ricko

In December I did an online search about gaining residence.
It seems that the process has become easier, and that the following is required:

NIF
passport
address
fee

It seems that now you don't need to show a rental agreement.

However, recently, some people have been given a residence permit lasting only for weeks or
months.
Does anyone have further information about this?

Saz1

We went and got ours on Friday. We needed to take the title deeds to our house, plus an EDP bill, passports, NIF, photo and 15 euros each. It was done and dusted in 15 minutes and we picked up the signed certificates on Monday. They are valid for five years.

mikemike

This process and fees to be repeated every 5 years?

mfesharne

It depends entirely on what passport you have but if one from an EU member state then passport, NIF & some kind of proof of address in Portugal + a few Euros.

You're entitled to 5 years but some Camaras have (wrongly) been issuing 6 months only to UK passport holders & this is currently being looked at by the UK Embassy.

When the initial 5 year Residency is due to expire you make an appointment with SEF & switch to a 10 year permanent residency & then a properly permanent, permanent residency.

mikemike

thanks for this

Red Eric

What's a "properly permanent, permanent residency"?

The permanent resident card for EU citizens is valid for 10 years at a stretch and needs to be renewed at those intervals as it's photo id. There is no other type of residency document for EU citizens and it isn't the authorisation to reside that expires - it's the document (and according to the SEF officer who issued mine, we aren't even obliged to hold one, although I'm sure most of us want to for one reason or another, not least amongst which security and peace of mind. But that's another topic altogether).

We have, of course, yet to discover what (if anything) will replace that document in the event of us actually going through with Brexit.

mfesharne

Damn bureaucrats invented those ridiculous newspeak terms. When the initial 5 year residencia expires, it's replaced by a 10 year card with the words "Cartao De Residencia Permanente" so in other words "Permanent Residency Card" but it's duration of validity is 10 years.................. therefore, despite the name it's not really permanent.

When that one expires they issue a permanent residency card without an expiration date therefore it is properly permanent.

But hey. Don't shoot the messenger. I find the system as utterly ridiculous as you probably do.

That said, I've seen similar & similarly ridiculous systems in several African countries as well so Portugal isn't unique in that regard.

Red Eric

I'm not shooting the messenger - just questioning whether what he's saying is correct. I know the registration requirements have changed from time to time over the years and there's a mix of various incarnations of documents but under the current regime, for EU citizens there is no such thing as this :

It's just the same format card which you apply to get re-issued with an updated photo every 10 years.

mfesharne

It's not the most user friendly site in the world but that's not what the SEF website says nor is it what the SEF officer told me 3 years ago when I changed from the 5 year initial residencia to my 10 year Cartao De Residencia Permanente

Pistolpete2

Good question! The putting forward a RENTAL AGREEMENT bit WAS considered a clincher for us too - if we can ever get the opportunity in a brexit transition period - since NHR does not require residence (other than say one day per annum) once NHR has been granted AND rental agreements can be in respect of a bare-bones property even and still meet those NHR requirements. I accept that seemingly one is only allowed to actually be out of the country for up to six months in any year in order to keep one's PT residency, which will be critical after we leave the EU.

From what I can see, in the EU-wide documents regarding residency, there is only mention of EU passport, MEANS and an address (for contact purposes?) so no proof of a roof over your head when in that EU state. Wasn't sure whether PT was more specific.

mfesharne

One problem is that Portugal often suffers from acute variable bureaucracy syndrome where individual civil servants interpret the rules any way they like but FWIW, there hasn't been an actual requirement (for holders of EU member state passports) to show rental agreement or house deeds for at least 7 years & I'd guess considerably longer.

I've been here 7 years & have helped a fair number of people get their paperwork formalised in that time & with several different Camaras the most recent being 3 separate couples in 2 different Camaras in the last 6 or 8 weeks & none have been required to show lease or house deeds. All they did was show a copy of a bank statement with their Portuguese addresses.

Going back to the 6 month initial residencias, the UK Embassy is looking into this often through social media contact & anyone who has been given less than the 5 years they're currently entitled to can contact the UK Embassy through their Facebook page which is called 'Brits In Portugal' - & I'll add they're VERY helpful indeed.

Red Eric

The SEF website doesn't currently make any mention of the duration of validity of the permanent residence card, no but then neither does it mention any different document that would be issued after the first 10 years. On the other hand the site most definitely mentions a renewal process.

Plenty of other sites explicitly state that it is renewable every 10 years, which is perfectly consistent with other photo id documents such as the Cartão de Cidadão and the passport. In fact it would be highly unusual for a photo id document to be issued with no requirement for regular renewal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfesharne

One problem is that Portugal often suffers from acute variable bureaucracy syndrome where individual civil servants interpret the rules any way they like...

Another is that without certain knowledge of exactly what the rules are, it's difficult to know whether they are being applied within a reasonable degree of tolerance

ricko

Congratulations on getting your residence permit.

However, having to submit your house deeds seems to be another instance of
"variable bureaucracy", as other people have not had to provide proof of
address.

Is there a way of finding out beforehand what one particular office requires
in terms of documentation?

ricko

I see that you have Location: central Portugal.
Do you happen to know if it would be the same in the Coimbra Camara?

AliceCaroline

Do you know anyone who hasn't been asked for any sort of proof of address? Even mfesharne says that even though the people he helped weren't asked for rental contracts or house deeds they were asked to show a bank statement with their Portuguese addresses.

I'd be surprised if it was common practice in any Camara to get a residency document without some sort of proof that you are actually resident in Portugal.

When we got our residency certificates in April we showed them our property tax bill. They did ask to see proof of address.