Woodstore

We live next door to a parcel of land that we believe the owner is intending to build on. We asked the Camara to advise us if there has been any planning application. The Camara's response is that the Camara is not authorized to give out this information and only to the owners and have advised us to contact the owner. Is this the norm in Portugal or are the Camara not following national rules? In England, neighbouring properties are contacted by the Council to seek any objections etc ie the Council's are transparent and even the local papers announce Public Notices of such planning applications. How does it work in Portugal to raise concerns before any application is approved if the Council is being unhelpful - other than asking the Portuguese owner who may have their own agenda?

wellinever

as far as i know you would have no rights unless you have an insider in the council (usually there are people). If the land has permission to build on then the first you would know is when the builders turn up, although you might see architects and or others checking the measurements well before they submit plans

scot47

Why assume that procedures are the same in Portugal as in Albion ?

Pilotabroad

Exactly as wellinever says.
Here it is deemed that the local authority decides if planning is ok or not, neighbours etc are irrelevant.

macliam

As opposed to the UK where there is the pretence that neighbour's views are considered.
In reality, even rejection by the Parish Council is only advisory and can be ignored. The Local Council can also decide to devolve to the Local Planning Officer with no discussion...... and if permission is granted, only a high court order can challenge it. This was the case in planning permission in my area and explained by my Parish Councillor. Two applications, the first dropped because there was an issue of privacy, the second passed without discussion. No notice of the second application was even posted, just spotted by an objector who informed others.

Plus, of course, even if the Local Council reject an application, it can be overridden by central Government.....

Moses2013

Why be concerned? Just like Spain the regulations are clear and the council set what is allowed. If you live in an urban area where plots of land are available isn't it pretty clear that houses will be built. The people building will have submitted plans that have to meet requirements. Wouldn't you be better off greeting the neighbour's rather than complaining.

Woodstore

Thanks for the replies. The point is the land is rustic/non constructible on the Predial/Land Registry and allows us a fantastic view of the valley from our house. A 2 storey villa plonked on the land would block our views. All I am wanting to understand is does the Camara consult the neighbours in an application process? Seems not. My issue is not the outcome so much as councils obviously decide but on the process of consultation. Clearly the opinion is there is none with the Camara's.

barlaventoexpert

If the land is classified as terreno agricola and is registered as such in the Registro Predial, it is unusual for approval to be given for construction of a dwelling UNLESS there is evidence that there was a building there pre-1951. If the foundations of a previous building are still there, it is quite possible that this might have been the basis for the approval of alvara by the Camara.

I've had a quick look online at the Portuguese & cannot find any cases referring to neighbours being consulted by the Câmara? Have you been to talk to the Deptª do Urbanismo at your Câmara? When we were in the process of buying our property near Torres Vedras we had a meeting with architects there to discuss whether the surrounding land was green belt or zoned for construction. They were very helpful and gave us peace of mind that the land in front of us was zoned to remain green.

I suspect it's a Câmara by Câmara issue but talk to them first!

macliam

Unfortunately, views are the worst reason to purchase a property - there is never any true protection unless all the land is yours. Even then things can change.

When I moved to Suffolk 20-odd years ago, I looked at a house on a peninsula south of Felixstowe. The house was "OK", the view across the estuary was fantastic. The house sold for double the already maxed-out asking price. Since then, Felixstowe docks has expanded and a container park has been built, so now the view across the water is cranes and rusty containers......

Portuguese regulations are more about enforcing building and safety rules and ensuring that construction will not physically impact neighbours (groundwater disruption, drainage, utility supply, etc.) There are regulations about maximum building area, minimum room sizes and proximity to neighbouring plots (more rigourous than England, it seems), so it's horses for courses.

wellinever

Money talks, you could fimd its gonna be a tourist lodge with 20 log cabins!!

coleio

If it is an issue for you then just approach the owner openly and politely and express an interest in buying the rustic?- owners details available of "land registry" listing though may not be up to date.

macliam

Another matter is that, unless they have had the whole "agricultural" plot rezoned, or it was just one field, the owner would have to subdivide it to allow building in just one area. Subdivision isn't normally smiled upon because it further fragments properties and makes both registration (and tax collection) more complex. So definitely worth checking the size of the plot and its status.