To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

Hi all,

I’m a UK citizen currently stuck in Vietnam due to covid19 travel restrictions. My normal country of temporary residence is Mongolia because my fiancée is from there. I’m 57 and retired, living off my savings until my US and UK pensions kick in (around (2030). From my reading it seems like it would be best if I (we?) move before December 31st,

But there are a few complications:

1) I’m not sure if we can even fly. Since international flights are limited in and out of Vietnam - most flights are repatriation or internal flights.
2) she’s a Mongolian citizen and she’d need a visa.
3) we’re not married but have been together for 6 years as domestic partners.
4) my inheritance is still in probate in the UK but should be released in a few weeks. This is the money I’ll use to support us before my pensions cut in.

Any advice on how I should proceed? Is it imperative that I establish PT residence before the end of the year?

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

There is the option of a D7 visa. this is something that another poster put up. https://lamarescapela.pt/en/what-is-the-d7-visa/


One of the necessary requirements is proof that the applicant has the minimum income provided for by law to enable him to reside in Portugal for a period of not less than 12 months, such as:*

• 1st adult (applicant): 100% of the current minimum wage (635€) = 7,620€/year;
• 2nd or more adults: 50% of the current minimum wage (318€) = 3,816€/year;
• Children and young people under 18 and over-dependent children: 30% of the current minimum wage (191€) = 2,292€/year.

The procedure consists of two stages: the first with the Portuguese Consulate or Embassy of the country where the applicant resides and the second with the Foreign and Border Services (SEF) in Portugal.

The D7 Visa allows the holder to obtain a residence permit in Portugal for a period of 1 year and can then be renewed for successive periods of 2 years and, after 5 years, the applicant may acquire the permanent residence permit or nationality. Portuguese The minimum stay in Portugal is 6 consecutive months or 8 interim months

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

You can also find answers here:
https://imigrante.sef.pt/en/brexit/f...-cca816ac-c825


Sou a parceira não casada de um nacional do Reino Unido residente em Portugal. Tenciono juntar-me a ele, mas só poderei fazê-lo daqui a quatro anos devido a compromissos laborais no meu país, o Canadá. Poderei juntar-me a ele mesmo depois de o período de transição terminar?
Sim. O Acordo de Saída protege os parceiros que, no fim do período de transição, mantenham uma relação duradoura com um cidadão nacional do Reino Unido mesmo que não estejam a residir com no Estado de acolhimento, no caso em Portugal. Poderá juntar-se ao seu parceiro em Portugal, desde que, quando se mudar, ainda mantenham uma relação duradoura e ele mantenha a residência em Portugal.


I am the unmarried partner of a UK national residing in Portugal. I intend to join him, but I will only be able to do so four years from now due to work commitments in my country, Canada. Will I be able to join him even after the transition period ends?Yes. The Withdrawal Agreement protects partners who, at the end of the transition period, maintain a lasting relationship with a national of the United Kingdom even if they are not living in the host State, in this case in Portugal. You will be able to join your partner in Portugal, provided that, when you move , still have a long-term relationship and they maintain their residence in Portugal.

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

Thanks for your answers @bons and @Moses2013

So, am I to conclude that the ONLY advantage of arriving before the end of 2020 is I wouldn’t need any visa? If I can’t manage it before that then I’d need a D7 visa?

I’ll assume that’s correct. I’m pretty sure I qualify for a D7 but there are few Portugues embassies/consulates in Asia. Certainly none in Mongolia but maybe one in Vietnam but I’m not resident here. I’m a covid refugee haha.

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

And the good news is, as far as I understand it... is that the number of current cases of Covid 19 in Vietnam is small compared to many countries and therefore at least for the present at least... you appear to be in relatively safe place?

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

You are correct. Vietnam has very good numbers in terms of covid19 cases and deaths - just 17 cases in my province and no deaths. I’d say life is pretty normal in Nha Trang where we are, except for international travel. Actually, we only came here from Mongolia for 2 months (on 3 month tourist visas) but we’re now at the 9 month point. The VNese immigration has been allowing us low-cost then free extensions since we can’t get back to Mongolia. Because we don’t have property in Mongolia, we might be able to move to Portugal before we can return to Mongolia. It all depends on the pandemic.

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

Good luck with the plan. I gave up a teaching job starting in May in VN as the lockdown kicked in. Portugal is my Plan B:lol:

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

Hi, and welcome to the forum from me :)

There are various advantages to arriving before the end of 2020 if one has a choice in the matter.

The main ones are a significant reduction in the amount of bureaucracy involved in entering and remaining in the country, the future retention under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement of the rights currently enjoyed by UK citizens for as long as they remain in their EU country of residence, and the recourse to assistance and backup from EU institutions in the face of difficulty in establishing or exercising those rights.

One thing that seems to be being glossed over to some degree is the extent of the impending changes. The whole basis on which residency is acquired shifts from being a right and a mere formality for EU citizens, provided one meets the minimal conditions, to being discretionary for non EU citizens even if one meets rather more onerous minimum requirements. That's not to say it isn't eminently possible, of course - it's just a load of extra hassle which has to be repeated several times to get to the point of "permanent" residence being requested, where currently you just pop in to your local town hall after arrival, pick up a certificate which sees you through the first 5 years and go through a similarly unchallenging process at the SEF when that expires to get yourself officially documented as permanent. And for non EU citizens it means providing exactly the right documents where EU citizens often have no burden of proof to comply with.

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

I'm going to put this into a separate post because it's an issue, or two issues, all their own.

Before I start, I fully endorse the post above with the link to the official source - I'm a big fan of those and frequently post them myself. However, they do occasionally present things in a manner which makes it all look like a piece of cake, where the reality is occasionally a bit grittier. This is in no way intended to alarm or deter - it's just a counterpoint to what has been published there.

The post about unmarried non EU partners - I probably don't need to point out that that version only applies if you got yourself here before 31st December and registered under current (Withdrawal Agreement) provisions.

Here is a very small and very random selection of threads from the past involving EU citizens with non EU partners :
SEF / impossible documents
Family reunification: what is sufficient funds?
SEF documents for (de-facto) partner of Brit

So as you can see, there's some potential frustrations there (even for married couples) which might not strike you at first glance on reading the potted "your rights". And possibly a little more so if you're coming in as a non EU citizen at the outset, with a partner and wanting to apply for family reunion under national (as opposed to EU) law.

Just a word of caution, nothing more. Looking at your history as per your opening post, I'm sure you've had your own experiences with immigration in the past, so you're probably awake to the possibilities already.

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

I’d love to come to Portugal before the end of the year. I hate bureaucracy, especially unnecessary stuff, having dealt with it in Asia. However, it’s one of those things that has to be done.

If I could come to Portugal before the end of the year, flights permitting (unknown at this point), how would I also get my fiancée in with me? My greatest fear is that we’d be apart for an unknown period of time.

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

Great posts Red Eric, as always.

UKadventurer7 Entry to Portugal is regulated by Schengen Code. If you two were to arrive before end of year, this is official info :

https://www.vistos.mne.pt/en/short-s...ee-switzerland

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

https://embassies.info/PortugueseCon...mission%20(HOM).

I hope they will be helpful !

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

Looks to me like the major potential barrier is proof of your relationship and its duration in order for your fiancée to qualify under family reunification provisions.

I don't suppose you've got anything official which might testify to it, have you? There is provision in PT domestic law, for example, for de facto relationships of a duration of 2 or more years to be officially recognised if proven by any legally admissible means - the norm for that proof here appears to be a document emitted by the parish council with statements signed by each of the couple.

Without anything, I don't know how you'd get her in to start with under anything other than a normal Schengen visitor visa. Those limit stays to 90 days in any 180.

It looks as though it is possible to make an application for a non-EU family member visa from within the country (see here ), which would legitimise an extension of stay at least whilst a decision was pending, but again, it's the proof of relationship required that's the big unknown. That particular page makes no mention of uncertified relationships, only marriages and registered partnerships.

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

If your life plan is for you both to move to Portugal, I strongly advise you to get married and [at least the UK partner] get physically into Portugal before the end of 2020.
PT immigration is fairly friendly, but they need proof that your commitment is real; if you don't put your names on a paper together, they hesitate too.

Immigration isn't easy, especially into the "first" world from outside. You'll need to act quickly and decisively.
Get any flight to Europe you can, then get to Portugal from there. Internal flights are still operating.

And consult an Immigration lawyer; the cost will be peanuts compared to your travel expenses.

Re: To move before Dec 31st or not?
 

I don’t think there’s anyway we can provide documents to prove our relationship, except photos. Nobody uses utility bills in your name in Asia and we can’t get a bank account together without being married. We’ve been together 6 years but my name alone is on any rental contacts, I believe.

We probably can’t get married in Vietnam because they also need absurd amounts of paperwork. We were thinking of marrying in Gibraltar since it’s apparently less burdensome on paperwork on residency requirements.