Land Grab in Reverse
Apr 19th 2018, 11:53 am
#1
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 98
Land Grab in Reverse
Hi,
This is a bit of land grab in reverse ie owners seeking (obviously in an official way) to obtain land which is seemingly 'unregistered'. I'm asking if anyone has had experience with the Land Registry on what logic they take to resolve this type of situation.
Our house in Faro backs onto a plot and has just come up for sale. What we actually measured was a larger plot of 700m2 for sale except the sellers Land Registry size is documented as 600m2 ie 100m2 smaller. Though this 100m2 shortfall looks to belong to this neighbour, it could belong to our second neighbour that also butts onto our boundary except again their Land Registry size states a smaller plot too. So I don't really know who this 100m2 belongs to. Both neighbours have had their totally neglected plots for over 40 years and don't ever talk (family feud).
So the first Q. As the seller has only just registered their plot at 600m2 and their 40+ yr purchase agreement has no mention of size plot they bought, who or what paper work today determines what the plot size is today? Where does the LR get sizing as 600m2 from without going on site? If we know this we might challenge therefore that source.
The second Q. What logic do the LR take to resolve boundaries if in a grouping of plot sizes, the whole is bigger than the individual registered Land Registry plots? I definitely want that 100m2 to be part of the transaction though either neighbour cannot (legally?) say it's theirs as their sizing in their LR docs doesn't allow it. So why should I pay either of them for this extra plot? Going forward, I know that the Land Registry dept have special surveyors to resolve boundary issues for the process of placing white boundary markers and as yet have not been instructed (to be done).
The third Q. So if the extra plot is not legally not anyones, do I just make a claim (as the gold diggers did in the wild west - first come first served - sound very risky!) to the Council/LR and is there a cost?
Any experience or enlightenment would be v helpful before we go head first into the Land Registry voyage of discovery.
This is a bit of land grab in reverse ie owners seeking (obviously in an official way) to obtain land which is seemingly 'unregistered'. I'm asking if anyone has had experience with the Land Registry on what logic they take to resolve this type of situation.
Our house in Faro backs onto a plot and has just come up for sale. What we actually measured was a larger plot of 700m2 for sale except the sellers Land Registry size is documented as 600m2 ie 100m2 smaller. Though this 100m2 shortfall looks to belong to this neighbour, it could belong to our second neighbour that also butts onto our boundary except again their Land Registry size states a smaller plot too. So I don't really know who this 100m2 belongs to. Both neighbours have had their totally neglected plots for over 40 years and don't ever talk (family feud).
So the first Q. As the seller has only just registered their plot at 600m2 and their 40+ yr purchase agreement has no mention of size plot they bought, who or what paper work today determines what the plot size is today? Where does the LR get sizing as 600m2 from without going on site? If we know this we might challenge therefore that source.
The second Q. What logic do the LR take to resolve boundaries if in a grouping of plot sizes, the whole is bigger than the individual registered Land Registry plots? I definitely want that 100m2 to be part of the transaction though either neighbour cannot (legally?) say it's theirs as their sizing in their LR docs doesn't allow it. So why should I pay either of them for this extra plot? Going forward, I know that the Land Registry dept have special surveyors to resolve boundary issues for the process of placing white boundary markers and as yet have not been instructed (to be done).
The third Q. So if the extra plot is not legally not anyones, do I just make a claim (as the gold diggers did in the wild west - first come first served - sound very risky!) to the Council/LR and is there a cost?
Any experience or enlightenment would be v helpful before we go head first into the Land Registry voyage of discovery.
Apr 19th 2018, 9:42 pm
#2
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 657
Re: Land Grab in Reverse
A lot of the time the 'old' measurements shown on the deeds are incorrect and if there is any doubt then the owner needs to get an up to date 'topographic survey' done with modern equipment to check exact size. If the independent engineer doing the survey is licenced then they will take his word for it and merely adjust the deed accordingly.
There is a chief surveyor inside the council who will adjudicate in the event of any dispute. The Portuguese pretend they are not worried but if you move a fence or a boundary they will react straight away - its unlikely that someone with less than 40 years ownership of an adjacent property will get the better of them.
If you mark out and fence what seems to be an unclaimed plot and follow the procedure which includes advertising your intent in the newspaper and then waiting for a vast number of years then one day it becomes yours. Your lawyer will give you better advise on the exact process in your particular area.
There is a chief surveyor inside the council who will adjudicate in the event of any dispute. The Portuguese pretend they are not worried but if you move a fence or a boundary they will react straight away - its unlikely that someone with less than 40 years ownership of an adjacent property will get the better of them.
If you mark out and fence what seems to be an unclaimed plot and follow the procedure which includes advertising your intent in the newspaper and then waiting for a vast number of years then one day it becomes yours. Your lawyer will give you better advise on the exact process in your particular area.
Apr 19th 2018, 10:53 pm
#3
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,033
Re: Land Grab in Reverse
I had an irate neighbor fuming and gesticulating when I bumped a marking stone with my tractor.
Actually, it had been completely lost in the brambles and cane that I was clearing.
He said he would hire a surveyor to check the exact position of the stone and make me pay the bill, and was generally unpleasant, especially considering it was the first time I'd even met him.
He's Swiss; we now call that spot the Swiss border. I was thinking of putting up some little flags or something.
Actually, it had been completely lost in the brambles and cane that I was clearing.
He said he would hire a surveyor to check the exact position of the stone and make me pay the bill, and was generally unpleasant, especially considering it was the first time I'd even met him.
He's Swiss; we now call that spot the Swiss border. I was thinking of putting up some little flags or something.
