RUFUS HOUND

Hi all, I am trying to get my head around installing solar PV in Portugal

I am led to believe that systems up to 30KW PV can now be fitted without license (for self consumption) but I read there is a connection fee to pay EDP.
Any idea what this fee is and does it entail an EDP employee connecting the system to the grid or does the solar installer do it and we just pay EDP for the privilege of having it done.
Also is there any FIT payment for export to the grid or is it a case of use it or lose it .

John

dingg

Afaiu the feed in tarriff is not worth the expense of tying into the grid these days.

We'll be having a 4.4kw system fitted next week, as long as it powers the pool pump and ashp during the summer I think payback will be quite quick, decided not to bother with battery system.

RUFUS HOUND

thanks for your reply - surely if you dont have batteries you need to tie into the grid (regardless of FIT) as the excess power produced needs to go somewhere?

dingg

Yes it's going to be tied into the cu in the garage, there will be a monitor to show how much we generate any excess we don't use will go to the grid but not measured or any tariffs received.

RUFUS HOUND

What is the fee to tie in to the grid - when we had solar in uk , the installers electrician did it but Im unsure how it operates in Portugal..

One idea you may want to consider is a solar dump - its a unit that measures solar going back into the grid and if it detects any, it will turn on an electric immersion heater to give you hot water.

Can I ask who fitted your system and how much it cost in total as the prices I have seen seem a lot higher than the UK.

liveaboard

EDP keeps calling to try and sell me a system. the price seems quite ok, but there is no feed in tariff. any excess I produce they would get for free.
They offer a lower standing charge for the grid connection as a sweetener; that would make it worthwhile, but then read the fine print, that discount is only for a short time (a year I think).

Their simulation seems to indicate the system would still pay for itself in 5 years, but it seems over simplified to me and I don't have any confidence in it. It seems like a trick.
In daytime, my power use is in short high power bursts as I use my workshop machines. At night when lights and TV is on, I'd have to pay the same as before.

It would probably still be economical, I just don't like the way EDP is going about this. If I pay my money and feed the power to them, I want to be paid for it, at least a little.

If you have something to absorb the power, like an electric car for instance, that would make it all worthwhile.

In the past, contracts were signed promising huge prices for solar power that is fed into the grid, and today huge solar parks are being built (much cheaper than was envisioned when those contracts were signed due to falling PV prices) that will earn a nice profit; that we will pay for out of our power bills.

So even if you have no panels on your roof, you're already paying for solar and wind power, and receiving it down your wires too.
Last I heard, Portugal was producing 60% of electricity with renewables, and that's really very impressive.

dingg

Voltifer fitting it next week 4270e for 4.4kw system.

BillBullock

I agree with you. The EDP offer is not value for money and I rejected it. For my electricity usage in the winter months with night storage heaters, I would need far more panels than EDP were prepared to offer me. If I went with an installation of 12 or more panels to cope with my 6 night storage heaters, what am I going to do with all that spare electricity in the 7 months when I don't need heating in my house? With no feed-in tariff, I don't fancy giving it to the grid. Unless anyone can suggest a solution, I'm inclined to think that PV cells are not for me even though prices for the equipment are apparently coming down.

RUFUS HOUND

I was thinking that during warm season aircon, domestic hot water, pool circulation pump, pool heating and any household electric usage like washing machine/ drier/ fridge/ freezer/ cooker/ hob/ hoover / dishwasher to name a few things. could be powered for free during the day, obviously not all day but a good part of it.

what size PV system are EDP offering and at what cost?

Also PV panels come in various wattages, so you could have less panels with the same equivalent wattage what wattage are your storage heaters (1kw?)
You dont have to get double the panels for winter use as your storage heater will use what solar is available and top up what extra is needed from the grid - so your still saving electricity

RUFUS HOUND

I know giving EDP "free" electricity is a bitter pill to swallow for some but for the system to operate it must go somewhere if your not using it and dont have batteries to store it or you could just turn the system off.

Have a look at solar dump/solar immersion heaters, these could be used for domestic hot water or heating your swimming pool or any other continuous load item,

For me the main reason behind looking into fitting solar PV would be to power the aircon which would be needed when the sun is out, for me its a no brainer but still need to research further.

BillBullock

During the warmer months the pool does not need heating and we do not use air-conditioning in the house. Washing machines, etc do not use much electricity if there are only 2 in the household. Domestic hot water usage is very much reduced in the warmer months; in the summer months our cold water mains supply reaches 28 degrees C because of the ground temperature in the Algarve. Our big electrical load is at night in the winter for the night storage heaters, 4 of which are rated at 2.5 kW. In summary, too many PV panels would be redundant in the warmer months which in my 17 years' experience in the Algarve is April till October, 7 months.

RUFUS HOUND

wow - 28'C cold water supply LOL you need a water chiller

I suppose its all down individual circumstances to what power is used and when and of course personal choice. No point in having it if you cant use most of it.

What are electric prices like in portugal - cheaper or more expensive than uk?

spouse of scouse

An even more bitter pill - the Australian government's considering a proposal to charge people for the excess energy their system sends to the grid.

The number of domestic solar pv systems has increased enormously in Oz over the past decade, due in no small part to generous government subsidies on purchase and installment. The energy companies don't like their drop in revenue, although they're saying their proposal is because their systems can't cope with the amount of energy being exported to the grid during peak summer times. I could swallow no longer being paid for the (considerable) excess energy our system generates, but being charged for it???

BillBullock

When I last checked online, I found a recent comparison chart for electricity prices in Europe and Portugal and UK prices were very similar. Have a look online for comparison of prices now.

Score76

The key to getting solar pv to work here in Portugal is to buy good quality, mono crystalline panels that deal well with the temperatures at the best price, use as much of the power you generate (some clever home automation can help with this) and don't oversize the system.

Whilst the electricity prices are comparable to those in the UK, most Portuguese homes use electricity as their primary heat source, some have pool that need a pump to keep the water clean and if you're out of town then a borehole and cisterna too. So usage is usually higher than UK.

I installed my own 3 phase system with payback at around 3 years, and have installed many other systems since for friends. Edited to remove the touting for business as it is against the rules