Ninmurai

Hi folks,

I'm interested to know what 'the norm' is like with using titles in Portugal.

In the UK we often don't give a sod about it but some other countries like Germany are often proud and addressing someone by their credentials is part of their everyday language, such as Dr. Baur (whether PhD or medical) or Ing. Baur as an engineer?

I heard in some countries in situations like mortgages use of 'higher' titles confers some interesting benefits such better credit rating and lower rates due to a perceived stability in their profession.

So what's the case in Portugal? Do I call myself and sign documents as "Snr. Ninmurai" or "Eng. Ninmurai" as a qualified engineer? Have you ever seen people's attitudes toward those with titles change after realising they have them?

Please note, as often happens with these conversations, I don't really want to get into arguing whether PhDs or medics have a greater right to call themselves Doctor, I just want to know about day-to-day practicalities!

Cheers,
Ninmurai

RichardHenshall

I believe you need to be registered to be allowed to use the title.

See Ordem dos Engenheiros for details.

Ninmurai

Yeah I'm already registered - "Membro Efectivo", complete with a shiny golden card too!

RichardHenshall

If you've got it, flaunt it.

Ninmurai

There are some limits to how comfortable I feel flaunting it, but if it will knock off a few percentage points from a mortgage, hell yes!

Midgo

Please feel free to use it Senhor Engenheiro, forelock tug and bowed head

I have to say, I blatantly use it as often as I can knowing that there is a good chance I will get better service - I have had many a time with a sea-change from 'Daft let's rip him off Bife' to 'Respected Professional' with the associated change in service etc.

I wouldn't do the same in UK, and I still cringe when they call me Sr Engº back

'Engineer' has a lot of respect here as in Germany - and quite rightly so

Officially you have to have your degrees & Doctorates officially recognised in Portugal, but you don't have to to use the titles. I wasn't aware of the requirement to be in the respective 'Ordem' but that won't stop me.

Dr(a) (as opposed to Doutor(a) which is PhD) are also used just for first degrees (mainly in the social sciences), and also obtain respect.

And if you are in academia, any lecturer is a 'Professor' so you get called 'Prof.' even though the only real Profs are professores catedráticos.

Also, Sr Arquitecto, and apparently it wasn’t that long ago that any school teacher was also Dr(a)

I'm not trying to be disparaging to school teachers (I tried that recently in the UK and failed - total respect to those who manage to do that job under today's conditions)

Anyway, to answer your question- yes use it and yes you will quite often get advantages and yes it is held with respect.

Sign with Engº or Engª after name maybe in brackets with flavour (Engº Naval, Engº Químico, etc)

Some aspects of Portuguese culture make me feel like it's still the 19th Century. Quite civil.

As ever, I know Lisbon, and it might be more so here than out in the sticks or Oop North?

Diddion

So if I wish to have my PhD visible - sometimes useful on a bank card! - it should be ‘Doutor Diddion’ rather than what I see as the abbreviation ‘Dr Diddion’?

Midgo

My information is that if done 'by the book' that is correct, 'Doutor(a)' is PhD, Dr.(a) is social science degree.

But in practice it is written as Dr.(a) for both, and your 'person on the street' won't differentiate and you will get the advantages with either. Dr fits on the card better

Within academia I use 'Doutor' but outside its Dr.
I think officially you can use 'Doutor Engenheiro' too

I had a bad dream once - On the plane with my passport with 'Dr. Sutherland' on it when there was a medical emergency and the classic cry of 'Is there a Doctor on board?' went up. A flight attendant answered by pointing at me, and that's when I woke up in a cold sweat.

Ninmurai

I did a bit of asking around over the weekend, including my landlord's family who are engineers too. If you search for "protocolo Ordem dos Engenheiros" or whatever profession you are, then you can find out some more information.

It seems if you are officially registered with one or more of these professional Ordem they have contracted arrangements with banks for cheaper mortgages, around 0.25-0.5% but as much as 0.7% cheaper interest rate according to this particular agreement: http://www.ordemengenheiros.pt/fotos...tocolo_cca.pdf