart

Maart

    > And to the people that is going to jump on this post and shoot it down
    > as drivel, you talk to a victim of rape, and you look them in the eyes
    > and tell them there is no problem with rape in South Africa.

It is a big problem, especially in the townships and in the lesser
neighbourhoods. So don't go there (as you shouldn't do in the US or any
other big cities). Otherwise almost 7 million visitors come to SA every
year, and expectations are that this number will grow.

Thanks for the warnings, and for the rest: enjoy your stay in SA

Maart K.

Marc Lurie

On 23 Aug 2006 04:41:43 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

    >Please be aware that rape and violent murder is very commonplace in
    >South Africa.
Yes, rape is more commonplace here than any country in western
Europe. For an interesting report on rape, see:
http://www.amnesty.org.nz/web/pages/home.nsf/d305365f5c72ed17cc256e46000d1c6b/904d77a1992257f6cc256e47000c7b01!OpenDocument

    >It saddens my heart but I cannot let people walk into a media
    >propaganda war that is waged in the tourism sector denying the truth,
    >and live with my consious.
There's no media propaganda war, and nobody is denying the truth.

    >Please please please take care.
I agree. Use your "big-city-smarts" in Johannesburg, and you'll be OK.
    >http://www.crimexposouthafrica.org/?q=node/1781
A sensationalist, hysterical, and racist viewpoint, riddled with
hyperbole, misinformation, and a transparent agenda.
    >DO NOT go ANYWHERE alone. (In your hotelrooms, in the street,
    >downstairs, never go alone)
What ABSOLUTE rubbish. I have NEVER felt that I always have to be with
someone else in South Africa. I stay out of obviously dodgy areas,
just as I do in Los Angeles, New York, Taipei, or Kampala.

    >Travel in groups.
    >Have men with you you can trust (although that is not a safety measure
    >at all)
Ooh, let's use the"helpless-female-about-to-be-pounced-on-by-savages"
school of fear-mongering.

    >Make sure you stay in places that has 'reliable' security, and dont
    >make yourself obvious as a tourist.
Agreed. I wouldn't suggest oherwise... Anywhere... Anytime.

    >Dont wear jewelerry, at all.
Hmmm... debateable point. I've never had any jewelry stolen in South
Africa, but I was pick-pocketed in London.

    >Do not show your cellphone in the street, not even when answering it.
Yes, it is possible that a cellphone might be snatched. It's never
happened to me (or anyone I know for that matter) but it is possible.
It is also possible to be pickpocketed or bag-snatched in London or
Rio, or Nairobi. Cell phone reception in my office is very poor and
the three employees here stand outside on the street while we use our
phones. In 7 years not one of us has had a phone snatched while
talking outside.
    >I am just writing this as I have had distressing news about 11 woman
    >and 11 girls raped in one weekend in one area.
While I don't dispute the news story per se, the story as posted in
crimeexposouthafrica, and in your OP, is a bit ambiguous for 2 main
reasons:
1) The report could be read to be 22 poeple in total, or 11 in total,
depending on how sensationalist the reader wants to be.
2) The attacks didn't happen in the same area. Mpumalanga province
covers 80,000 square kilometers, or two and a half times the size of
Belgium.
    >This is screaming human rights violations and therefore I do not want
    >visitors to suffer the same fate. You can still choose, the people that
    >have to live like this can't.
Visitors to Mpumalanga are unlikely to ever be near the actual place
names mentioned in crimexposouthafrica (Siyabusa and Witbank). I've
lived in South Africa for 41 years and have only vere been in Witbank
three times. I've never heard of Siyabusa. Mostly, visitors go to
Mpumalanga to visit the Kruger National Park. The probablity of being
raped in the park is so small as to be next to nil.

    >If you visit, please hire armed security to look after you, it is the
    >only viable option left.
Once again, ABSOLUTE rubbish.
    >And to the people that is going to jump on this post and shoot it down
    >as drivel, you talk to a victim of rape, and you look them in the eyes
    >and tell them there is no problem with rape in South Africa.
No need to do that. Rape is a filthy, despicable act. It is
unacceptable in any situation, and it is a huge problem in South
Africa where the reality of the situation is that womens rights are
virtually non-existant in some sectrs of society. The same problem
exists (to varying degrees of severity) all over Africa, South
America, and many other countries where poor education is routinely
encountered.

    >Tourists be aware, please
Yes, please beware. But also enjoy yourself in South Africa.

FYI, please have a look at: http://www.sagoodnews.co.za for a more
positive slant on the country. Yes, I know they're LOOKING for the
good news, but it is a counterpoint to those sites that are only
LOOKING for the bad news.






I AM MAKING A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT ON THIS FORUM!!!

If any person who uses this newsgroup is planning a trip to South
Africa, and they have any queries or concerns, please address these to
me and I will do my level best to respond to them in a level-headed
and responsible manner.

I am always very happy to "meet-and-greet" visitors at the airport if
it's convenient for me. I'll happily (and safely) show you around
Johannesburg if it's possible. If you tell me beforehand what your
interests are, I can make recommendations about places to visit,
things to see etc.

I am not involved in the tourism or hospitallity industry in any way,
I am simply a proud South African, a keen traveller, and someone who
loves to be an ambasador for my country because I know that every
visitor who has a good time here will become an ambasador for South
Africa when they go home.

I don't ask for, or expect, any payment for assisting visitors. At
least I try to do something positive about this beautiful country and
make positive constructive changes, rather than publishing hysterical
and destructive matter on the WWW.

Regards,

Marc - Johannesburg

Marc Lurie

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 16:02:52 +0200, "Maart" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >It is a big problem, especially in the townships and in the lesser
    >neighbourhoods. So don't go there (as you shouldn't do in the US or any
    >other big cities). Otherwise almost 7 million visitors come to SA every
    >year, and expectations are that this number will grow.
    >Thanks for the warnings, and for the rest: enjoy your stay in SA
    >Maart K.

Maart,

Thanks for a concise and level-headed response to the OP. The problem,
as marketers well know, is that one bad report destroys the work of
many good reports.

Marc

Tjaart

Hello Marc,

Thanks for replying to the post, I apreciate you showing the positive
side of SA as well.

For example, I did not even know of the 'good news website'! Thanks for
posting that.

    > >http://www.crimexposouthafrica.org/?q=node/1781
    > A sensationalist, hysterical, and racist viewpoint, riddled with
    > hyperbole, misinformation, and a transparent agenda.

On the side of the crime-expo site, I have to take a stand. I have had
my house broken in, my car vandalized, my bakkie stolen, attacked in
the street, and this was during my 3 year stay in Cape Town, next to
the waterfront, in Mouille Point.

That area IS tourist areas, and I have personally in the middle of the
night stormed out of my flat, running almost naked down the street to
where a group of tourist was being threatened. And believe it or not,
on the way back to my flat after that, came face to face with strangers
in the stairwell, that skedadled when they heard me going back to my
flat and coming up my stairs. In a house in Pinelands, (again, not far
from the exclusive Century City complex) I have had my whole house
cleaned out, while me and my 2 sisters and our friends were sleeping.
We were all roundabout 20 years old at the time. We were kids man, we
would not have stood a chance.

To this day I thank my lucky stars they did not kill us, or one of us
woke up. We could see the dirty handmarks as they felt their way up the
stairs to our rooms. At one stage you could see the grope marks as they
felt for the lights, but they felt too short, as thank God the
lightswitch was far enough into the room. I replay this often in my
head, and I wondered if I would be alive today if that one lightswitch
was nearer the door.

It is not racist (I can agree that racists will latch onto it like a
AWB supporter latches onto a Klippies and Cola), it is just that sadly,
(and you know it) white people have a majority in the stakes of who can
be online and who can't. So of course there will be a skew in people
who report their stories there. Read the people's stories that they
have to say, read the testimonies of people there. See past the rage
and knee-jerk writing (as people who write this has sometimes just days
or weeks earlier escaped death, or met it face to face)

    > >DO NOT go ANYWHERE alone. (In your hotelrooms, in the street,
    > >downstairs, never go alone)
    > What ABSOLUTE rubbish. I have NEVER felt that I always have to be with
    > someone else in South Africa. I stay out of obviously dodgy areas,
    > just as I do in Los Angeles, New York, Taipei, or Kampala.

Dude, in my house, in my room, with a locked housedoor, in a cull de
sac with sensor lights, with a *****off big dog next door. And they
stood in the same house. They can get in anywhere, even the 'celebs'
are not immune, look at the buggers that robbed Schuster.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...987003,00.html

    > >Travel in groups.
    > >Have men with you you can trust (although that is not a safety measure
    > >at all)
    > Ooh, let's use the"helpless-female-about-to-be-pounced-on-by-savages"
    > school of fear-mongering.

So you advocate women going out alone at night and walking alone?
Listen here, I am 6 foot and weigh almost a 100kgs and I do not go out
alone at night where I know that I could rahter be with people. That
kak is looking for trouble. And it is not scaremongering. It is a fact,
it is advocated by the gov, police, action groups the lot.

Like I said, travel in groups, take some guys with you. This may not be
a safety measure at all. I have done self defense for woman, and I can
say, if I want to disable or assualt a woman, I can. Men half my size
do it. If there was no truth in the fact, then why do so many women get
raped?

And it is not a egotistical 'men are better bla bla bla kak, it is just
the truth of the matter. Girls, swallow your pride, ask the guys to
escort you. It may seem like a stereotipical thing to do, but you will
wish otherwise when someone grabs you and pushes you into the bushes
and you are alone. Men are stronger on average than women, on a one on
one with a big guy you WILL lose. Especially if he takes you unnaware
and suddenly. It usually takes woman a couple of seconds to get their
mace/stun weapon out if they are not allready carrying it in their
hand. 3 seconds is enough for a attacker.

    > >Dont wear jewelerry, at all.
    > Hmmm... debateable point. I've never had any jewelry stolen in South
    > Africa, but I was pick-pocketed in London.

Watch ripped off in Groentemark plein by the guys selling 'Chemicals my
Lanie' on the corner around the block from the Purple Turtle.

    > >Do not show your cellphone in the street, not even when answering it.
    > Yes, it is possible that a cellphone might be snatched. It's never
    > happened to me (or anyone I know for that matter) but it is possible.
    > It is also possible to be pickpocketed or bag-snatched in London or
    > Rio, or Nairobi. Cell phone reception in my office is very poor and
    > the three employees here stand outside on the street while we use our
    > phones. In 7 years not one of us has had a phone snatched while
    > talking outside.

Can't argue with that, it's a personal call (just saw my own pun there)


    > >I am just writing this as I have had distressing news about 11 woman
    > >and 11 girls raped in one weekend in one area.

    > While I don't dispute the news story per se, the story as posted in
    > crimeexposouthafrica, and in your OP, is a bit ambiguous for 2 main
    > reasons:
    > 1) The report could be read to be 22 poeple in total, or 11 in total,
    > depending on how sensationalist the reader wants to be.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...986558,00.html

11 woman and 11 girls.

    > 2) The attacks didn't happen in the same area. Mpumalanga province
    > covers 80,000 square kilometers, or two and a half times the size of
    > Belgium.

Factor in the population density of that, and the figures still make
for disturbing news.

    > >This is screaming human rights violations and therefore I do not want
    > >visitors to suffer the same fate. You can still choose, the people that
    > >have to live like this can't.
    > Visitors to Mpumalanga are unlikely to ever be near the actual place
    > names mentioned in crimexposouthafrica (Siyabusa and Witbank). I've
    > lived in South Africa for 41 years and have only vere been in Witbank
    > three times. I've never heard of Siyabusa. Mostly, visitors go to
    > Mpumalanga to visit the Kruger National Park. The probablity of being
    > raped in the park is so small as to be next to nil.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...286566,00.html

Mind you, this story is old, but the level of crime had not dropped,
seeing that the 22 people were still raped last weekend.

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...1557885C245756

Broke into the camp. That sounds near enouhg to be concerned.

Kwamhlanga - googled

found 1 lodge and 1 Safaripark. I give it to you that I have never seen
the area, but tourists go there.

I found no evidence of Siyabusa as a tourist area. But the fact of the
matter is, avoid it anyway.

    > >If you visit, please hire armed security to look after you, it is the
    > >only viable option left.
    > Once again, ABSOLUTE rubbish.

Say this to these people.

...darn, I cannot find the link, but a girl and her boyfriend was shot,
she in the stomach and he in the thigh, in their holiday home in Durbs.
All they took was a laptop, IICRC.

I am sure you are a confident person, and believe that nothing will
happen, but really, I'd rather them be safe than sorry. Let them just
get the best they can have, and let them be safe! I know in the big
picture, I can be robbed and stabbed, or fall over in my bath tomorrow,
but I know, the numbers and figures make me scared to be in SA. I have
not yet found anyone who does not know of something or someone that has
not been influenced by crime. Six degrees of seperation and all that,
and it seems that we are saturated in crime. All I say is, get
carefull, get safe, get the best option possible.

    > >And to the people that is going to jump on this post and shoot it down
    > >as drivel, you talk to a victim of rape, and you look them in the eyes
    > >and tell them there is no problem with rape in South Africa.
    > No need to do that. Rape is a filthy, despicable act. It is
    > unacceptable in any situation, and it is a huge problem in South
    > Africa where the reality of the situation is that womens rights are
    > virtually non-existant in some sectrs of society. The same problem
    > exists (to varying degrees of severity) all over Africa, South
    > America, and many other countries where poor education is routinely
    > encountered.
    > >Tourists be aware, please
    > Yes, please beware. But also enjoy yourself in South Africa.

Agree. We have the most kick ass country in the world. Period. The
nature you will match no-where. And the people the best in the world.
Unfortunately we sit with 'things' (I cannot even call them animals, as
animals does not perpetrate some of the horrors these 'things' inflict)
We need a governtment that heeds to the call and cries of it's people.

    > FYI, please have a look at: http://www.sagoodnews.co.za for a more
    > positive slant on the country. Yes, I know they're LOOKING for the
    > good news, but it is a counterpoint to those sites that are only
    > LOOKING for the bad news.

Thanks for the site, I will visit it now. CrimeExpo is not looking for
bad news. People just bring bad news there, because our own government
are 'lalalalalala-ing' in the corner and sleep safely with private
security. What about the people that live in shacks so wonky that they
cannot even keep the wind out. Where is the protection there?

    > I AM MAKING A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT ON THIS FORUM!!!
    > If any person who uses this newsgroup is planning a trip to South
    > Africa, and they have any queries or concerns, please address these to
    > me and I will do my level best to respond to them in a level-headed
    > and responsible manner.
    > I am always very happy to "meet-and-greet" visitors at the airport if
    > it's convenient for me. I'll happily (and safely) show you around
    > Johannesburg if it's possible. If you tell me beforehand what your
    > interests are, I can make recommendations about places to visit,
    > things to see etc.
    > I am not involved in the tourism or hospitallity industry in any way,
    > I am simply a proud South African, a keen traveller, and someone who
    > loves to be an ambasador for my country because I know that every
    > visitor who has a good time here will become an ambasador for South
    > Africa when they go home.

I tip my hat to you. That is a very noble and selfless thing to do. I
really hope you succeed in this endevour, and I wish you all the best.

    > I don't ask for, or expect, any payment for assisting visitors. At
    > least I try to do something positive about this beautiful country and
    > make positive constructive changes, rather than publishing hysterical
    > and destructive matter on the WWW.

Destuctive? I agree. Hysterical? Well, I was once in Cape Town central
train station, and when I heard the bullets fly, I was a bit (I lie, I
was kackin myself) hysterical. What amazes me was that 5 mins later, it
was bussines as usual. The guy who was shot was covered, and people
went on their way, and I stood there actually watching the blood pool
in facination. This was in 1999 in Cape Town.

I ask you. What else can we do. If we winge, we get asked to leave the
counrty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwXSIDp3RSM

If you think that any of these things I have said here is hysterical,
please point them out. I will then think about it in a more positive
way.

I love my country, I absolutely HATE the fact that we are being
slaughtered, and live in reversed jails, so bad so that I am afraid to
take people up Seinheuwel to look at Cape Towns pretty lights. WE arer
the citizens of this country, WE are getting spread around the world,
leaving and leaving our dead mothers and fathers and children behind
because of the murderers and rapists. It is a sad sad sad fact. My
heart bleeds when I hear of babies murdered and raped, people tortured.
It is crazy that we have to live in the killing zones. And we expect
tourists to just come in, and not warn them? That is irresponsible! But
I truly admire your courage in instigating this 'friendly face at the
airport' initiative. It is something to be proud off.

Regards and best wishes Marc,

Tjaart

Grant Kinsley

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 16:13:08 +0200, Marc Lurie
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On 23 Aug 2006 04:41:43 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
    >>Please be aware that rape and violent murder is very commonplace in
    >>South Africa.
    >Yes, rape is more commonplace here than any country in western
    >Europe. For an interesting report on rape, see:
    >http://www.amnesty.org.nz/web/pages/home.nsf/d305365f5c72ed17cc256e46000d1c6b/904d77a1992257f6cc256e47000c7b01!OpenDocument
    >>It saddens my heart but I cannot let people walk into a media
    >>propaganda war that is waged in the tourism sector denying the truth,
    >>and live with my consious.
    >There's no media propaganda war, and nobody is denying the truth.
    >>Please please please take care.
    >I agree. Use your "big-city-smarts" in Johannesburg, and you'll be OK.
    >>http://www.crimexposouthafrica.org/?q=node/1781
    >A sensationalist, hysterical, and racist viewpoint, riddled with
    >hyperbole, misinformation, and a transparent agenda.
    >>DO NOT go ANYWHERE alone. (In your hotelrooms, in the street,
    >>downstairs, never go alone)
    >What ABSOLUTE rubbish. I have NEVER felt that I always have to be with
    >someone else in South Africa. I stay out of obviously dodgy areas,
    >just as I do in Los Angeles, New York, Taipei, or Kampala.
    >>Travel in groups.
    >>Have men with you you can trust (although that is not a safety measure
    >>at all)
    >Ooh, let's use the"helpless-female-about-to-be-pounced-on-by-savages"
    >school of fear-mongering.
    >>Make sure you stay in places that has 'reliable' security, and dont
    >>make yourself obvious as a tourist.
    >Agreed. I wouldn't suggest oherwise... Anywhere... Anytime.
    >>Dont wear jewelerry, at all.
    >Hmmm... debateable point. I've never had any jewelry stolen in South
    >Africa, but I was pick-pocketed in London.
    >>Do not show your cellphone in the street, not even when answering it.
    >Yes, it is possible that a cellphone might be snatched. It's never
    >happened to me (or anyone I know for that matter) but it is possible.
    >It is also possible to be pickpocketed or bag-snatched in London or
    >Rio, or Nairobi. Cell phone reception in my office is very poor and
    >the three employees here stand outside on the street while we use our
    >phones. In 7 years not one of us has had a phone snatched while
    >talking outside.
    >>I am just writing this as I have had distressing news about 11 woman
    >>and 11 girls raped in one weekend in one area.
    >While I don't dispute the news story per se, the story as posted in
    >crimeexposouthafrica, and in your OP, is a bit ambiguous for 2 main
    >reasons:
    >1) The report could be read to be 22 poeple in total, or 11 in total,
    >depending on how sensationalist the reader wants to be.
    >2) The attacks didn't happen in the same area. Mpumalanga province
    >covers 80,000 square kilometers, or two and a half times the size of
    >Belgium.
    >>This is screaming human rights violations and therefore I do not want
    >>visitors to suffer the same fate. You can still choose, the people that
    >>have to live like this can't.
    >Visitors to Mpumalanga are unlikely to ever be near the actual place
    >names mentioned in crimexposouthafrica (Siyabusa and Witbank). I've
    >lived in South Africa for 41 years and have only vere been in Witbank
    >three times. I've never heard of Siyabusa. Mostly, visitors go to
    >Mpumalanga to visit the Kruger National Park. The probablity of being
    >raped in the park is so small as to be next to nil.
    >>If you visit, please hire armed security to look after you, it is the
    >>only viable option left.
    >Once again, ABSOLUTE rubbish.
    >>And to the people that is going to jump on this post and shoot it down
    >>as drivel, you talk to a victim of rape, and you look them in the eyes
    >>and tell them there is no problem with rape in South Africa.
    >No need to do that. Rape is a filthy, despicable act. It is
    >unacceptable in any situation, and it is a huge problem in South
    >Africa where the reality of the situation is that womens rights are
    >virtually non-existant in some sectrs of society. The same problem
    >exists (to varying degrees of severity) all over Africa, South
    >America, and many other countries where poor education is routinely
    >encountered.
    >>Tourists be aware, please
    >Yes, please beware. But also enjoy yourself in South Africa.
    >FYI, please have a look at: http://www.sagoodnews.co.za for a more
    >positive slant on the country. Yes, I know they're LOOKING for the
    >good news, but it is a counterpoint to those sites that are only
    >LOOKING for the bad news.
    >I AM MAKING A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT ON THIS FORUM!!!
    >If any person who uses this newsgroup is planning a trip to South
    >Africa, and they have any queries or concerns, please address these to
    >me and I will do my level best to respond to them in a level-headed
    >and responsible manner.
    >I am always very happy to "meet-and-greet" visitors at the airport if
    >it's convenient for me. I'll happily (and safely) show you around
    >Johannesburg if it's possible. If you tell me beforehand what your
    >interests are, I can make recommendations about places to visit,
    >things to see etc.
    >I am not involved in the tourism or hospitallity industry in any way,
    >I am simply a proud South African, a keen traveller, and someone who
    >loves to be an ambasador for my country because I know that every
    >visitor who has a good time here will become an ambasador for South
    >Africa when they go home.
    >I don't ask for, or expect, any payment for assisting visitors. At
    >least I try to do something positive about this beautiful country and
    >make positive constructive changes, rather than publishing hysterical
    >and destructive matter on the WWW.
    >Regards,
    >Marc - Johannesburg

Marc, thanks for the realistic analysis

I've worked with several doctors from SA, and all of them, even tho'
they've left SA, still think fondly of home and heartily recommend it
as a great place to vacation.

Hopefully coming to SA next year to see SA and Botswana, maybe I'll be
able to catch up with you

G Kinsley

Marc Lurie

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:01:58 GMT, grant kinsley
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Marc, thanks for the realistic analysis
    >I've worked with several doctors from SA, and all of them, even tho'
    >they've left SA, still think fondly of home and heartily recommend it
    >as a great place to vacation.
    >Hopefully coming to SA next year to see SA and Botswana, maybe I'll be
    >able to catch up with you
    >G Kinsley

Hi Grant,

Please do contact me when your plans firm up a bit, and you have an
idea about when you might be visiting. It'd be my pleasure to meet up
with you in Jo'burg

Regards,
Marc

Grant Kinsley

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:39:22 +0200, Marc Lurie
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:01:58 GMT, grant kinsley
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Marc, thanks for the realistic analysis
    >>I've worked with several doctors from SA, and all of them, even tho'
    >>they've left SA, still think fondly of home and heartily recommend it
    >>as a great place to vacation.
    >>Hopefully coming to SA next year to see SA and Botswana, maybe I'll be
    >>able to catch up with you
    >>G Kinsley
    >Hi Grant,
    >Please do contact me when your plans firm up a bit, and you have an
    >idea about when you might be visiting. It'd be my pleasure to meet up
    >with you in Jo'burg

Thanks, probably October of '08, was supposed to be '07, but my folks
want to go to Ireland and I promised them I'd take them. So probably
have to do that in '07.

I understand Oct. is best for game watching, would you agree or is
another time of year better?
    >Regards,
    >Marc

Bush Pilot

Hi Guys

I have just found this forum. Well done Marc for sticking up for SA. I
have walked the streets and lived in Johannesburg for 40 years. I have
never been mugged and no family member has every been shot, stabbed or
raped. But I dont deny that violent crime exists - it does

Grant - With regard to game viewing. October & November is hot and dry
in the Parks. Water is limited for the wildlife so they are forced to
concentrate on the rivers and waterholes. The vegetation is depleted to
its easy to see into the bush, which makes game viewing a lot easier.
Once the rains come (December) the animals can move away and take
advantage of better grazing deeper into the bush. The bush becomes
thick and green making game viewing harder. But dont discount the
summer period - its cooler, more scenic and young impala are
everywhere. Botswana's peak season is July to end October. Be prepared
for horrific prices. November is a lot cheaper

Enjoy SA - its a lovely country

Allan


grant kinsley wrote:
    > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:39:22 +0200, Marc Lurie
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:01:58 GMT, grant kinsley
    > ><[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Marc, thanks for the realistic analysis
    > >>
    > >>I've worked with several doctors from SA, and all of them, even tho'
    > >>they've left SA, still think fondly of home and heartily recommend it
    > >>as a great place to vacation.
    > >>
    > >>Hopefully coming to SA next year to see SA and Botswana, maybe I'll be
    > >>able to catch up with you
    > >>
    > >>G Kinsley
    > >
    > >Hi Grant,
    > >
    > >Please do contact me when your plans firm up a bit, and you have an
    > >idea about when you might be visiting. It'd be my pleasure to meet up
    > >with you in Jo'burg
    > Thanks, probably October of '08, was supposed to be '07, but my folks
    > want to go to Ireland and I promised them I'd take them. So probably
    > have to do that in '07.
    > I understand Oct. is best for game watching, would you agree or is
    > another time of year better?
    > >
    > >Regards,
    > >Marc

JohnM

In article <[email protected]. com>, bush
pilot <[email protected]> writes
    >Hi Guys
    >I have just found this forum. Well done Marc for sticking up for SA. I
    >have walked the streets and lived in Johannesburg for 40 years. I have
    >never been mugged and no family member has every been shot, stabbed or
    >raped. But I dont deny that violent crime exists - it does

I was in Jo'burg this March/April for 10 days and nothing happened to
me. I was out clubbing until 5:00am like many people in Jo'burg,
(calling Maxi Taxis to take me home) went to several restaurants till
late and to the theatre twice. Crime most certainly exists but it does
not mean that it will touch you personally. The golden rule for a
tourist is to be streetwise and take taxis at night from A to B. That's
all.

--
JohnM
Author of Brazil: Life, Blood, Soul &
Rainbow Diary: A Journey in the New South Africa
http://www.scroll.demon.co.uk/spaver.htm

Grant Kinsley

On 25 Aug 2006 01:24:37 -0700, "bush pilot"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hi Guys
    >I have just found this forum. Well done Marc for sticking up for SA. I
    >have walked the streets and lived in Johannesburg for 40 years. I have
    >never been mugged and no family member has every been shot, stabbed or
    >raped. But I dont deny that violent crime exists - it does

As with any city, alot has to do with where you go, and when you go.
There are certainly parts of many "safe" cities that I wouldn't
recommend to anyone to walk alone in, and there are parts of "bad"
cities that are fine.

Filing all of Jo'burg as unsafe would be like saying all of LA or
Washington D.C. is unsafe, which of course are patently false.
    >Grant - With regard to game viewing. October & November is hot and dry
    >in the Parks. Water is limited for the wildlife so they are forced to
    >concentrate on the rivers and waterholes. The vegetation is depleted to
    >its easy to see into the bush, which makes game viewing a lot easier.
    >Once the rains come (December) the animals can move away and take
    >advantage of better grazing deeper into the bush. The bush becomes
    >thick and green making game viewing harder. But dont discount the
    >summer period - its cooler, more scenic and young impala are
    >everywhere. Botswana's peak season is July to end October. Be prepared
    >for horrific prices. November is a lot cheaper

Yup I know about the prices, but I figured we'll do it one time in
style for the game, and potential future trips to see all the other
wonderful stuff in the less pricey season. But maybe November will be
a good compromise for the first trip (besides, here in Nova Scotia
November is getting kinda cold)
    >Enjoy SA - its a lovely country

I'm sure I will and thanks for the advice

Grant
    >Allan
    >grant kinsley wrote:
    >> On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:39:22 +0200, Marc Lurie
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:01:58 GMT, grant kinsley
    >> ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >>Marc, thanks for the realistic analysis
    >> >>
    >> >>I've worked with several doctors from SA, and all of them, even tho'
    >> >>they've left SA, still think fondly of home and heartily recommend it
    >> >>as a great place to vacation.
    >> >>
    >> >>Hopefully coming to SA next year to see SA and Botswana, maybe I'll be
    >> >>able to catch up with you
    >> >>
    >> >>G Kinsley
    >> >
    >> >Hi Grant,
    >> >
    >> >Please do contact me when your plans firm up a bit, and you have an
    >> >idea about when you might be visiting. It'd be my pleasure to meet up
    >> >with you in Jo'burg
    >> Thanks, probably October of '08, was supposed to be '07, but my folks
    >> want to go to Ireland and I promised them I'd take them. So probably
    >> have to do that in '07.
    >> I understand Oct. is best for game watching, would you agree or is
    >> another time of year better?
    >> >
    >> >Regards,
    >> >Marc

Marc Lurie

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:30:08 GMT, grant kinsley
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >I understand Oct. is best for game watching, would you agree or is
    >another time of year better?
    >>Regards,
    >>Marc

Yup. Anytime from around July to mid November is the preiod to go game
viewing at Kruger due to shorter grass, water shortages, and cooler
temperatures. July can be very cold at nights, but pleasantly mild
during the day. November starts getting hot, and December to Feb are
HOT!!! Too hot for good viewing, the grass grows like crazy, and there
is plenty of water, so game is scattered.

Aug Sep Oct are the best months for Kruger.

Unfortunately, the best game viewing months are the worst months for
visiting both Johannesburg and Cape Town. Johannesburg is bitterly
cold and dry and drab, Cape Town is depressingly wet and cold and
miserable.

Johannesburg starts to become lovely in October after the first rains,
and by end November it is stunning. It is the largest man-made forest
on earth and from the air it looks like a green carpet dotted with
swimming pools and golf courses. Cape Town is hot and vibrant in
November/December. Durban (one of my favourite cities worldwide) is a
place to avoid from November to February, but a good place to visit
any other time.

Regards,
Marc

Marc Lurie

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:08:44 +0100, JohnM
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >I was in Jo'burg this March/April for 10 days and nothing happened to
    >me. I was out clubbing until 5:00am like many people in Jo'burg,
    >(calling Maxi Taxis to take me home) went to several restaurants till
    >late and to the theatre twice. Crime most certainly exists but it does
    >not mean that it will touch you personally. The golden rule for a
    >tourist is to be streetwise and take taxis at night from A to B. That's
    >all.

Darn, if I'd known you were coming, I could have arranged at least one
little mugging, or some gunshots, or a hijacking... just something to
say "HI" :-)

Seriously, John I'm so glad that you enjoyed yourself here. You did
the correct thing by using Maxi Taxi (or any other LEGAL taxi company
for that matter) and you didn't do anything foolish that put you in
danger.

Doing something foolish will just as soon get you into trouble in
South Central Los Angeles as it will in Johannesburg or Barcelona, or
almost anywhere else for that matter.

Marc