mfesharne

Absolutely no-one can see into the future so no matter what you read or hear & no matter where you read it or who says it................... It can ONLY be speculation because it hasn't happened yet.

Brexit could be either a success or a failure or something in between but whatever it turns out to be, its the democratic decision.

Get used to it because all the complaining in the world won't change the vote that happened 2 years ago. - Not even by one vote.

Shanorme

You don't need to see into the future to know how the WTO operates and to know what 3rd country status means with the EU. You also don't need a crystal ball to know that companies will do business where it suits them to do business.

Democratic? Doesn't that mean people have the right to change their mind? Furthermore, if democracy is such an important issue, why is Leave getting away with cheating? You can't have it both ways. The vote was won by a margin of less than 2% and the overspend was approximately 8%. Doesn't sound like democracy won.

mfesharne

If you feel that way then perhaps you can give me the winning numbers to the forthcoming lottery please?

Actually you need to look up the definition of the word democracy................. The vote has been cast, counted & the decision to leave made................. However, the same democratic process does mean that those who wish to remain have the right (after Brexit is complete) to petition their elected representatives to propose a motion for a rejoin referendum & I'd encourage you to do that if that's how you feel................... Both are how democracy works.

Overspend & cheating? - Remind me how much Cameron spent on sending pro remain brochures to every house in the UK?

If I remember correctly, it was in the region of £9M or so..................

As for the margin of less than 2%.......... the rules state that a majority of just 1 is a deciding majority & the majority was actually 1269501 which is 126950 more than the majority of 1 required so although not immense in percentage terms, it is an immense majority in terms of numbers.

EMR

You mean the leaflet, reflecting UK government policy.
The democratically elected government ...
Spending which broke no rules unlike all sides of the leave campaign,.

Shanorme

To Mfersharne, I suggest you look up how the WTO works (specifically MFN status) and what 3rd country status means according to the EU. It would also help if you got a subscription to the FT, it might help you realise what companies are saying about the repercussions of Brexit and what their contingency plans are.

As far as democracy is concerned, the vote has been cast but that does NOT take away the right for people to change their minds as the facts become clearer.

Overspend yes. I believe Leave have been referred to the police. If Remain have done anything illegal, the same should apply. In fact, it would be an excellent reason for the referendum to be re-run, perhaps this time, with parameters in place if it is intended to be more than a non-binding referendum.

mfesharne

Yes it does take away the right of the people to change their mind about this particular vote.............. The question has been asked, voted on, counted & decided & that's an end to th matter whether you or anyone else likes it or not................. However, as I said previously, people do have the democratic right to call for a rejoin referendum after Brexit is complete.

Again, I suggest you look up the definition of the word democracy because you very obviously don't understand it.

How do you know I don't have a subscription to the FT?

It could be that I simply don't choose to believe anything the media says................ I might possibly believe the date at the top but I'd still check elsewhere. lol!

Shanorme

So you are saying 'democracy' does not include the right to change one's mind? People have to hold the same opinion for evermore regardless of how a situation develops or if people have been lied to or if the 'winners' cheated? Ridiculous!

mfesharne

Sure they have the right to change their minds but they don't have the right to change the vote they made on the day or the decision to leave that resulted from their vote on the day.

You might not like the rules of the day or the rules of British democracy & you're free to look it up but nevertheless they are the rules & the leave vote won the day but (yet again) the remainers are free to call for a rejoin referendum once Brexit is complete.

As for being lied to................ Both sides of the argument lied through their teeth because (yet again) no-one can see into the future & neither side said this, that or the other is a possibility but rather stated speculation as fact but that's politics for you. Everyone had the chance to decide for themselves & vote accordingly (or not) & the majority voted to leave........ But on the subject of lying; How about Project Fear where we were promised WWIII etc? lol!

It's actually quite a simple concept to grasp but for some strange reason the remainers struggle with it.

EMR

Project " fear " hard brexit, food stockpiles , plus haven,t you been posting that we will not knows what us going to happen.
Be prepared to eat " crow ".

Red Eric

Is it safe now?

mfesharne

Nope........ they're still waiting for the sky to fall in but my own opinion is the sun will continue to rise, the tides to flow & the sky to stay where it is............... even after Brexit.

Red Eric

Well that's nice.

I suppose there is still a vague possibility that there might be the odd issue arising which might be of interest or concern to users of the forum. It would be nice in future if we could have a normal conversation which involves an analysis of the actual matter, how much effect it might have and any other information we can share which might be of interest rather than simply re-hashing the "that's democracy, stop grizzling" line or going off at various other tangents.

We're primarily here to share information, I assume, rather than have arguments.

Shanorme

You don't need to be able to look into the future to make reasonable assumptions about what is likely to happen. The EU has consistently set out the approaches the UK could take and each of those approaches has known consequences in terms of trade, tariffs, quota, etc People might not like what those consequences are but it doesn't make them any less likely.

Leave admitted they led their voters "up the garden path". In fact, Aaron Banks said that he and his colleagues were prepared to use “alternative methods” and “lead people up the garden path” in an effort to win the referendum. Arron Banks, who happens to be the founder of the pro-Brexit Leave.EU group, made this admission during questions from MPs investigating “fake news” after concerns that Russia had interfered in the referendum. Journalists had been easy to mislead because “they want to believe some of this stuff”, he added." Well, they certainly managed to dupe people!

I do not consider a referendum where cheating and lying happened to be fair or democratic. I do find it interesting, that you are so desperate to cling onto a tainted referendum result rather than consider the possibility of it being re-run. What are you so scared of?

mfesharne

To analyse something you need hard, factual information and there is none because Brexit hasn't happened so all one can do is speculate & that's exactly what the media are doing but are trying to present that speculation as fact................ Whereas it's just BS.

The only cold hard facts at this point is that the referendum has been held, the votes cast & counted & the majority voted to leave.

Oh and also that May has made a right dog's breakfast of the negotiations. lol!

mfesharne

More speculation............... It hasn't happened yet and until it does, we don't even know what 'it' is other than 'it' is a democratic decision.

Personally, I reckon it's largely smoke & mirrors because all EU law will be adopted into UK law & individually debated & amended from there & I think that'll take decades rather than years so many of us here will probably be dead before we notice any significant changes in our lives.