British Expats

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-   Portugal (https://britishexpats.com/forum/portugal-89/)
-   -   Moving to Portugal with children (https://britishexpats.com/forum/portugal-89/moving-portugal-children-919405/)

Pilou Jan 23rd 2019 12:34 am

Re: Moving to Portugal with children
 

Originally Posted by treacle38 (Post 12596487)
This is totally wrong, tax on property income and any pension paid by the UK gov is taxable in the UK. Private pensions and any profits on shares etc, will be exempt under NHR, this under the double taxation treaty.

It is not that difficult. Just look at the tax treaty between the UK and Portugal.
Here it is: https://assets.publishing.service.go...-_in_force.pdf
Art 22.

riv Jan 27th 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Moving to Portugal with children
 
I may be wrong but the impression I have of this thread is that the Thread Starter has not as yet even visited Portugal, but has acquired knowledge of it online. Is this the case ? If so then the sooner a holiday visit, perhaps at Easter, so the children can come as well, is essential. A course in the language for beginners needs to be booked.

Depending on how severe the allergy is, then bring epipens or whatever might be needed for an emergency intervention. [ Can the allergy be cured, btw ? Shame to come to Portugal and have to eschew fish on the table ? ]

I am also confused about the financial situation of the Thread Starter. I am not of course seeking to understand her detailed financial situation but there seems to me to be a contrast, to put it mildly, between the four bedroomed fantastic house with pool she is looking to acquire, and the concern expressed in some of the posts as to the cost of international schools.

Then there is the language issue, both for Miisy, and her children.

She does not state what other languages, if any, she or the children speak, and to what extent they found it easy to learn them. She needs to be aware that Portuguese, especially as spoken in Portugal ( as opposed to Brazil ) is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to understand. And I am someone who studied Portuguese at University in England and including an academic year in Lisbon on the Curso para Estrangeiros .

I have few problems understanding French or Italian ( I don't say this to boast but merely to illustrate the contrast with Portuguese ~ I never even studied Italian formally ~just picked it up in the country from a basis of French and Spanish and Latin ~ ) and I can express myself comparatively fluently in Portuguese ~but, v v sadly, i still find it difficult to follow people speaking Portuguese at a normal speed. Even radio announcers reading the news I can't follow it all. ( And I'm trying ! ). The idea of trying to learn Maths or Physics or frankly anything in a Portuguese medium school would be a nightmare.

So barring a miracle of some kind I think the children ( and not just the older one ) would simply be unable to cope in a straightforward, local, Portuguese school. They would be like a non swimmer being pushed in at the deep end of the pool.

All of this leads me to the conclusion that of ALL the many issues raised above, the most important one to sort would be that of schools. All relocation issues have to start and end there : WHICH school/s ?

It would certainly be worth investigating ( and I mean by visiting, having first contacted the schools to arrange this ) the hybrid schools referred to by one of the posters further up this thread. It sounds like they might be affordable, and feasible, with half ( ? ) of the curriculum taught in English and perhaps intensive Portuguese language classes on the side ( if the children are receptive to this ~if not forget it . )

But if these were not suitable then the only recourse would be the international schools with most subjects taught in English. Surely children, esp. the older one, need to visit these places and talk to same age pupils already there to get some idea as to whether they would enjoy the experience ?

So the schools absolutely dictate the location. Of course, rent somewhere for a year, with no thought of buying till all are settled in and the whole project can be seen to be working.

I hope all the above does not come across as 'naysaying' or negativity. I am just saying that the nitty gritty practicalities of schooling, of language, and of finances need to be absolutely clear before setting out.

If I were in anything like Miisy's situation I would do as follows:

Start NOW, in England, attempting to learn Portuguese, with local adult education classes and / or a private tutor, as well as the usual CDs and online courses. It is quite easy now online to listen to Portuguese radio stations ( don't expect to understand more than a few words but at least you will get some sense of what awaits you ) ~my favourite is Rádio Renascença, but there are others. You may find your smart TV has an internet radio app. ~but if not from any web browser you can search radio renascença etc. and when the website is found press the 'No Ar' button.

BOOK IN for the Summer School in Portuguese Language for Foreigners at either Porto or Coimbra Universities ( this requires a month or so's stay in July ) and search also for equivalent courses for children in the area. I don't know of any myself but am guessing they may be available. The children have to see if they could ever get a feel for the language ~and the country, for that matter.

I think that for adults the Summer Schools at the established universities cannot be beaten ( and the fees are low) but others need to recommend compatible beginners' courses for children.

BillBullock Jan 27th 2019 11:12 pm

Re: Moving to Portugal with children
 

Originally Posted by riv (Post 12628491)
I may be wrong but the impression I have of this thread is that the Thread Starter has not as yet even visited Portugal, but has acquired knowledge of it online. Is this the case ? If so then the sooner a holiday visit, perhaps at Easter, so the children can come as well, is essential. A course in the language for beginners needs to be booked.

Depending on how severe the allergy is, then bring epipens or whatever might be needed for an emergency intervention. [ Can the allergy be cured, btw ? Shame to come to Portugal and have to eschew fish on the table ? ]

I am also confused about the financial situation of the Thread Starter. I am not of course seeking to understand her detailed financial situation but there seems to me to be a contrast, to put it mildly, between the four bedroomed fantastic house with pool she is looking to acquire, and the concern expressed in some of the posts as to the cost of international schools.

Then there is the language issue, both for Miisy, and her children.

She does not state what other languages, if any, she or the children speak, and to what extent they found it easy to learn them. She needs to be aware that Portuguese, especially as spoken in Portugal ( as opposed to Brazil ) is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to understand. And I am someone who studied Portuguese at University in England and including an academic year in Lisbon on the Curso para Estrangeiros .

I have few problems understanding French or Italian ( I don't say this to boast but merely to illustrate the contrast with Portuguese ~ I never even studied Italian formally ~just picked it up in the country from a basis of French and Spanish and Latin ~ ) and I can express myself comparatively fluently in Portuguese ~but, v v sadly, i still find it difficult to follow people speaking Portuguese at a normal speed. Even radio announcers reading the news I can't follow it all. ( And I'm trying ! ). The idea of trying to learn Maths or Physics or frankly anything in a Portuguese medium school would be a nightmare.

So barring a miracle of some kind I think the children ( and not just the older one ) would simply be unable to cope in a straightforward, local, Portuguese school. They would be like a non swimmer being pushed in at the deep end of the pool.

All of this leads me to the conclusion that of ALL the many issues raised above, the most important one to sort would be that of schools. All relocation issues have to start and end there : WHICH school/s ?

It would certainly be worth investigating ( and I mean by visiting, having first contacted the schools to arrange this ) the hybrid schools referred to by one of the posters further up this thread. It sounds like they might be affordable, and feasible, with half ( ? ) of the curriculum taught in English and perhaps intensive Portuguese language classes on the side ( if the children are receptive to this ~if not forget it . )

But if these were not suitable then the only recourse would be the international schools with most subjects taught in English. Surely children, esp. the older one, need to visit these places and talk to same age pupils already there to get some idea as to whether they would enjoy the experience ?

So the schools absolutely dictate the location. Of course, rent somewhere for a year, with no thought of buying till all are settled in and the whole project can be seen to be working.

I hope all the above does not come across as 'naysaying' or negativity. I am just saying that the nitty gritty practicalities of schooling, of language, and of finances need to be absolutely clear before setting out.

If I were in anything like Miisy's situation I would do as follows:

Start NOW, in England, attempting to learn Portuguese, with local adult education classes and / or a private tutor, as well as the usual CDs and online courses. It is quite easy now online to listen to Portuguese radio stations ( don't expect to understand more than a few words but at least you will get some sense of what awaits you ) ~my favourite is Rádio Renascença, but there are others. You may find your smart TV has an internet radio app. ~but if not from any web browser you can search radio renascença etc. and when the website is found press the 'No Ar' button.

BOOK IN for the Summer School in Portuguese Language for Foreigners at either Porto or Coimbra Universities ( this requires a month or so's stay in July ) and search also for equivalent courses for children in the area. I don't know of any myself but am guessing they may be available. The children have to see if they could ever get a feel for the language ~and the country, for that matter.

I think that for adults the Summer Schools at the established universities cannot be beaten ( and the fees are low) but others need to recommend compatible beginners' courses for children.

There is so much sense in this post riv. I am always amazed by people who say they plan to move to Portugal but have never even been here for a holiday.

miisy_c Jan 28th 2019 7:28 am

Re: Moving to Portugal with children
 

Originally Posted by riv (Post 12628491)
I may be wrong but the impression I have of this thread is that the Thread Starter has not as yet even visited Portugal, but has acquired knowledge of it online. Is this the case ? If so then the sooner a holiday visit, perhaps at Easter, so the children can come as well, is essential. A course in the language for beginners needs to be booked.

Depending on how severe the allergy is, then bring epipens or whatever might be needed for an emergency intervention. [ Can the allergy be cured, btw ? Shame to come to Portugal and have to eschew fish on the table ? ]

I am also confused about the financial situation of the Thread Starter. I am not of course seeking to understand her detailed financial situation but there seems to me to be a contrast, to put it mildly, between the four bedroomed fantastic house with pool she is looking to acquire, and the concern expressed in some of the posts as to the cost of international schools.

Then there is the language issue, both for Miisy, and her children.

She does not state what other languages, if any, she or the children speak, and to what extent they found it easy to learn them. She needs to be aware that Portuguese, especially as spoken in Portugal ( as opposed to Brazil ) is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to understand. And I am someone who studied Portuguese at University in England and including an academic year in Lisbon on the Curso para Estrangeiros .

I have few problems understanding French or Italian ( I don't say this to boast but merely to illustrate the contrast with Portuguese ~ I never even studied Italian formally ~just picked it up in the country from a basis of French and Spanish and Latin ~ ) and I can express myself comparatively fluently in Portuguese ~but, v v sadly, i still find it difficult to follow people speaking Portuguese at a normal speed. Even radio announcers reading the news I can't follow it all. ( And I'm trying ! ). The idea of trying to learn Maths or Physics or frankly anything in a Portuguese medium school would be a nightmare.

So barring a miracle of some kind I think the children ( and not just the older one ) would simply be unable to cope in a straightforward, local, Portuguese school. They would be like a non swimmer being pushed in at the deep end of the pool.

All of this leads me to the conclusion that of ALL the many issues raised above, the most important one to sort would be that of schools. All relocation issues have to start and end there : WHICH school/s ?

It would certainly be worth investigating ( and I mean by visiting, having first contacted the schools to arrange this ) the hybrid schools referred to by one of the posters further up this thread. It sounds like they might be affordable, and feasible, with half ( ? ) of the curriculum taught in English and perhaps intensive Portuguese language classes on the side ( if the children are receptive to this ~if not forget it . )

But if these were not suitable then the only recourse would be the international schools with most subjects taught in English. Surely children, esp. the older one, need to visit these places and talk to same age pupils already there to get some idea as to whether they would enjoy the experience ?

So the schools absolutely dictate the location. Of course, rent somewhere for a year, with no thought of buying till all are settled in and the whole project can be seen to be working.

I hope all the above does not come across as 'naysaying' or negativity. I am just saying that the nitty gritty practicalities of schooling, of language, and of finances need to be absolutely clear before setting out.

If I were in anything like Miisy's situation I would do as follows:

Start NOW, in England, attempting to learn Portuguese, with local adult education classes and / or a private tutor, as well as the usual CDs and online courses. It is quite easy now online to listen to Portuguese radio stations ( don't expect to understand more than a few words but at least you will get some sense of what awaits you ) ~my favourite is Rádio Renascença, but there are others. You may find your smart TV has an internet radio app. ~but if not from any web browser you can search radio renascença etc. and when the website is found press the 'No Ar' button.

BOOK IN for the Summer School in Portuguese Language for Foreigners at either Porto or Coimbra Universities ( this requires a month or so's stay in July ) and search also for equivalent courses for children in the area. I don't know of any myself but am guessing they may be available. The children have to see if they could ever get a feel for the language ~and the country, for that matter.

I think that for adults the Summer Schools at the established universities cannot be beaten ( and the fees are low) but others need to recommend compatible beginners' courses for children.

Thank you.


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