SimonMicheal

Hi Everyone,

I'm English currently living in Buenos Aires Argentina married to an Argentine wife and 1 year old child.

We are thinking of moving to Faro Portugal because of the increasing cost of living in Argentina.

So my question is if my Non-EU wife and myself move to Portugal can she become a resident because she's married to a British citizen? Will this change with Brexit?

Also if things don't go well with our move to Portugal and we decide to move to England would there be problems, i mean would there be complications with living in Portugal and then moving to England.

The reason i ask is that I've heard of a visa being denied to a couple who lived in Spain and then tried to move to England apparently they thought the wife was just looking for an EU visa.

brodev

I have no idea how Portugal deals with your situation but UK courts have just upheld a minimum income requirement for non EU spouses. See the following link
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017...ropean-spouses

BritInParis

You can currently move to Portugal together under EEA freedom of movement rules. Brexit will very likely have a knock-on effort on your ability to do this but it likely to be two years away so your plan is reasonable for the time being. You refer to the Surinder Singh route - that is still possible but the rules have tightened up considerably and it will almost certainly go when the UK leaves the EU. It is worth lodging an application to see whether you can avoid shelling out for spouse visas if you do want to return to to the UK but don't count on it.

liveaboard

Your wife and child will be able to get residency in Portugal if you can demonstrate sufficient income to support you all.
The amount is fairly reasonable, but I don't know the precise number.
No one knows what Brexit will mean; there's been a lot of speculation but no decisions have been announced.
Get in while you can I say.

mfesharne

I'm no expert but surely he has the right to bring in his wife & child under the reunification of family rules & without having to prove any financial requirements?

He would however need to provide marriage certificate, attestado & the child's birth certificate.

macliam

AFAIK, for a British citizen, getting the non-EU wife into Portugal will do nothing to aid entry to the UK - at best she will get Portuguese residency, not citizenship, before Brexit occurs. Only EU citizens currently have the right to reside - and even this is not permanent.

Given recent publicity of long-term EU spouses of UK citizens being required to jump through hoops to gain permanent right to reside, any "reunification" rules seem not to exist.

Naaling

The Law is here.

http://www.sef.pt/documentos/56/Lei_..._Versao_EN.pdf

The relevant part is Article 7

Article 7
Right of residence for Union citizens and their family

1 - All Union citizens shall have the right of residence in Portuguese territory for
a period of longer than three months if they:
a) Are workers or self-employed persons in the national territory; or
b) Have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members, together
with health insurance, provided the same is required of Portuguese citizens in
their home countries;
c) Are enrolled at a private or public educational establishment, officially
accredited, if they prove by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means
of their choice, that they possess sufficient financial resources for themselves
and their family members, together with a health insurance, if required of
Portuguese citizens in the Member State of which they are nationals;
d) Are family members accompanying or joining a Union citizen who satisfies
the conditions set out in the preceding subparagraphs.

Ukkram

My wife is South African and SEF did not look at our income statements at all. Nor did they bother to even glance at her medical insurance. Seems to depend on the office you go to.

Been to the UK twice without a visa for my wife and despite some trouble, we were let through.

Naaling

Having been through this process myself, I'm confused.

I assume that like us, you had to wait a number of months between handing in the documents and being advised that the residence card was ready. How can you be sure about what they looked at or for how long?

mfesharne

Most likely yet another example of Portuguese 'variable bureaucracy' where an individual civil servant decides to interpret the rules any way they like.

My wife & I are both UK passport holders and recently went to the SEF office to get our 10 year residencia & were there for less than 20 minutes before we were walking out of the door with the cards in our hands & all we had to provide was our fiscal documents, passport photo, copy of passport & €15 each.......... But I've heard of other cases where people have been in there ages and made to jump through all kinds of hoops.

In the case of the O/P I'd have thought he could simply bring his wife & child in under the reunification of family as many others have done previously.

Ukkram

They only took the documents they needed and ignored the medical insurance and the income ones. These got pushed back to us across the counter.
Copies were made and I am sure they were sent to Lisbon for approval.
If so, then Lisbon saw fit to issue the residence card without the medical and income proof.

Naaling

Now I understand.
Your experience was different to mine.
In Setubal they kept all of the documents that we provided. I assumed they would have done the same with you.

mfesharne

#5 here suggests to me that the reunification of family would apply......... but of course, I don't speak fluent legalese.

EUR-Lex - 02004L0038-20110616 - EN - EUR-Lex

Naaling

I just realised that I should have included Clause 2 of Artilce 7, which covers the situation being discussed here.

2 – Family members who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining a Union citizen who satisfies the conditions referred to in the preceding paragraph 1(a), (b) or (c), shall also have the right of residence in Portuguese territory for a period of longer than three months.

Naaling

On reflection, It is possible that the reason for our different experiences is that Ukkram owns a property in Portugal, and I don't.
Did SEF consider that property ownership demonstrated "sufficient resources", without the need for income information?