Info requested about South African Airways
Feb 10th 2003, 10:36 pm
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Info requested about South African Airways
Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
Feb 10th 2003, 10:46 pm
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
"Marcelo Bruno" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
> How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
> Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
You need to read about a chap called Coleman Andrews for a good answer to
that one - do a search.
--
I wish that baby Jesus had never been born - Samaritans
news:[email protected]...
> Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
> How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
> Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
You need to read about a chap called Coleman Andrews for a good answer to
that one - do a search.
--
I wish that baby Jesus had never been born - Samaritans
Feb 11th 2003, 6:06 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
I am a SAA Voyager member. I have flown with SAA almost exclusively for the
past five years and, although I have some issues with them, they appear to
be reasonably well run and safety conscious.
As far as I know, there have been only two fatal incidnts involving SAA
planes. One was in the 70's and the other was the Helderberg in the 80's.
There may be others of which I'm not aware, but the safety record is
impressive bearing in mind the airports that some of these planes have to
land in such as Luanda, Ndola, Lagos, Entebbe etc., and the paucity of
reliable VHF radio systems in many African airspace regions.
In terms of service I an make the following observations:
1) In economy class the service is polite but impersonal. The food is
generally pedestrian but edible. All domestic flights are under two hours
long, so there is little time for niceties.Longer flights are better because
the flight attendants have the time to socialise a bit. The really long
flights are not great, but I doubt that any economy class seat on any
airline will make JNB to JFK feel pleasant. I do hope that the introduction
of the new Airbus will change this somewhat.
2) Business class for domestic flights is comfortable, the staff are polite
and helpfull. The business class lounges at JNB and CPT are excellent. There
is no First Class for domestic routes.
3) Business class on international flights is good to excellent. The staff
are attentive, meals are above average.
4) First class is something that I cannot comment on... :-)
I have no worries about flying SAA, but I don't doubt there are better
airlines. I joined their Voyager program in order tro take advantage of free
flights, upgrades etc.
Regards,
Marc - Johannesburg, South Africa
"Marcelo Bruno" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
> How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
> Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
past five years and, although I have some issues with them, they appear to
be reasonably well run and safety conscious.
As far as I know, there have been only two fatal incidnts involving SAA
planes. One was in the 70's and the other was the Helderberg in the 80's.
There may be others of which I'm not aware, but the safety record is
impressive bearing in mind the airports that some of these planes have to
land in such as Luanda, Ndola, Lagos, Entebbe etc., and the paucity of
reliable VHF radio systems in many African airspace regions.
In terms of service I an make the following observations:
1) In economy class the service is polite but impersonal. The food is
generally pedestrian but edible. All domestic flights are under two hours
long, so there is little time for niceties.Longer flights are better because
the flight attendants have the time to socialise a bit. The really long
flights are not great, but I doubt that any economy class seat on any
airline will make JNB to JFK feel pleasant. I do hope that the introduction
of the new Airbus will change this somewhat.
2) Business class for domestic flights is comfortable, the staff are polite
and helpfull. The business class lounges at JNB and CPT are excellent. There
is no First Class for domestic routes.
3) Business class on international flights is good to excellent. The staff
are attentive, meals are above average.
4) First class is something that I cannot comment on... :-)
I have no worries about flying SAA, but I don't doubt there are better
airlines. I joined their Voyager program in order tro take advantage of free
flights, upgrades etc.
Regards,
Marc - Johannesburg, South Africa
"Marcelo Bruno" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
> How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
> Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
Feb 11th 2003, 8:40 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
Coleman Andrews' influence on safety and service in SAA was generally a
positive one.
SAA has an enviable safety record, and can stand its own by most
benchmarks.
Service reached an all-time low under Coleman's predecessor, Zukile Nomvete.
Since then it has improved markedly, but still has some areas where it tends
to fall behind.
"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Marcelo Bruno" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
> > How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
> > Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
> >
> You need to read about a chap called Coleman Andrews for a good answer to
> that one - do a search.
> --
> I wish that baby Jesus had never been born - Samaritans
positive one.
SAA has an enviable safety record, and can stand its own by most
benchmarks.
Service reached an all-time low under Coleman's predecessor, Zukile Nomvete.
Since then it has improved markedly, but still has some areas where it tends
to fall behind.
"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Marcelo Bruno" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
> > How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
> > Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
> >
> You need to read about a chap called Coleman Andrews for a good answer to
> that one - do a search.
> --
> I wish that baby Jesus had never been born - Samaritans
Feb 11th 2003, 3:56 pm
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
I use SAAirways regularly for my tour groups and
am very pleased with their in-flight service. I also
use British Airways from time to time within southern
Africa, and would make the same comment. In these
times, it's difficult to find a truly outstanding airline.
But SA is a good one, in my experience.
I will be on the ATL/CPT flight later this month, in fact.
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am very pleased with their in-flight service. I also
use British Airways from time to time within southern
Africa, and would make the same comment. In these
times, it's difficult to find a truly outstanding airline.
But SA is a good one, in my experience.
I will be on the ATL/CPT flight later this month, in fact.
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Feb 11th 2003, 3:56 pm
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
I use SAAirways regularly for my tour groups and
am very pleased with their in-flight service. I also
use British Airways from time to time within southern
Africa, and would make the same comment. In these
times, it's difficult to find a truly outstanding airline.
But SA is a good one, in my experience.
I will be on their flights later this month, in fact.
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-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
am very pleased with their in-flight service. I also
use British Airways from time to time within southern
Africa, and would make the same comment. In these
times, it's difficult to find a truly outstanding airline.
But SA is a good one, in my experience.
I will be on their flights later this month, in fact.
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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Feb 11th 2003, 6:03 pm
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
Went SAA once and never again.
The planes are in a terrible state. I would even question their
Air-worthness
Marcelo Bruno wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
> How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
> Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
The planes are in a terrible state. I would even question their
Air-worthness
Marcelo Bruno wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
> How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
> Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
Feb 11th 2003, 6:52 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
"Paul" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Went SAA once and never again.
> The planes are in a terrible state. I would even question their
> Air-worthness
As I said. One should read up about one 'Coleman Andrews'.
--
The grandeur of real art, on the contrary, . . . is to rediscover, grasp
again and lay before us that reality from which we become more and more
separated as the formal knowledge which we substitute for it grows in
thickness and imperviousness--that reality which there is grave danger we
might die without ever having known and yet which is simply our life, life
as it really is, life disclosed and made clear . . . .
- Vladimir Nabokov "Marcel Proust (1871-1922)"
> Went SAA once and never again.
> The planes are in a terrible state. I would even question their
> Air-worthness
As I said. One should read up about one 'Coleman Andrews'.
--
The grandeur of real art, on the contrary, . . . is to rediscover, grasp
again and lay before us that reality from which we become more and more
separated as the formal knowledge which we substitute for it grows in
thickness and imperviousness--that reality which there is grave danger we
might die without ever having known and yet which is simply our life, life
as it really is, life disclosed and made clear . . . .
- Vladimir Nabokov "Marcel Proust (1871-1922)"
Feb 11th 2003, 7:03 pm
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
Paul wrote:
>
> Went SAA once and never again.
>
> The planes are in a terrible state. I would even question their
> Air-worthness
I've flown with SAA numerous times on international flights to Europe
and the US and on domestic routes. I've also flown many times on
US-based carriers and once or twice on Air France and British Airways.
Generally I've been quite impressed with SAA's service. From a lay
person's perspective their planes did not seem in a "terrible state" or
unairworthy (certainly compared to those used in the US). Perhaps their
service records indicate otherwise and maybe someone can dig these up.
Only four SAA planes have crashed with irreparable damage during the
last 40 or so years. The last were the Helderberg 747 in 1986 and a 707
in the late 1960's near Windhoek.
Their onboard economy class service is quite average and perhaps a bit
more friendly than that offered on US carriers. I got the impression
that they do their best to keep everyone comfortable on the long flights
from the US to SA - these are trying under the best of circumstances.
I've only had one bad experience with SAA - getting bumped from
Johannesburg to Atlanta just after New Year. They must have been
overbooked by at least 10%. The person at the check in tried to tell us
that it was a computer glitch but we kicked up enough of a fuss to be
transferred to their customer service desk. It took a little negotiating
to get things straightened out and I had to use my knowledge of their
route network to get alternative flights. In the end they sent us via
Europe, which only added 6hrs, and gave us free tickets at the
international level, valid for a year. They honored these without any
quibbling or complaining. The worst part about this was that the tickets
were actually purchased with Delta airlines, whose representative in
Johannesburg, would have nothing to do with this.
David Collins
>
> Went SAA once and never again.
>
> The planes are in a terrible state. I would even question their
> Air-worthness
I've flown with SAA numerous times on international flights to Europe
and the US and on domestic routes. I've also flown many times on
US-based carriers and once or twice on Air France and British Airways.
Generally I've been quite impressed with SAA's service. From a lay
person's perspective their planes did not seem in a "terrible state" or
unairworthy (certainly compared to those used in the US). Perhaps their
service records indicate otherwise and maybe someone can dig these up.
Only four SAA planes have crashed with irreparable damage during the
last 40 or so years. The last were the Helderberg 747 in 1986 and a 707
in the late 1960's near Windhoek.
Their onboard economy class service is quite average and perhaps a bit
more friendly than that offered on US carriers. I got the impression
that they do their best to keep everyone comfortable on the long flights
from the US to SA - these are trying under the best of circumstances.
I've only had one bad experience with SAA - getting bumped from
Johannesburg to Atlanta just after New Year. They must have been
overbooked by at least 10%. The person at the check in tried to tell us
that it was a computer glitch but we kicked up enough of a fuss to be
transferred to their customer service desk. It took a little negotiating
to get things straightened out and I had to use my knowledge of their
route network to get alternative flights. In the end they sent us via
Europe, which only added 6hrs, and gave us free tickets at the
international level, valid for a year. They honored these without any
quibbling or complaining. The worst part about this was that the tickets
were actually purchased with Delta airlines, whose representative in
Johannesburg, would have nothing to do with this.
David Collins
Feb 11th 2003, 7:13 pm
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
In article , Marcelo
Bruno writes
Hi Marcelo
>Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
>How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
>Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
Having just returned from a trip to Luanda via Johannesburg, commencing
in London, and all on SAA. We would comment as follows:
The service London to Johannesburg was excellent in economy, food very
good, and service more than acceptable. They use their larger 747/400
series aircraft for long haul flights.
The flight to Luanda was much shorter, and on a much older 747/300
series aircraft, where they appear to allow air crew under training to
'cut their teeth', this makes for a lesser service than on the premier
routes.
We are more than happy to fly SAA again, as we would certainly not be
taking the same route with British Airways. Their service is that you
are treated like walk-on cattle, and should not disturb the cabin crew
one iota!
We are planning our next trip to Angola, and will certainly be booking
with SAA.
Hope that helps.
--
Sue & Jeri Drake
Home Page: Uk Sea Anglers Sharks. http://www.ukshark.co.uk
Bruno writes
Hi Marcelo
>Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent flyer?
>How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety record?
>Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
Having just returned from a trip to Luanda via Johannesburg, commencing
in London, and all on SAA. We would comment as follows:
The service London to Johannesburg was excellent in economy, food very
good, and service more than acceptable. They use their larger 747/400
series aircraft for long haul flights.
The flight to Luanda was much shorter, and on a much older 747/300
series aircraft, where they appear to allow air crew under training to
'cut their teeth', this makes for a lesser service than on the premier
routes.
We are more than happy to fly SAA again, as we would certainly not be
taking the same route with British Airways. Their service is that you
are treated like walk-on cattle, and should not disturb the cabin crew
one iota!
We are planning our next trip to Angola, and will certainly be booking
with SAA.
Hope that helps.
--
Sue & Jeri Drake
Home Page: Uk Sea Anglers Sharks. http://www.ukshark.co.uk
Feb 11th 2003, 8:34 pm
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
"Buster" wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
> Coleman Andrews' influence on safety and service in SAA was generally =
a
> positive one.
But with Mr. Brooks' apparent hate for anything American, he had to =
bring out this point, not so, Peter??
>=20
> SAA has an enviable safety record, and can stand its own by most
> benchmarks.
>=20
> Service reached an all-time low under Coleman's predecessor, Zukile =
Nomvete.
> Since then it has improved markedly, but still has some areas where it =
tends
> to fall behind.
>=20
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Marcelo Bruno" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent =
flyer?
> > > How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety =
record?
> > > Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
> > >
> > You need to read about a chap called Coleman Andrews for a good =
answer to
> > that one - do a search.
> >
> >
> > --
> > I wish that baby Jesus had never been born - Samaritans
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
news:[email protected]...
> Coleman Andrews' influence on safety and service in SAA was generally =
a
> positive one.
But with Mr. Brooks' apparent hate for anything American, he had to =
bring out this point, not so, Peter??
>=20
> SAA has an enviable safety record, and can stand its own by most
> benchmarks.
>=20
> Service reached an all-time low under Coleman's predecessor, Zukile =
Nomvete.
> Since then it has improved markedly, but still has some areas where it =
tends
> to fall behind.
>=20
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Marcelo Bruno" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Is anyone in this newsgroup a South African Airways frequent =
flyer?
> > > How would you rate that airline in terms of service and safety =
record?
> > > Thank you in advance for replying to my message.
> > >
> > You need to read about a chap called Coleman Andrews for a good =
answer to
> > that one - do a search.
> >
> >
> > --
> > I wish that baby Jesus had never been born - Samaritans
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
Feb 12th 2003, 5:09 am
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
"sorites" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
"Buster" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Coleman Andrews' influence on safety and service in SAA was generally a
> positive one.
But with Mr. Brooks' apparent hate for anything American, he had to bring
out this point, not so, Peter??
No need for silly supposition!
Coleman Andrews had a rather malign effect on SAA, certainly the safety was
not improved under his control. I am not particularly interested in making
further comments on the individual which is why I suggested looking up his
record - it is an unhappy but interesting story.
--
Yesterday's chip wrapper is enjoys eternal youth - something denied the
nectar of the gods; tomorrow's free beer.
news:[email protected]...
"Buster" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Coleman Andrews' influence on safety and service in SAA was generally a
> positive one.
But with Mr. Brooks' apparent hate for anything American, he had to bring
out this point, not so, Peter??
No need for silly supposition!
Coleman Andrews had a rather malign effect on SAA, certainly the safety was
not improved under his control. I am not particularly interested in making
further comments on the individual which is why I suggested looking up his
record - it is an unhappy but interesting story.
--
Yesterday's chip wrapper is enjoys eternal youth - something denied the
nectar of the gods; tomorrow's free beer.
Feb 12th 2003, 5:25 am
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
Safety was definitely improved under Mr. Andrews, when compared to his
predecessor. If you are referring to Denis Beckett's book, I discussed the
matter with Mr. Beckett personally, and he was of the same opinion.
Coleman Andrews was a breath of fresh air for SAA in many respects. Mr.
Andrews also had certain shortcomings, but then who does not?
BTW, I have been professionally involved in Aviation for 38 years, and thus
feel that I am able to comment with a fair amount of insight.
"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "sorites" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> "Buster" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Coleman Andrews' influence on safety and service in SAA was generally a
> > positive one.
> But with Mr. Brooks' apparent hate for anything American, he had to bring
> out this point, not so, Peter??
> No need for silly supposition!
> Coleman Andrews had a rather malign effect on SAA, certainly the safety
was
> not improved under his control. I am not particularly interested in making
> further comments on the individual which is why I suggested looking up his
> record - it is an unhappy but interesting story.
> --
> Yesterday's chip wrapper is enjoys eternal youth - something denied the
> nectar of the gods; tomorrow's free beer.
predecessor. If you are referring to Denis Beckett's book, I discussed the
matter with Mr. Beckett personally, and he was of the same opinion.
Coleman Andrews was a breath of fresh air for SAA in many respects. Mr.
Andrews also had certain shortcomings, but then who does not?
BTW, I have been professionally involved in Aviation for 38 years, and thus
feel that I am able to comment with a fair amount of insight.
"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "sorites" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> "Buster" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Coleman Andrews' influence on safety and service in SAA was generally a
> > positive one.
> But with Mr. Brooks' apparent hate for anything American, he had to bring
> out this point, not so, Peter??
> No need for silly supposition!
> Coleman Andrews had a rather malign effect on SAA, certainly the safety
was
> not improved under his control. I am not particularly interested in making
> further comments on the individual which is why I suggested looking up his
> record - it is an unhappy but interesting story.
> --
> Yesterday's chip wrapper is enjoys eternal youth - something denied the
> nectar of the gods; tomorrow's free beer.
Feb 12th 2003, 5:53 am
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
"Buster" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Safety was definitely improved under Mr. Andrews, when compared to his
> predecessor. If you are referring to Denis Beckett's book, I discussed the
> matter with Mr. Beckett personally, and he was of the same opinion.
> Coleman Andrews was a breath of fresh air for SAA in many respects. Mr.
> Andrews also had certain shortcomings, but then who does not?
I'd agree with you that, when he joined he was indeed a breath of fresh
air - that was necessary for the very pre-democratic hidebound company that
it was.
However, I don't think that Coleman Andrews record for safety was enhanced
by him allowing pilots to continue to fly for four months after they had
been shown to have false pilot's licenses
(http://www.mnet.co.za/CarteBlanche/D...ay.asp?Id=1522)
It might also be worth wondering why, after his departure, SAA has spent
over R30,000,000,000 to replace Coleman Andrews' Boeings with Airbuses.
"Coleman Andrews, SAA's former chief executive, claimed in February that
SAA was rated as one of the top airline turnrounds in the past 15 years. At
the time, he said SAA was valued at R8.5bn ($890m). But the airline reported
a headline loss of R735m for the 2000-01 financial year only a few months
after Mr Andrews left." http://www.airlinequality.com/news/saa.htm
The above might also make you pause before taking statements that Mr Andrews
has made as the unvarnished truth.
Maybe you haven't been involved in the right part of the aviation industry.
Finally: http://www.dispatch.co.za/2001/06/30...pe/PARLYDP.HTM
He said it appeared that the SA Airways Airbus 320s currently in use were in
the process of being sold and replaced by 30-year-old Boeing 737s.
"Apparently, there have been near accidents with these planes as there are
problems with the centre of gravity and as a result of this, the planes are
now being flown with ballast in the front. Flight crews have even been
specifically assigned to these Boeing 737 planes."
Heine said the DP had as a result requested transport committee chairman
Jeremy Cronin to call a joint meeting of the committees of transport and
public enterprises, to be briefed by technical personnel from the private
sector and the SAA.
"The whole issue is a consequence of the poor state of affairs and
management at SAA during the reign of Coleman Andrews. What this confirms is
our insistence there must be a full and open investigation by the public
accounts committee into the state of affairs at SAA."
--
"Ecce Edwardus Ursus scalis numc tump-tump-tump occipite gradus pulsante
post Christophorum Robinum descendens. Est quod sciatunus et solus modus
gradibus descendendi,nonnunquam autem sentit, etiam alterum modum estare,
dummodo pulsationibus desinere et de eo modo meditari possit. Deinde censet
alios modos non esse. En, nunc ipse in imo est, vobis ostentari paratus." -
Winnie ille Pu.
news:[email protected]...
> Safety was definitely improved under Mr. Andrews, when compared to his
> predecessor. If you are referring to Denis Beckett's book, I discussed the
> matter with Mr. Beckett personally, and he was of the same opinion.
> Coleman Andrews was a breath of fresh air for SAA in many respects. Mr.
> Andrews also had certain shortcomings, but then who does not?
I'd agree with you that, when he joined he was indeed a breath of fresh
air - that was necessary for the very pre-democratic hidebound company that
it was.
However, I don't think that Coleman Andrews record for safety was enhanced
by him allowing pilots to continue to fly for four months after they had
been shown to have false pilot's licenses
(http://www.mnet.co.za/CarteBlanche/D...ay.asp?Id=1522)
It might also be worth wondering why, after his departure, SAA has spent
over R30,000,000,000 to replace Coleman Andrews' Boeings with Airbuses.
"Coleman Andrews, SAA's former chief executive, claimed in February that
SAA was rated as one of the top airline turnrounds in the past 15 years. At
the time, he said SAA was valued at R8.5bn ($890m). But the airline reported
a headline loss of R735m for the 2000-01 financial year only a few months
after Mr Andrews left." http://www.airlinequality.com/news/saa.htm
The above might also make you pause before taking statements that Mr Andrews
has made as the unvarnished truth.
Maybe you haven't been involved in the right part of the aviation industry.
Finally: http://www.dispatch.co.za/2001/06/30...pe/PARLYDP.HTM
He said it appeared that the SA Airways Airbus 320s currently in use were in
the process of being sold and replaced by 30-year-old Boeing 737s.
"Apparently, there have been near accidents with these planes as there are
problems with the centre of gravity and as a result of this, the planes are
now being flown with ballast in the front. Flight crews have even been
specifically assigned to these Boeing 737 planes."
Heine said the DP had as a result requested transport committee chairman
Jeremy Cronin to call a joint meeting of the committees of transport and
public enterprises, to be briefed by technical personnel from the private
sector and the SAA.
"The whole issue is a consequence of the poor state of affairs and
management at SAA during the reign of Coleman Andrews. What this confirms is
our insistence there must be a full and open investigation by the public
accounts committee into the state of affairs at SAA."
--
"Ecce Edwardus Ursus scalis numc tump-tump-tump occipite gradus pulsante
post Christophorum Robinum descendens. Est quod sciatunus et solus modus
gradibus descendendi,nonnunquam autem sentit, etiam alterum modum estare,
dummodo pulsationibus desinere et de eo modo meditari possit. Deinde censet
alios modos non esse. En, nunc ipse in imo est, vobis ostentari paratus." -
Winnie ille Pu.
Feb 12th 2003, 10:41 am
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Info requested about South African Airways
I agree totally with regards to the licences. I expect this sore to erupt
again shortly if the CAA head is pressurised hard enough in his up-coming
disciplinary enquiry.
This thread was about safety and service levels at SAA. On these points I
stand by my original Assertions.
With regard to aircraft purchases, SAA has almost always been driven to make
'politically correct' choices. Recent decisions have been no different.
"30-year-old Boeing 737s."?? I presume you refer to the design?
Near accidents due to C of G problems? No. Other factors were involved.
"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Buster" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Safety was definitely improved under Mr. Andrews, when compared to his
> > predecessor. If you are referring to Denis Beckett's book, I discussed
the
> > matter with Mr. Beckett personally, and he was of the same opinion.
> >
> > Coleman Andrews was a breath of fresh air for SAA in many respects. Mr.
> > Andrews also had certain shortcomings, but then who does not?
> >
> I'd agree with you that, when he joined he was indeed a breath of fresh
> air - that was necessary for the very pre-democratic hidebound company
that
> it was.
> However, I don't think that Coleman Andrews record for safety was enhanced
> by him allowing pilots to continue to fly for four months after they had
> been shown to have false pilot's licenses
> (http://www.mnet.co.za/CarteBlanche/D...ay.asp?Id=1522)
> It might also be worth wondering why, after his departure, SAA has spent
> over R30,000,000,000 to replace Coleman Andrews' Boeings with Airbuses.
> "Coleman Andrews, SAA's former chief executive, claimed in February that
> SAA was rated as one of the top airline turnrounds in the past 15 years.
At
> the time, he said SAA was valued at R8.5bn ($890m). But the airline
reported
> a headline loss of R735m for the 2000-01 financial year only a few months
> after Mr Andrews left." http://www.airlinequality.com/news/saa.htm
> The above might also make you pause before taking statements that Mr
Andrews
> has made as the unvarnished truth.
> Maybe you haven't been involved in the right part of the aviation
industry.
> Finally: http://www.dispatch.co.za/2001/06/30...pe/PARLYDP.HTM
> He said it appeared that the SA Airways Airbus 320s currently in use were
in
> the process of being sold and replaced by 30-year-old Boeing 737s.
> "Apparently, there have been near accidents with these planes as there are
> problems with the centre of gravity and as a result of this, the planes
are
> now being flown with ballast in the front. Flight crews have even been
> specifically assigned to these Boeing 737 planes."
> Heine said the DP had as a result requested transport committee chairman
> Jeremy Cronin to call a joint meeting of the committees of transport and
> public enterprises, to be briefed by technical personnel from the private
> sector and the SAA.
> "The whole issue is a consequence of the poor state of affairs and
> management at SAA during the reign of Coleman Andrews. What this confirms
is
> our insistence there must be a full and open investigation by the public
> accounts committee into the state of affairs at SAA."
> --
> "Ecce Edwardus Ursus scalis numc tump-tump-tump occipite gradus pulsante
> post Christophorum Robinum descendens. Est quod sciatunus et solus modus
> gradibus descendendi,nonnunquam autem sentit, etiam alterum modum estare,
> dummodo pulsationibus desinere et de eo modo meditari possit. Deinde
censet
> alios modos non esse. En, nunc ipse in imo est, vobis ostentari
paratus." -
> Winnie ille Pu.
again shortly if the CAA head is pressurised hard enough in his up-coming
disciplinary enquiry.
This thread was about safety and service levels at SAA. On these points I
stand by my original Assertions.
With regard to aircraft purchases, SAA has almost always been driven to make
'politically correct' choices. Recent decisions have been no different.
"30-year-old Boeing 737s."?? I presume you refer to the design?
Near accidents due to C of G problems? No. Other factors were involved.
"Peter H.M. Brooks" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Buster" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Safety was definitely improved under Mr. Andrews, when compared to his
> > predecessor. If you are referring to Denis Beckett's book, I discussed
the
> > matter with Mr. Beckett personally, and he was of the same opinion.
> >
> > Coleman Andrews was a breath of fresh air for SAA in many respects. Mr.
> > Andrews also had certain shortcomings, but then who does not?
> >
> I'd agree with you that, when he joined he was indeed a breath of fresh
> air - that was necessary for the very pre-democratic hidebound company
that
> it was.
> However, I don't think that Coleman Andrews record for safety was enhanced
> by him allowing pilots to continue to fly for four months after they had
> been shown to have false pilot's licenses
> (http://www.mnet.co.za/CarteBlanche/D...ay.asp?Id=1522)
> It might also be worth wondering why, after his departure, SAA has spent
> over R30,000,000,000 to replace Coleman Andrews' Boeings with Airbuses.
> "Coleman Andrews, SAA's former chief executive, claimed in February that
> SAA was rated as one of the top airline turnrounds in the past 15 years.
At
> the time, he said SAA was valued at R8.5bn ($890m). But the airline
reported
> a headline loss of R735m for the 2000-01 financial year only a few months
> after Mr Andrews left." http://www.airlinequality.com/news/saa.htm
> The above might also make you pause before taking statements that Mr
Andrews
> has made as the unvarnished truth.
> Maybe you haven't been involved in the right part of the aviation
industry.
> Finally: http://www.dispatch.co.za/2001/06/30...pe/PARLYDP.HTM
> He said it appeared that the SA Airways Airbus 320s currently in use were
in
> the process of being sold and replaced by 30-year-old Boeing 737s.
> "Apparently, there have been near accidents with these planes as there are
> problems with the centre of gravity and as a result of this, the planes
are
> now being flown with ballast in the front. Flight crews have even been
> specifically assigned to these Boeing 737 planes."
> Heine said the DP had as a result requested transport committee chairman
> Jeremy Cronin to call a joint meeting of the committees of transport and
> public enterprises, to be briefed by technical personnel from the private
> sector and the SAA.
> "The whole issue is a consequence of the poor state of affairs and
> management at SAA during the reign of Coleman Andrews. What this confirms
is
> our insistence there must be a full and open investigation by the public
> accounts committee into the state of affairs at SAA."
> --
> "Ecce Edwardus Ursus scalis numc tump-tump-tump occipite gradus pulsante
> post Christophorum Robinum descendens. Est quod sciatunus et solus modus
> gradibus descendendi,nonnunquam autem sentit, etiam alterum modum estare,
> dummodo pulsationibus desinere et de eo modo meditari possit. Deinde
censet
> alios modos non esse. En, nunc ipse in imo est, vobis ostentari
paratus." -
> Winnie ille Pu.