Coati

Hi

I understand that a tourist visa will only see us through 90 days/ or 180 days in Portugal.
We are UK citizens of independent means. ie a large box of money but no income haha
Would like to rent for 1 year and can cover costs. So how does one go about being there legally for one year initially; residence permit I guess? So proof of funds, medical Ins, passport etc?

Also, and a little more complicated, we would like to bring our son, and his partner along with 3 kids to give them a one year break from UK chaos.He's a graphic designer and can earn well online. Kids are 1 and 2, and one 13 who can be schooled at home. We love Portugal and travelled through it extensively. My wife and I would be looking to set up permamnently in Portugal.
We have lots of experience in Central America/ Africa so no probs adjusting - except to the UK lol. Target area rural around Portalegre/Castelo Branco - love that side.
thanks, any initial advice welcomed

Cleri

If you are a UK citizen,you don't need a visa to live here.We are part of the EU!
We all have differing views on the residency issue,I had it for the first five years,have done without it for the last 3...personally I don't see any benefit to having it,but that's just my opinion.If you search on here,you will see lots of posts about it.If you did want it,you would only need a passport and a letter from the Junta de Fregusia confirming your address.

Coati

Hi Cleri

Well I here what you say and that should be the case.
Is it then not a problem to stay more than 6 months, all the main sites still say that? I am of the opinion from what I have read here; you cant buy cars, open bank accounts etc etc ; is that all nonesense?

btw, thanks for posting the only reply lol

brodev

simple answer YES

Cleri

We are a main site
Yep it's rubbish.You will need a fiscal number (tax number) which is simple to obtain from the tax office.This enables you to buy everything,including a house,and to open a bank account etc.

Coati

Thanks folks

life got a whole lot easier in 10 mins lol

Cleri

newintavira

Did "life get easier" or did you just decide to join the "under the radar" club?!

For those who want to do things properly the rules are perfectly clear:

"Under EU directives and in compliance with Portuguese law (Lei 37/2006 of 9 August 2006), you may remain in Portugal as a tourist for a maximum of 3 months without having to comply with any formalities.

If you intend to remain in Portugal for a period exceeding 3 months, you must apply to your nearest town hall or immigration office ( Serviço de Estrangeiros de Fronteiras - SEF) for a Registration Certificate (Certificado de Registo), during the 30 days following the three month period. This certificate will be valid for five years from the date of issue, or for your period of intended residence (if this is less than 5 years).

To obtain a registration certificate, you will be required to show your British passport and make a sworn declaration to the effect that you fulfil the conditions of residence. These are:

• that you are working or are self-employed OR
• you have sufficient funds to support yourself and your family (if appropriate) OR
• you are enrolled on a course of study and have sufficient funds to support yourself and your family (if appropriate).

If you are applying for a registration certificate on behalf of a dependant relative, e.g. a child or an elderly relative, you will also be required to produce their passport and documentary evidence of their relationship to you as the main applicant.

EU nationals, who have lived legally in Portugal for a consecutive period of 5 years, may apply to the Immigration authorities for a Certificate of Permanent Residence (Certificado de Residência Permanente).

If you are already resident in Portugal and are the holder of a “residence permit”, you may continue to hold this document until it expires. Thereafter, you should apply to have it replaced, as appropriate, with a registration certificate or certificate of permanent residence."

Source: http://ukinportugal.fco.gov.uk/en/he...istration-cert


With the rules as clear as that it's not really a question of differing views, it's a question of whether you choose to follow the rules or not to bother.

Coati

NewinTavira

Thanks for posting

firstly; I have not decided to join any club; I am just seeking clarification of the reality of the situation. Your post offers clarity on the situation with regard to residency and is a good example of precisely the difficulty faced by people like me who innocently want information. For me getting residency card would be no problem and I had not said otherwise.

My concerns do not l lie with me; we had hoped to help my son and his partner and kids get a one year break from London. He is not a "dependant" he is 25 years old. The legislation at the moment suggests that this noble action will eliminate them from the NHS, make them liable for tax in Portugal (he works online) and other issues. Yet Pl is an EU country in which citizens are supposed to be able to live, move and work freely? I am not saying "we" wont comply but please understand I am simply trying to get the facts.

I am wondering what Cleri's reply if any is going to be to your post?

newintavira

Hi Coati,

I perhaps came across as a little harsh, which wasn't my intention - I am merely ground down by having debated this issue so many times! I really wanted to avoid wading in on this occasion, but it bothered me that the thread appeared to go quiet after it had been suggested that whether to get residency is a case of "differing views."

Sure there are plenty of "differing views" but the facts are perfectly clear. If you are here for more than 3 months and intend to remain, then the rules state that you must register.


re. the NHS - yes, it's sad but true, and even worse, your son will be ineligible for the NHS until he has been back in the UK for six months.

Worse still, he probably won't be able to get a medical card for state cover here until he's registered as self employed and has a social security number.

Income tax is a separate issue. Fiscal residency is not quite the same as physical residency. This is another issue where "differing views" come into play but is, again, actually quite simple in terms of the facts: If he is here for more than 183 days in a calendar year, he is fiscally resident in Portugal and liable to pay tax here on his worldwide income. Dual taxation treaties mean that he won't ever pay twice. As an example, I am the director of a company in the UK and, as yet, UK HMRC still insist that I have a proper UK tax code rather than the NT (no tax) code granted to my wife. As a result I pay still pay UK tax on some of my income, but I do declare it here. The tax paid in the UK is deducted and we pay the difference (yes, our overall income tax liability here is higher).

Getting all this right is stressful and hard work, and it's not helped by the fact some Portuguese government departments seem to take pleasure in making it as hard as possible. We went through hell getting our residency certificate (see here for details: http://www.movingtoportugal.org/2011...y-in-portugal/ )

Once you've read that, you'll come to realise why, after all we went through to comply with our civic responsibilities, we get irritated when others don't bother. This doesn't mean we don't fully agree that some of the rules are poor implementations of EU legislation and/or stupid.

Having done it all, however, it is a very pleasant feeling to know that we are fully paid-up Portuguese residents who have nothing to fear as and when the government decide they need revenue and fine Brits without registration certificates (someone on another forum has confirmed with an official that it is possible to fine people for not having a certificate, though I have heard no reports of this actually happening).

Expats who aren't completing tax returns are also a source of potential rich pickings for the authorities, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of people being fined significantly for this. There are plenty of people (including local accountants) who think it's just a matter of time before a clamp-down begins.

Coati

Hi

Thanks for that, no problem, harsh nah, Im not the sensitive type lol
Incidentally I spent 13 years in Central Africa - beaurocracy/corruption, Portugal are just amateurs at it lol

now wheres my cloaking device.....

Fluffyhead

Boa tarde Coati, like you I've lived a little in Africa (West) and you'll find the longer you live in Portugal that there are similarities here and there.
Anyway, I live in the Portalegre area and you're right, it is lovely. Not only that, in the 4 years we've been here we have had pt lessons supplied (on and off) for free by both Castelo de Vide and Portalegre. Our concelho is Marvão and it was extremely easy to get the first stage temporary 5 year residency, we just had to declare we could support ourselves. We also would not have got the IMI exemption on our house without it although I do know of others in other areas who did get it without residency.
Recently the Spanish police at the border near here asked not only to see our passport but also our residency papers - why? We were driving a pt plated car so what's it to do with them? Still, it was nice to have them.

Coati

Hi Fluffy

Portalegre is indeed very nice

I stayed a fair while in Beseiros Do Cima, hey let me know if you see any BIG houses for rent there!

Went up to the Spainish border there, didnt see a living soul lol
will buy youa beer one day!
Rich

newintavira

Was thinking more about this yesterday, you will also need residency if you want to apply for car finance (or at least we did) and sign up at the doctors (or at least we did)!

Coati

Hi

Thanks, couple more things more for consideration

please feel free to keep info coming everyone