wellinever

Is there any idea as to when Brits might be getting these new ID cards?
I appreciate that SEF need photo and other stuff before they can issue them or the Camaras

ouriquejan

Sometime this year? No idea. Registered us both on line - tortuous, but managed it. Even changed our address and passport numbers.

They will, apparently, contact us when they can. And it will be locally too. For us, much better than going to Beja.

Our 10 year residençia runs out next month, but as long as I have the OR number with me, if we get stopped, that should be okay.

EU.flag

There wont be any new info until SEF and Camaras open.
I would expect some news might be out later this month or next.

wellinever

It all seems very odd to me in that the Financas will not accept my 2021 dated SEF proof of residency document (QR code), but will accept me to Financas when I get the Final ID card.(this is what they have told me in face to face meeting)
I dont see the difference as I guess the date on the new card will be the same as the doc I have now, which I need to use as proof of residency.
And of course not having a clue regarding timing means that if I want to travel to UK in May (which I do) I would not be around to go for to the Camara for the photo and biometric collection, and therefore still cannot declare Fiscal residency within 6 months of becoming resident, but they will accept me as Tax resident if I date it last year, then they can tax me for 2020 !! (became resident on 23rd december2020)

dingg

You do realise you do a split year for any tax movement of address anyway?

Ie if you became resident end December submit a return to Portugal for that time till year end, submit return to UK if required for time from 6th April till move to Portugal.

wellinever

Well its simple. I became temp (5yr) resident on 23rd December 2020.
The Financas agent would only accept me a tax resident if I started Tax Residency on the date of my residency (ie 23rd Dec) and then he said that I would then be taxed on worldwide income for the whole of 2020. I dont pay tax in the UK, so have no tax returns from UK.
My accountant, when I mentioned this to her (it was her that told me to request tax residency from the date of my meeting with Financas) said that she had had otehr clients who were told the same, no mention of only being taxed from date of residency. If that had been the case I would have done it there and then and backdated it to 23rd December. But accountant did not mention anything regarding split year either.
It maybe something to do with NHR.
I was classed as a tax resident in Portugal until Nov 2016 (incorrectly), and so in order to enjoy NHR I cannot apply until 5 years are up. In my mind that would be anytime after
November 2021 (one reply said that it must be after end of 2021), but if I got tax residency in December 2020 then I would only have had until end March 2021 to apply for NHR which would be inside the 5 year rule.
Its all very frustrating as it was my old accountant years ago that messed this all up and left me being classed as Tax resident in Portugal, despite not owning any property and without normal residency that had expired in 2010, but the dogmatic Financas, wont accept that..

dingg

You appear to be getting conflicting information from different sources.

When you became resident your tax obligations started in Portugal, not before. Hence the split year rules.

​​​​​Your issues became confusing and complicated with your previous clusterfxxx wrt being resident when you weren't....

Good luck sorting this out. You may need to consider consulting a lawyer or DECENT accountant to sort out the mess.

RichardHenshall

wellinever , my understanding is that you are expected to make a tax declaration for the whole of your first year but that it's in two parts; the first period as a non-resident and the second as a resident (from the appropriate date). NHR, if granted, is always for complete tax years so even if you could get it you would get virtually no benefit in year 1, having arrived in late December.

wellinever

Neither of the accountants that I have paid for advice, mentioned this.
But as I saw it (and them I would suggest) is that in order to be accepted in NHR, you have to be Non Tax resident for the previous 5 years. That appears to be 5 full Tax years Jan -Dec.
Having been classed as Tax resident until Nov 2016, that would mean that I cannot apply for NHR until Jan 2022.
But you can only request NHR status up to the end of March following the year in which you became temp resident.
So if I now start my Tax residency in 2020(december) I had until end of March this year to apply for NHR.
And here I am in April, so am too late.
But as I have not been here for a full 6 months, then despite having a property here (as well as in UK), and only here because of Covid I do not think I yet need to declare Tax residency.
If however I can get the Final ID document, according to the Tax official I spoke with at Financas, I can only showing that document start my Tax residency from the date I meet the Financas.
That would then mean that I start tax residency in 2021, and would have until March 2022 to apply for NHR, which in turn would put me out of the 5 year ruling.
Would this be correct in your assumption and experience? Anyone?

The only issue this gives me is that I will need to wait until the Camara starts to take photos etc for the ID cards, but need to get back to UK for short while (as well as be out of Portugal so as not to fall foul of the 6 months ruling)

Bomber Harris

You are tax resident where you are habitually resident. The "6 month rule" only comes in to play as just one of a number of questions when there is a dispute as to which country you are habitually resident in.
What you seem to be forgetting is that to maintain your "protected rights" residency status you have to spend at least 6 months out of 12 in Portugal which of course immediately answers the "6 month rule" question for tax purposes.
You could of course avoid spending more than 6 months in Portugal (your stated intention) to negate that tax decider question, but doing that would mean you lose your protected residency rights and your time in PT would then be limited by the Schengen 90/180 rule.

RichardHenshall

I understand your motives for seeking a solution such as you propose but I'm not convinced that it will work.

I think you would need to have postponed becoming resident until January 2022 to have left 5 clear years (2017 - 2021 inclusive) since last being considered resident. You would then have had until March 2023 to apply for NHR (which would apply back to Jan 2022).

Having become resident in 2020 (whether or not you can twist that into tax residency beginning in 2021) puts you as resident in one of the 5 years preceding 2021.

wellinever

You are absolutely correct Richard.
My problem was I was in Portugal trying to finalise the paperwork for my house which was actually finished at the end of 2019 !!!
When I asked for a Hab Licence it was refused. !!!
The reason given was that a complaint had been made to the Camara by my neighbour, who said that I should have built a wall between him and me.
Despite trying to tell him that I was building according to the project which did include a brick wall, he nevertheless went ahead and made a formal complaint. That was during 2019 before the house was actually finished.(a real prize dogmatic prat).
And because of that they could not issue a licence without doing a Vistoria on my house...........so that was end 2020.....Suddenly Covid happenend, and the Camara was unable to organise a Vistoria...and due to the situation I had no choice than to take the last flight out of Faro to UK...
Many emails followed from me and the Camara to find out when they could do a Vistoria.......no joy at all, and so I came back in September in order to try to sort it out.
Finally got an Vistoria date of October (so a year later). Vistoria date came, Planners from Camara came ti the house, with plans,,,,looked around the house and garden area and wall, and said yes all fine !! (took no more than 5 mins total)....I asked why this was necessary. Answer, if someone makes a complaint it has to be fully investigated and best way is to do a Vistoria. But I suggested why did you not simply look at the approved project, you would have seen the complaint was unjustified.
So of course 7 days later I received my HL, and that was the first time I could go to the Financas to change from plot to House, and it was registered as a Non resident.
Then next to register the house, more delays due to booking appointment . It was clear that I was going to run out of Brexit time, the paperwork would just not be ready before end of 2020.
I had to stay to clear this all up, and realised that EHIC would expire, and Schengen rules would kick in. So despite not wanting to I became resident on 23rd December.
First week of Jan it was announced that EHIC would remain valid, then in Feb or March it was announced that 90 day ruling would not apply to those stuck here.
So in effect I became resident against my better judgement in 2020 and now unnecessary, at least for the moment.
But yes I appreciated this would cause me a problem if I wanted NHR, but was advised that if I went along and asked for Tax residency now, all would be OK.

I have now all docs in order, and waiting for IMI amount, which will be sent to UK, as still registered with me as a Non Resident at Financas.
But now cannot get back to Uk until at the earliest Mid May.
Only one saving grace in all this is is that a UK driving licence has been allowed until end of the year, so at least I can drive my own car in the UK when I get back.
So all in all a tale of woe, all of which was outside of my control, right from the delay in issuing a HL over a year ago.