Cherrypop

Sorry if this has been asked umpteen times, but I can't find a thread using search:

My Portuguese car is insured for any driver but can I legally loan my vehicle to UK visitors or Portuguese residents or can they drive if I'm in the car as well?

I've been told a good deal of conflicting information and an internet search is no better. Some people say only a UK driver can use it if they register their licence with IMTT, others say you need a letter in the car authorising the driver to have your car, and others say it's illegal full stop and could result in a hefty fine and having the car removed.

I'm waiting for a response from my insurers but I suspect they'll simply confirm I'm insured for any driver rather than confirming I can legally let someone else drive.

Anyone know what the law actually is rather than telling me what they think it is?

Thanks.

Red Eric

Sounds like people have been confusing things over the restrictions on the loaning of a foreign-registered car.

A PT registered car can be loaned for driving in Portugal to foreign or PT citizens, residents and non-residents alike. Only PT residents need do anything about the registering of licences, whether or not they're borrowing a car. Good idea to have double-checked with your insurers on the exact requirements from their point of view, though

Cherrypop

Thanks for the reply. My insurers say that I am indeed covered for any driver within their specified parameters but that the legality of allowing another driver to use it rests with GNR. I've emailed my local GNR to try and get it from them direct.

Red Eric, are you able to point me to where you got your info from? I have visitors coming in a few weeks who may well want to use my car. I really don't want any problems if they're stopped for any reason.

mfesharne

I think you'll find a lot of the confusion comes from the halfwitted rule that a resident of Portugal isn't allowed to drive a foreign registered vehicle (in Portugal) that has not begun the process of matriculation.

I haven't taken a close look at modern UK driving licences but I think if you look at one it says it's valid throughout the EU as opposed to just the UK?

Which would suggest to me that if the PT insurance company say the car is covered for any driver including UK licence holders & the UK licence says it's valid throughout the UK then surely it's legal?

Cherrypop

I don't think it's an issue with the drivers licence, but an issue with the owner of the vehicle. Hence some people insisting that you get around this by having a document in the car saying that the named person has your permission to drive it. This is why I seek clarification that can be supported by evidence rather than hearsay. I might just have to go to my local GNR in person and ask them face to face.

Regarding UK licences, are you aware that once registered as a Portuguese resident you have to either get a PT licence or (as I have done) register your UK licence with IMTT? Therefore, as a PT resident, your UK licence doesn't allow you to drive here.

mfesharne

So why not just print such a document, sign it & leave it in the car just in case?

I'll have to disagree with you about a UK licence registered here. If what you suggest were the case, why would you need to register it because following your logic, one would be registering to invalidate one's own licence.

Red Eric

Presumably your insurers are referring to the possibility that the person might be ineligible to drive in Portugal for some reason but provided they are OK (ie of the correct min age and not banned) and that they have with them all the correct documents both for themselves and the car, there wouldn't be any problem.

There isn't a law I can point you to which specifically states this but there is no law that states that only the registered owner of a car can drive it - and indeed the Código da Estrada makes it clear that a car can be driven by somebody else when it lists the chain of who is responsible for any fine incurred. The only law on restrictions is the one I mentioned above about foreign-registered cars (and that is an EU-wide rule rather than specifically a PT rule, by the way).

Here is one article which confirms this : Conduzir carros emprestados dá multa?

There are other places where it is discussed if you do a search.

gedscottish

It's an EU wide rule that one, not just in PT, I had same problem when I wanted a friend in UK to bring a PT car over from UK for me.

To the OP, definitely can lend your car to a foreign non resident.

mfesharne

One simply has to ask FFS WHY?

Honestly, what is the point of that other than to make people's life difficult for no good reason.................. Bureaucrats really do deserve to have a bounty on their heads!

Red Eric

I know this is a bit off the original topic, so apologies to the OP but as it's come up :

The actual rule on the driving / loaning etc of foreign-plated cars is as follows :
Car registration in another EU country

I'm not sure in what way that appears designed to make peoples' lives difficult. Seems quite admirably flexible in allowing a vehicle to be temporarily admitted for the personal use of the owner, his friends or family (unaccompanied) and any resident of the country provided the owner is in the car at the time.

I imagine it's designed to prevent abuse and to ensure that cars are registered in the country where they're kept, otherwise you'd have people buying cars where all the taxes are lowest and not bothering to re-register them at all.

mfesharne

I don't follow your logic at all there I'm afraid.

As I see it, if I own the car & it's insured for any driver I think I should be allowed to decide who can drive it within the bounds of licencing. If the person I want to lend it to has a licence for that class of vehicle & the licence is valid in this country I reckon it's unreasonable for some bureaucrat to dream up a rule telling me who can/cannot drive it.

To me, it's pointless bureaucracy simply for the sake of bureaucracy.

Red Eric

I'm not sure why you appear to be seeing it as a licence issue where to me it is clearly a vehicle one. You can use your licence wherever but there are restrictions or conditions on the vehicles you can drive in your country of residence. Outside of your country of residence, you can drive any vehicle provided you have a licence for that category.

mfesharne

I still don't see your logic.

As I see it, if someone has a valid licence that's recognised here, I should be able to lend my car to anyone I like no matter where there from & if I'm not, then that's pointless bureaucratic Big Brother interference.

Unless of course, we're talking at cross purposes?

I'm referring to the original question from the OP which said: " My Portuguese car is insured for any driver but can I legally loan my vehicle to UK visitors or Portuguese residents or can they drive if I'm in the car as well? "

Whilst you're referring to " a vehicle to be temporarily admitted"

Red Eric

The OP's original question - about loaning a PT registered car - has been answered.

There is a separate strand about the loaning of a foreign-plated car to PT residents, which is the one I was pursuing. I thought you were aware of that, since it was gedscottish's response to your raising of the matter to which you replied - and I was in turn replying to that response of yours.

Hope that clears the matter up.

mfesharne

Ah so we were at cross purposes.............. I might have missed Ged's reply.