Ukkram

Just got back from SEF. Hit a stone wall.

No. 1. Got sent to Social Security office for Social Security number. They say she must first have residency. Catch 22 situation.

No. 2. We must have proof of funds in a Portuguese account. WTF we have our pension sent monthly to our Portuguese account. Our money is overseas. They just glanced at our overseas account and handed it back.

No.3. Here is one that will terminate our stay here. We were married in South Africa and have an unabridged marriage certificate in English. Plus our antinuptual marriage contract.
Not good enough. It must be translated from English to Portuguese and apostilled in Finland as I am Finnish and my wife's sponsor here.

not2old

don't give up ... stay calm, be persistent - you'll get there

BTW, next time you get any guff, start speaking in Finnish & ask for a Finnish translator ... its your right as an EU citizen

Suggest you bite the bullet - consider finding a good immigration/settlement lawyer to do the calling, paperwork to hustle the buggers at the SEF

Have you considered looking around when at the SEF if any accountant or lawyer types (suited people) are handling things for folks?

Maybe a local priest who has good English language skills that might help or know someone that does the things you need resolved

mfesharne

Has your wife's visa expired and if not, how much longer is it valid for?

If you can get your renewal or new application in before the old one expires then she can stay whilst it's being considered but if not, then as you said in your original post, you're in the shite.

The translation can almost certainly be done at a PT high commission or embassy but as I told you before, the apostille is unavoidable..... but you should be able to get that done with a quick flight to Finland....... although I'm surprised they don't want it done in SA..... because in the case of my two friends, their wives had/have to return to their home country where the marriage took place to have the apostille done. (I'm assuming you got married in SA?)

If they do want it done in Finland, can you not go to the Finnish high commission in PT and have them do it there for you?

EMR

I do have to laugh sometimes when you see comments from those who do not have any experience of Portugal quoting EU rules and regs.
Portugal joined the EU for one reason only to get as much money as it could from the system.
Everythnig else is regarded as of no importance and PT rules , regs and practices will always take precedent.

not2old

post#19, that makes it one strike against living in Portugal & I'm sure that there are other EU countries that have similar faults

All is not rosy living in Portugal then?

EMR

Portugal can be frustrating but providing you do your homework before you arrive, accept that you are in a Foreign country that does things its way not yours or the way you think it should be done the life can be pretty good.
The first thing to understand about PT rules and regs is that even the Portuguese do not fully understand them which is why so much ends up dependant on the local officials.
One of the first thing we realised was that much of the advice given by" so called " expat experts was worthless.
The first hand experience of those like Mfesharne is worth far more than pages of links to this Eu rule or that Eu rule.

not2old

post #21 ... understood clearly

Ukkram

Strange that if you were living together for over 2 years and can prove it, a marriage certificate is not needed.

mfesharne

Very kind of you to say so.

As has been said, a lot varies from area to area and often from official to official and in the case of immigration (especially), it pays to do your homework first so you get everything right first time and without meaning to criticise the OP, I did try to explain that before he even came to Portugal...... but nevertheless, we all make cock ups and I reckon it's better to try to solve his problems if we possibly can rather than say I told you so etc.

The official language thing is very occasionally a problem. Whilst most officials try their best to be accommodating, you do occasionally come across an awkward SOB in a position of authority (that can happen in any country) but the trick is to smile, nod and then try to circumvent aforementioned the awkward SOB.

I recently came across one of these in the PSP and he really stuffed me up so now I've complained to my MP who is taking it up with the European Commission and I'm also using a lawyer to deal direct with the PSP Commissioner........ the point I'm trying to make is one should try to get things done by being polite etc but if that doesn't work, one should not give up because there's pretty much always a way to get what you want........ you just have to find out what that way is.

Red Eric

Ukkram - sorry about your experience. My own dealings with the Viana SEF have always been very amicable. I assume there were no communication difficulties and that you were able to ask questions etc

Did they give a reason for your wife needing a Social Security number? - it's not mentioned as a requirement anywhere.

Are you sure they said the marriage certificate should be apostilled in Finland? As I understand it, a document can only be apostilled by an authority of the country in which it was issued, which should allow it to be done by the SA Embassy here, if they will (as you suggested earlier) - but not in Finland unless at the Finnish SA Embassy, which seems a bit roundabout and totally unnecessary.

I wouldn't take any notice of the gloating posts if I were you. There's a lot of botox out there Totally unnecessary in my opinion and best kept to threads asking for opinions rather than fact.

You have to start somewhere - official guidance websites from Portugal and the EU are the best places to find out where and with what documents etc. You ought to be able to politely question what you're told if it's not the same - did you?

Someone asked earlier in the thread about suited lawyers etc - I know the Viana SEF doesn't usually have any of those about (very small office, most clients DIYers). There are some resources you might be able to use free of charge - if you want me to post links / contacts for those, I'll look them out for you.

not2old

I understood the message of post 21 clearly - and in fact I agree with your last comment that maybe the OP rather than doing it alone needs some professional help.

Polite generally works for me, trying to get through the 'amanhã outra burocracia' & when it doesn't, I hire the folks that will get it done for me

Trivia: I'd like to make one comment on 'blending in' having to integrate, then I wont relate to it again & move away from this thread

When you live, work, play or are retired in the diverse city of Toronto as we do, with its 43% visible minority, depending where you are at the given point & place - it can be like living in another country in the world. The feel, the experience, the excitement is beyond belief.

Yes, we have little Portugal, Italy, Chinatown, India and others. quite the place to live, except for the extreme weather conditions & cost of living.

I believe the last census there are some 200,000 folks (3.6% of the population) of Portuguese origin all of whom can speak Portuguese living in the city.

mfesharne

As I understand the apostille thing, it has to be done in the country in which the marriage took place and by a Govt official in that country but I'm only going on what I've been told by two couples in two countries (UK & PT) that have had personal experience of it.

Red Eric

You're right by the looks of it mfesharne.

But it doesn't necessarily mean that the application has to be made in person - there are provisions for postal requests or via the Embassy diplomatic bag from the country of residence.

Perhaps the OP ought to check that out if he can ascertain from the SEF that they aren't going to insist on the impossible Finnish apostillation.

mfesharne

Assuming the marriage took place in SA, I'd say the Finnish requirement was a mistake by SEF and it needs to be done in SA........ or with luck, might possibly be able to be done in the SA High Commission and if done there, the PT translation would probably be easier to obtain.

If the marriage took place in Finland then I think it has to be apostilled there but again, perhaps it can be done by the High Commission here and if not, then a trip to Finland probably will be easier/cheaper/more convenient than a trip to RSA.

If it has to be done in RSA itself, I personally wouldn't trust an original document to the post, a courier and I'd think twice about even using the diplomatic bag. - Bloody Africans could manage to lose their own heads if given half a chance! LOL

liveaboard

This is the point; GET AN IMMIGRATION LAWYER!

Officials treat lawyers differently than they treat the public. A lawyer has the ability to politely inform the officer that the officer is mistaken, something we cannot do.

The cost of a lawyer is peanuts compared to the cost of changing your country of residence, or changing your whole life plan. There are plenty of Brazilians and Angolans immigrating into Portugal, and so there are lawyers who know the ropes.

And please; don't let the attitude of immigration officials put you off. They are not the ambassadors of a country, they're the nasty doormen. It's the same in every country I know about, certainly SA, Britain, the US... and probably Finland too.

Application to become an immigration official;
"Do you hate people? Do you enjoy destroying lives? if so, submit this form"

Having said that, the SEF were perfectly nice to me; but I'm white and not from Africa.